Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

Polar101 · 29-08-2020 11:31AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Alot of them were very sick people and it wasnt Covid that killed them

"We shot 100 people today, a lot of them were very sick and it wasn't the bullets that killed them",

That's how the "they would've died anyway" talk sounds like. Completely inhuman. Sorry, but I just don't think it's acceptable to categorise deaths like that.

MerlinSouthDub · 29-08-2020 11:46AM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Surely the other way around is the concern, having people think they dont have covid when they do.

Both are a concern. Large numbers of false positive tests would cause havoc, with huge numbers of people needing to isolate unnecessarily while they wait for a proper test.

Kris74 · 29-08-2020 11:55AM

I’m a bit confused ...In Dublin on a rare visit this morning around Docklands ...Large group of Italian teens ,approx 15-18 yrs,maybe 30 of them with ? 4 adults walking into city Centre .A school group I would guess ..How is this allowed ( but perhaps I’m missing something) I doubt they’ve been quarantining for 2 weeks ðŸ€”

Martina1991 · 29-08-2020 11:55AM

Drumpot wrote: »

If a person has access to tests for $1 they can test themselves multiple times to be sure.

If I’m asymptomatic, I don’t know any better and take no extra precautions. If I test myself daily, I will not get a test that is wrong every time (in theory it’s correct at least 4 out of 5 times) and thus will have an accurate diagnosis by virtue of amount of tests.

If people had to do repeated tests on a daily basis 'just to be sure' then the test is useless.

When it comes to preventing the spread of a dangerous virus, tests should not be treated like toys.

In a lab, you run quality controls before you run patient samples. If the controls don't work, you troubleshoot, calibrate and find out what the problem is before you run patient samples.

We don't keep running controls until they eventually give the result you want.

ACitizenErased · 29-08-2020 11:56AM

Kris74 wrote: »

I’m a bit confused ...In Dublin on a rare visit this morning around Docklands ...Large group of Italian teens ,approx 15-18 yrs,maybe 30 of them with ? 4 adults walking into city Centre .A school group I would guess ..How is this allowed ( but perhaps I’m missing something) I doubt they’ve been quarantining for 2 weeks ðŸ€”

Italys on the green list

GooglePlus · 29-08-2020 11:56AM

Kris74 wrote: »

I’m a bit confused ...In Dublin on a rare visit this morning around Docklands ...Large group of Italian teens ,approx 15-18 yrs,maybe 30 of them with ? 4 adults walking into city Centre .A school group I would guess ..How is this allowed ( but perhaps I’m missing something) I doubt they’ve been quarantining for 2 weeks ðŸ€”

Isn't Italy on our green list?

normanoffside · 29-08-2020 11:58AM

Kris74 wrote: »

I’m a bit confused ...In Dublin on a rare visit this morning around Docklands ...Large group of Italian teens ,approx 15-18 yrs,maybe 30 of them with ? 4 adults walking into city Centre .A school group I would guess ..How is this allowed ( but perhaps I’m missing something) I doubt they’ve been quarantining for 2 weeks &#55356;&#56340;

Firstly, nobody has to quarantine' You are advised to 'restrict your movements' for 2 weeks if coming in from a country not on the green list.

Secondly, you shouldn't assume things.

Thirdly Italians aren't advised to restrict their movements, Italy is a Green list country.

normanoffside · 29-08-2020 12:00PM

I really fear for foreign students in Ireland this year.
They are going to be the butt of xenophobia and ignorance.

Everyone will just assume they came over yesterday.

mloc123 · 29-08-2020 12:06PM

Do we get beer at the weekend?

bb1234567 · 29-08-2020 12:11PM

normanoffside wrote: »

I really fear for foreign students in Ireland this year.
They are going to be the butt of xenophobia and ignorance.

Everyone will just assume they came over yesterday.

Yeh I couldn't believe how quickly a lot of people I know lept to conclusions about strangers just because of their accent/language or the fact they were with other foreign people socialising, giving out about tourists being let into the country during lockdown...As if they've completely forgotten about the fact that non-irish people also permanently reside here and they probably know dozens of them personally themselves.

Hysteria went to some people's heads I think

Santy2015 · 29-08-2020 12:13PM

Wonder how many beers there will be today...

Drumpot · 29-08-2020 12:19PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

If people had to do repeated tests on a daily basis 'just to be sure' then the test is useless.

When it comes to preventing the spread of a dangerous virus, tests should not be treated like toys.

In a lab, you run quality controls before you run patient samples. If the controls don't work, you troubleshoot, calibrate and find out what the problem is before you run patient samples.

We don't keep running controls until they eventually give the result you want.

It’s not next to useless unless you take an all or nothing approach to combating this. People don’t need to do repeated tests, the majority are Accurate. You only need to do a test again any day if it’s positive to be doubly sure.

It’s not treating tests like toys, it’s treating them as a tool to reduce the spread. If we can create a test that’s 100% accurate and cheap then fine. But In the absence of better alternatives (just wing it and hope we catch enough from obvious cases and contact trace) it’s a decent interim solution. We don’t know where asymptomatic cases are right now, we can guess but we don’t know. If this even helps us spot 80% of Asymptomatic cases it’s a huge plus.

It’s not perfect but even if we test every person coming into the country we know 4 out of 5 travellers infection rate. Not everybody needs to do the test, mostly people in high risk settings or where they interact with a lot of people.

Think of it like a war and you have the choice of a radar that will show you where 80% of your enemy is at any one time. Your alternative is no radar and you only see the enemy when they have attacked one of your soldiers. Which option do you think is better?

Happydays2020 · 29-08-2020 12:23PM

Good article be Fergal Bowers https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0829/1161909-covid-19-lottery/

He covers a lot in this, but is very pointed in his criticism of the Current Minister without naming him.

“The worst thing to do is to tell people that Ireland is doing okay but in the next breath, say the country is lurching towards another lockdown. That will just lose people. It’s also dangerous.”

jackboy · 29-08-2020 12:25PM

Drumpot wrote: »

It’s not next to useless unless you take an all or nothing approach to combating this. People don’t need to do repeated tests, the majority are Accurate. You only need to do a test again any day if it’s positive to be doubly sure.

Surely a repeat test for a negative result would be more important, to prevent positive cases carrying on as normal.

ElTel · 29-08-2020 12:27PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

A test with 80% accuracy would be worse than useless. It would lead to hundred of thousands of people thinking they have Covid, when they don't.

Clear messaging is important. They should be considered a screening tool.
Turnaround time from symptom onset to test result is massive for reducing R. The implications for contact testing, etc.

The Cycle Threshold number in PCR is what determines a pos or neg result and the prevalence of Covid19 in society factors into the test's worth. (See the last few minutes of the 17minute link.) I'm not sure if Doctors even get this number with a positive confirmation.

I found these helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Sv_pS8MgQ&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_usIkrVQwE

This link that has been posted before allows you to plug in numbers to understand how to interpret test results.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1808

Drumpot · 29-08-2020 12:30PM

jackboy wrote: »

Surely a repeat test for a negative result would be more important, to prevent positive cases carrying on as normal.

If you are testing daily 4 out of 5 days you are clear. Even if you test yourself the day you have the virus and get a negative, the next day when you test again you will get a correct result.

Right now our only way of finding asymptomatic cases is mostly by random testing or contact tracing. We don’t know how many people have been infected or are infected. We are fighting this blind and making best guesses. Any tool that improves our knowledge on the virus helps our responses and reactions. Also helps us understand it more.

s1ippy · 29-08-2020 12:53PM

It doesn't help that they're not regarding entire classrooms as close contacts if a case is confirmed in them and everybody has to go about their business as normal until they're determined as at-risk by the HSE. It seems as though they know they won't have the capacity to test everyone who needs it in the coming weeks so they're preemptively limiting the number against medical sense. Just like how you needed to have travelled abroad for a test the first months of this, that turned out great.

Drumpot · 29-08-2020 12:54PM

ElTel wrote: »

Clear messaging is important. They should be considered a screening tool.
Turnaround time from symptom onset to test result is massive for reducing R. The implications for contact testing, etc.

The Cycle Threshold number in PCR is what determines a pos or neg result and the prevalence of Covid19 in society factors into the test's worth. (See the last few minutes of the 17minute link.) I'm not sure if Doctors even get this number with a positive confirmation.

I found these helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Sv_pS8MgQ&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_usIkrVQwE

This link that has been posted before allows you to plug in numbers to understand how to interpret test results.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1808

Ah medcram, one of the most reliable and informative sources I’ve used since January (it’s where I heard about the $1 dollar paper test which gives result in 10’ mins!). I wish everybody watched it. Quite often I see stuff on that channel that’s only mentioned months later by the mainstream media and governments. Shows the difference between a source that’s just about the facts versus sources that have alternative motives in the information they supply and when they supply it.

Away With The Fairies · 29-08-2020 12:56PM

s1ippy wrote: »

It doesn't help that they're not regarding entire classrooms as close contacts if a case is confirmed in them and everybody has to go about their business as normal until they're determined as at-risk by the HSE. It seems as though they know they won't have the capacity to test everyone who needs it in the coming weeks so they're preemptively limiting the number against medical sense. Just like how you needed to have travelled abroad for a test the first months of this, that turned out great.

It's criminal what the HSE is getting away with.

beaz2018 · 29-08-2020 01:00PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Good article be Fergal Bowers https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0829/1161909-covid-19-lottery/

He covers a lot in this, but is very pointed in his criticism of the Current Minister without naming him.

“The worst thing to do is to tell people that Ireland is doing okay but in the next breath, say the country is lurching towards another lockdown. That will just lose people. It’s also dangerous.”

Good article. Haha

He talks about facts being important but didn’t mention the zero recent deaths and very low deaths in recent weeks.

“2020 is a lost year” nice how this has changed from “summer 2020 is lost” in recent weeks

fr336 · 29-08-2020 01:25PM

What is going on in france!

niallo27 · 29-08-2020 01:26PM

fr336 wrote: »

What is going on in france!

**** all, they are living away as normal as they can.

ExMachina1000 · 29-08-2020 01:28PM

fr336 wrote: »

What is going on in france!

No sense of social cohesion. Population is too diverse. Too many don't see themselves as French so will not follow government guidelines. They resent the government. Virus spread gaining pace

gral6 · 29-08-2020 01:32PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

No sense of social cohesion. Population is too diverse. Too many don't see themselves as French so will not follow government guidelines. They resent the government. Virus spread gaining pace

Herd immunity is the only way out. The lockdown just kicks the can down the road.
Sweden & Belarus have proved it.

Away With The Fairies · 29-08-2020 01:34PM

gral6 wrote: »

Herd immunity is the only way out. The lockdown just kicks the can down the road.
Sweden & Belarus have proved it.

Herd immunity won't work with reinfection.

xhomelezz · 29-08-2020 01:35PM

gral6 wrote: »

Herd immunity is the only way out. The lockdown just kicks the can down the road.
Sweden & Belarus have proved it.

Herd immunity, yeah right..in 50 years

froog · 29-08-2020 01:37PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Herd immunity won't work with reinfection.

from what i can gather reinfection is extremely rare.

29-08-2020 01:40PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

No sense of social cohesion. Population is too diverse. Too many don't see themselves as French so will not follow government guidelines. They resent the government. Virus spread gaining pace

Impressive, managed to transform that into some racist speculation.... Thing is they're not viewed as the reason.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Why-France-s-coronavirus-cases-are-increasing

Micky 32 · 29-08-2020 01:40PM

froog wrote: »

from what i can gather reinfection is extremely rare.

Exactly!

gral6 · 29-08-2020 01:43PM

xhomelezz wrote: »

Herd immunity, yeah right..in 50 years

You can hide in your underground bunker till then.

Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

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