Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

ixoy · 27-08-2020 09:53AM

average_runner wrote: »

There is a big difference between Sweden and Ireland. The Swedish people listen and follows advice, the Irish will go against all advice.

Against all advice? What makes you say that given there's pretty damn high compliance with masks, international travel, etc. You can't use a few small protests as evidence either, given many countries have experienced them.

average_runner · 27-08-2020 10:24AM

Deleted User wrote: »

This gets mentioned again and again but it is not true. We are not some country of degenerates.

The airport is empty because people were asked not to go abroad.
Most people have made some effort to obey the restrictions. (Even though some of them have been ridiculous.)

On this very thread we have been accused repeatedly of only wanting a few pints. Most of the issues raised are nothing to do with alcohol.

Alot of this country is full of degenerates. All you had to do is walk around and see the stupidity of people since last March. Before we enter lockdown, there was a call not to social gather, that weekend I give you temple bar as an example.

Another example, parents allowing gangs of teenagers hanging out of each other.

List can go on and on and on. As an nation we are not the brightest people in the world.

Poorside · 27-08-2020 10:30AM

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of this country is full of degenerates. All you had to do is walk around and see the stupidity of people since last March. Before we enter lockdown, there was a call not to social gather, that weekend I give you temple bar as an example.

The bar where no self respecting Irish person would go when other bars are open?
Think that's an own goal.

average_runner · 27-08-2020 10:43AM

Poorside wrote: »

The bar where no self respecting Irish person would go when other bars are open?
Think that's an own goal.

Alot of Irish go there, Temple Bar is full in the middle of winter when not mant tourists around.

But it wasn't the only area full, Camden Street, Ranelagh etc.

Some good pubs shut themselves down before that night.

dalyboy · 27-08-2020 10:44AM

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of this country is full of degenerates. All you had to do is walk around and see the stupidity of people since last March. Before we enter lockdown, there was a call not to social gather, that weekend I give you temple bar as an example.

Another example, parents allowing gangs of teenagers hanging out of each other.

List can go on and on and on. As an nation we are not the brightest people in the world.

the people in the temple bar pubs were 90% non-Irish.
I doubt these “gangs” are exclusive to Ireland

27-08-2020 10:44AM

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of this country is full of degenerates. All you had to do is walk around and see the stupidity of people since last March. Before we enter lockdown, there was a call not to social gather, that weekend I give you temple bar as an example.

Another example, parents allowing gangs of teenagers hanging out of each other.

List can go on and on and on. As an nation we are not the brightest people in the world.

I do appreciate that we have our problems.

But I don't think it is fair to paint other European countries as stand up, law abiding citizens and the Irish as a group of degenerates.

average_runner · 27-08-2020 10:48AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I do appreciate that we have our problems.

But I don't think it is fair to paint other European countries as stand up, law abiding citizens and the Irish as a group of degenerates.

Look at reports of parents outside kids school on the other thread. We just can't follow advice. This is our main problem and this will allow the virus to spread more

27-08-2020 11:03AM

average_runner wrote: »

Look at reports of parents outside kids school on the other thread. We just can't follow advice. This is our main problem and this will allow the virus to spread more

When the schools closed almost 6 months ago, many people highlighted the need for a proper plan to be put in place to allow them to reopen safely.

There is all kinds of creative ideas that could have been looked at. Staggering start times and lunch breaks etc. Maybe some online work for the older students. Maybe a slightly shorter week to keep attendance numbers lower but less mid terms etc so time is not lost. Maybe several different entrances and exits for classes each morning.

Did we actually explore any of these options? No.
We left it until 3 or 4 weeks ago and just announced that schools would fully open as normal. Each school was left to figure things out for themselves.

Most parents didn't receive much / if any directions from the schools.

I am very surprised that people are surprised that hundreds started arriving at the gates on reopening day. That is exactly what the plan told them to do.

average_runner · 27-08-2020 11:06AM

Deleted User wrote: »

When the schools closed almost 6 months ago, many people highlighted the need for a proper plan to be put in place to allow them to reopen safely.

There is all kinds of creative ideas that could have been looked at. Staggering start times and lunch breaks etc. Maybe some online work for the older students. Maybe a slightly shorter week to keep attendance numbers lower but less mid terms etc so time is not lost. Maybe several different entrances and exits for classes each morning.

Did we actually explore any of these options? No.
We left it until 3 or 4 weeks ago and just announced that schools would fully open as normal. Each school was left to figure things out for themselves.

Most parents didn't receive much / if any directions from the schools.

I am very surprised that people are surprised that hundreds started arriving at the gates on reopening day. That is exactly what the plan told them to do.

Also told them to social distance from each other, talking about the adults here

BPKS · 27-08-2020 11:11AM

Does anybody think that the powers that be will ever relax restrictions in counties where there are little or no cases like they locked down the counties where there are spikes in case.

tobefrank321 · 27-08-2020 11:22AM

BPKS wrote: »

Does anybody think that the powers that be will ever relax restrictions in counties where there are little or no cases like they locked down the counties where there are spikes in case.

By right they should. The risk in a county like Leitrim is low, even if everyone in the country visited.

Places like Galway have had massive numbers visiting in recent weeks, pubs serving food were relatively full, close mixing of people and yet hardly any spike in cases.

27-08-2020 11:40AM

BPKS wrote: »

Does anybody think that the powers that be will ever relax restrictions in counties where there are little or no cases like they locked down the counties where there are spikes in case.

They should have reopened the country while we had weeks with less than 20 cases a day.

They should reopen the country now with just 4 in ICU.

Certainly in rural Ireland. But they must be petrified that Dubs will arrive in high numbers for weekends away.

The whole thing is becoming a bit of a joke now. People want to get on with their lives.

average_runner · 27-08-2020 11:40AM

BPKS wrote: »

Does anybody think that the powers that be will ever relax restrictions in counties where there are little or no cases like they locked down the counties where there are spikes in case.

Nope, as people will rush to those counties

27-08-2020 11:50AM

average_runner wrote: »

Nope, as people will rush to those counties

Thats a fear but I don't think it would be a reality.

If you really want, there are plenty of pubs in Dublin that won't force you to buy food or kick you out after 90 mins.

How many people are actually willing to travel and pay accommodation etc just to go out?

Of the people that would have the availability and money etc, they would be spread out across counties.

You have a very poor opinion of Irish people.

TRANQUILLO · 27-08-2020 12:09PM

Penfailed wrote: »

The focus hasn't shifted. Case numbers were always reported, right from the start.

Its how its framed though isn't it Penfailed. They can definitely drive an agenda by the way they paint the picture.

Its akin to giving a match report like this..... Liverpool had a staggering 40 shots on their goal today (cases), the opponents hit the cross bar twice (ICU) , they also kept a clean sheet (deaths) for the 11th consecutive match. No mention either that the shots(cases) were all ten yards wide or miles over the bar (asymptomatic).

They start with the sexy big number in cases and then mutter the deaths under their breath.

TRANQUILLO · 27-08-2020 12:20PM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Great interview with a Spanish doctor working in a hospital in Madrid calling out the fear mongering media.

They don't know what to say when he challenges them with fact that the hospital is almost empty same situation as here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwlkumcRf6w

What I find striking is the fact that any of the people against opening up have not commented on this video since it was posted up.

They have posted in the thread since it was posted but have not responded to the video. Its very disappointing. The discourse is so dishonest.

You cannot wake someone who is pretending to be asleep........

hmmm · 27-08-2020 12:27PM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

What I find striking is the fact that any of the people against opening up have not commented on this video since it was posted up.

Personally I generally find it's only cranks who post up youtube videos as evidence of something. Instead of everyone having to sit through 10 minutes of this video, could you explain what the point is that you are trying to make, and what is so special about this particular doctor which means he knows more about the topic than other doctors?

lee_baby_simms · 27-08-2020 12:29PM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

What I find striking is the fact that any of the people against opening up have not commented on this video since it was posted up.

They have posted in the thread since it was posted but have not responded to the video. Its very disappointing. The discourse is so dishonest.

You cannot wake someone who is pretending to be asleep........

Well the fact is were not assessing the risk based on hospitalisations or deaths, we're not even basing it on people presenting with symptoms!

The detected case number alone is a complete red herring and only compounded by the fact that most are asymptomatic. Surely the total number of undetected active cases is magnitudes higher as people are unaware that they're infected.

So its a pointless metric and if its the only thing driving policy then worryingly this will go on for a long time, regardless of low sickness/deaths.

We're lost at sea and convinced that a storm is about to hit us any minute.

TRANQUILLO · 27-08-2020 12:31PM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Well the fact is were not assessing the risk based on hospitalisations or deaths, we're not even basing it on people presenting with symptoms!

The detected case number alone is a complete red herring and only compounded by the fact that most are asymptomatic. Surely the total number of undetected active cases is magnitudes higher as people are unaware that they're infected.

So its a pointless metric and if its the only thing driving policy then worryingly this will go on for a long time, regardless of low sickness/deaths.

We're lost at sea and convinced that a storm is about to hit us any minute.

Paralysis by analysis at this stage. And now a vaccine needs to sold . So much skin in the game to put the toothpaste back in tube now.

TRANQUILLO · 27-08-2020 12:39PM

hmmm wrote: »

Personally I generally find it's only cranks who post up youtube videos as evidence of something. Instead of everyone having to sit through 10 minutes of this video, could you explain what the point is that you are trying to make, and what is so special about this particular doctor which means he knows more about the topic than other doctors?

Hi Hmm,

The youtube channel in particular is of considerable interest . Coincidentally ran by an irishman .

The last three uploads are from mainstream french, german and spanish television respectively . Their versions or primetime or the news for want of a better word. On each of the uploads a professor or doctor goes into the data and tell us the pandemic (be definition) is over. The french man even superimposes the curves from sweden onto lockdown countries and shows the result is essentially the same.

The uploaded video in question from Spain has a Spanish doctor working in one of madrids biggest hospitals and he tell them all their doctors and officials are on holiday. there is no emergency . ICU staff twiddling their thumbs and no problems.

The german video is of a german coroner of some renown who has seen zero bodies that died from covid . he also wrote and article in BILD confirming the same.

on your cranks comment.......i understand the frustration you have with conspiracy theorists and the like but the only way to reach common ground is if i agree to read your book if you agree to read mine . Same thing happens with BLM. One crowd shout "you need to read conversations with white people then you'll understand " the other side says " you need to read the madness of crowds by douglas murray and you'll see our side" neither side reads either books and no common ground is ever reached.

bush · 27-08-2020 12:42PM

People dont want to hear from doctors and experts who arent doom and gloom for some reason.

dalyboy · 27-08-2020 01:13PM

bush wrote: »

People dont want to hear from doctors and experts who arent doom and gloom for some reason.

I’m of the opinion it’s 100% of the “skin the game” at this point.

How many billions have been invested in research and futures stocking of a yet to be proven safe vaccine.

If any good news is reported by the media it dents the roll out of this vaccine and a lot of money will have been squandered , hence the continuity of absurd media propaganda hysteria

walus · 27-08-2020 01:20PM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

What I find striking is the fact that any of the people against opening up have not commented on this video since it was posted up.

They have posted in the thread since it was posted but have not responded to the video. Its very disappointing. The discourse is so dishonest.

You cannot wake someone who is pretending to be asleep........

It is hard to admit that one was wrong. As a matter of interest France has now similar number of daily covid cases as back in March/April (~5k) at the same time the number of deaths are 10-20 vs 500-600 as of back then. Surely one has to be looking at the stats from across Europe and think when and how we start opening the country and re-build the sentiment of the population.

walus · 27-08-2020 01:22PM

dalyboy wrote: »

I’m of the opinion it’s 100% of the “skin the game” at this point.

How many billions have been invested in research and futures stocking of a yet to be proven safe vaccine.

If any good news is reported by the media it dents the roll out of this vaccine and a lot of money will have been squandered , hence the continuity of absurd media propaganda hysteria

Could there have been preliminary talks of this vaccine being produced in Ireland...?

hmmm · 27-08-2020 02:02PM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

The uploaded video in question from Spain has a Spanish doctor working in one of madrids biggest hospitals and he tell them all their doctors and officials are on holiday. there is no emergency . ICU staff twiddling their thumbs and no problems.

We know that numbers in ICU are down because of the actions which were taken to suppress the virus. We have only 4 in ICU currently in Ireland. We're trying to keep it that way.

The german video is of a german coroner of some renown who has seen zero bodies that died from covid . he also wrote and article in BILD confirming the same.

I'm afraid I don't know many famous coroners. What's his point - that this is all made up?

on your cranks comment.......i understand the frustration you have with conspiracy theorists .

That's not it. I have a frustration with people who post these endless (boring) and shouty youtubes from people I've never heard of, and somehow I'm supposed to wade through this thing looking for the point the poster is trying to make.

Captain_Crash · 27-08-2020 02:14PM

hmmm wrote: »

We know that numbers in ICU are down because of the actions which were taken to suppress the virus. We have only 4 in ICU currently in Ireland. We're trying to keep it that way.

This just doesn't make sense??? Cases are rising, but ICU numbers are dropping?

So the actions taken are not suppressing the virus as much as they were, but your saying they are still suppressing the number of people requiring ICU?
I don't think the actions taken have any bearing on how severe a dose someone may get, thats just genetics/age/pot luck

hmmm · 27-08-2020 02:18PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

This just doesn't make sense??? Cases are rising, but ICU numbers are dropping?

There's a big lag between infection and ICU. The people in ICU currently are people who have been there mostly since the first wave back in March/April.

Generally it seems to go something like this:
Initial infection -> 1 to 2 weeks to show symptoms -> 1 to 2 weeks to need hospitalisation -> 1 to 2 weeks to get to ICU -> potentially weeks or months in ICU before cure or otherwise. There's an additional lag between the time it gets into the community, and the time it reaches vulnerable populations.

Covid isn't so dangerous by itself, but the burden it puts on the health service is enormous. It's very easy for it to overload capacity with sick people in beds for weeks.

lee_baby_simms · 27-08-2020 02:22PM

hmmm wrote: »

We know that numbers in ICU are down because of the actions which were taken to suppress the virus.

We don’t know this at all. You’re just repeating a government line.

We also don’t know the true infection rate. We never will.

We do know that the IFR across all demographics in Europe is plummeting. The numbers are irrefutable.

People across all ages are still getting it but which much milder symptoms and a fraction of the death rate.

This has nothing to do with “suppressing the virus” which is just a trite slogan. At least “flatten the curve” was quantifiable.

Captain_Crash · 27-08-2020 02:24PM

hmmm wrote: »

There's a big lag between infection and ICU. The people in ICU currently are people who have been there mostly since the first wave back in March/April.

Cases have been rising for weeks tho and ICU numbers dropping. It may take a number of weeks but we'd be starting to see this by now but were seeing the opposite

hmmm wrote: »

Covid isn't so dangerous by itself, but the burden it puts on the health service is enormous. It's very easy for it to overload capacity with sick people in beds for weeks.

Yes, Covid by itself is not dangerous, I agree, and at its worst, our hospitals weren't anywhere near capacity.... even the CMO at the time was encouraging people to go to A&E because they were empty. There are other factors at play here yes, but there was no increased burden on our health service partly because many of the existing burdens were removed, and to this day remain absent.

TRANQUILLO · 27-08-2020 02:27PM

hmmm wrote: »

We know that numbers in ICU are down because of the actions which were taken to suppress the virus. We have only 4 in ICU currently in Ireland. We're trying to keep it that way.

I'm afraid I don't know many famous coroners. What's his point - that this is all made up?

That's not it. I have a frustration with people who post these endless (boring) and shouty youtubes from people I've never heard of, and somehow I'm supposed to wade through this thing looking for the point the poster is trying to make.

Hi Hmm ,

To be honest i feel we have reached an impasse. I didnt put up the video , but the poster who uploaded it gave a brief synopsis of what it pertained to. I then posted about how i found it striking that nobody who was against relaxing restrictions had any feelings on the content of the video. You then quoted me while putting the burden of proof on me to essentially verify the credentials of said medical professional. Something I imagine the mainstream Spanish channel in question have already done...its not infowars or 4chan. As an aeronautical engineer who deals is power plant trend analysis i cannot testify to the gravitas of this mans position but i watched the video and didn't feel duped and thought it was food for thought.

In parallel to this whole back and forth you could have watched 40 or 50 seconds of it in less than time than it took to reply to me with obfuscation and heel dragging.

In football parlance you've played the man and not the ball. In that sense the veil has slipped and I feel regardless of what's posted you will move the goal posts to buttress your increasingly fraudulent positions.

So now instead of debating the content of the video we are talking about who can say what, who dictates who's veracity of claims and theorising about why should you bother watching videos at all .

Dare I ask why you are even in the thread? A conversation of this importance can only be had if both parties enter into it willing to have their mind changed. You and your ilk are not for turning .

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings