Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

walus · 26-08-2020 10:30PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You are completely wrong. Nothing is “burning to the ground” economically when we have 84% of people employed; major structural drivers of the economy open for business; no crisis in our financial system; and part of the Eurozone in which all members are adversely effected; as part of a world in which most of it is adversely effected.

If you want to see things burn to the ground open up like you suggest; force a mass wave of infection; and force a shutdown of structural drivers of the economy as part of a horrendous public health event. Huge percentage of sick. Tens of thousands dead. No confidence. No economy. It is delusional to think people will pack nightclubs and music events if there are hundreds of cases a day and escalating all the time. It is you who wants to burn the economy to the ground because a narrow expendable part of it is necessarily closed at present.

We are doing the only thing we can do to keep the vital parts of the economy open; public confidence as high as possible; and avoid economic Armageddon while protecting public health.

I can only assume your view of the economy and global economic context is very limited; focussed on a small business or narrow range of service activity that is currently closed.

How was it then that last time we only had a crisis of financial system and we are still paying for to this day? I’m afraid it is you who doesn’t understand how the economy that is largely based on consumption works. Wait until the credit cycle rapidly ends and so called strong sector i.e. construction takes a whack to the head. Just like in 2008 the domino effect is already happening.

i_surge · 26-08-2020 10:36PM

walus wrote: »

How was it then that last time we only had a crisis of financial system and we are still paying for to this day? I’m afraid it is you who doesn’t understand how the economy that is largely based on consumption works. Wait until the credit cycle rapidly ends and so called strong sector i.e. construction takes a whack to the head. Just like in 2008 the domino effect is already happening.

If we all get through this ok and back to living, a few extra quid in tax won't kill you.

Such tabloidesque whinging

Anyway, your policy is infinitely more damaging to the economy, you just haven't wisened up to that yet.

26-08-2020 10:39PM

i_surge wrote: »

If we all get through this ok and back to living, a few extra quid in tax won't kill you.

Such tabloidesque whinging

Anyway, your policy is infinitely more damaging to the economy, you just haven't wisened up to that yet.

Good grief...
A collapsed economy will be a lot worse than a “few quid” in tax!!

walus · 26-08-2020 10:42PM

i_surge wrote: »

If we all get through this ok and back to living, a few extra quid in tax won't kill you.

Such tabloidesque whinging

Anyway, your policy is infinitely more damaging to the economy, you just haven't wisened up to that yet.

I’m not whinging, just stating the facts. You are getting this wrong.

I don’t mind paying a few extra quid for the next 20 years as long as I have a job.

walus · 26-08-2020 10:47PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

...
Huge percentage of sick. Tens of thousands dead. ...

Tens of thousands dead? What do you think is the Covid death rate?

26-08-2020 10:47PM

walus wrote: »

I’m not whinging, just stating the facts. You are getting this wrong.

I don’t mind paying a few extra quid for the next 20 years as long as I have a job.

I fear there is a very serious lack of understanding on this thread.

Recession will literally see people losing jobs, homes, families fallen apart, spending cuts to just about everything, extra taxes that we’ll never get rid of, the housing crisis will be ignored for years to come.

Del Griffith · 26-08-2020 11:00PM

i_surge wrote: »

If we all get through this ok and back to living...

If?? Do you see this as a mass extinction event?

LuckyLloyd · 26-08-2020 11:04PM

walus wrote: »

Tens of thousands dead? What do you think is the Covid death rate?

You should read my post again.

lee_baby_simms · 26-08-2020 11:07PM

i_surge wrote: »

If we all get through this ok

We will. You may be the last out of your bunker but we will manage to survive as a species.

LessOutragePlz · 26-08-2020 11:09PM

i_surge wrote: »

If we all get through this ok and back to living, a few extra quid in tax won't kill you.

If we all get through this?????

Newsflash the worst of it is over by a long stretch but keep believing the hysteria and utter sh1te being peddled by a lot of the media at the moment.

Cases going up means fvck all if hospitalisations and deaths are low which is the case right now and for the past few weeks.

Can you not see how the focus has been shifted from deaths to cases?

Ask yourself why?

If you can't come up with a logical answer to that question then you've been consumed by the media hysteria like the majority of the general public.

i_surge · 26-08-2020 11:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I fear there is a very serious lack of understanding on this thread.

Recession will literally see people losing jobs, homes, families fallen apart, spending cuts to just about everything, extra taxes that we’ll never get rid of, the housing crisis will be ignored for years to come.

You haven't a clue about economics...people talk about fear and hysteria and this is just it. We don't even have much unemployment yet as it is artificially supported by the state with the very intention of keeping money flowing.

If we sort out covid properly and that means virtually eradicated or some scientific breakthrough or working at very low numbers with little sign of increase after a few months then we well get back to where we were quickly.

More likely, is ignorant fools will drag the relatively excellent performance in the first half of the year completely backwards into a winter of discontent and the whole thing will drag out over a few years decimating the economy.

So mild recession or devastating depression.

Your choice, collectively.

i_surge · 26-08-2020 11:12PM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

We will. You may be the last out of your bunker but we will manage to survive as a species.

Love how you are all putting words in my mouth, all ready to nit pick a single word but ye won't answer the basic questions that expose the flaws in what you are saying.

I was talking about getting back to real life, not covid restriction life. :rolleyes:

LessOutragePlz · 26-08-2020 11:14PM

Great interview with a Spanish doctor working in a hospital in Madrid calling out the fear mongering media.

They don't know what to say when he challenges them with fact that the hospital is almost empty same situation as here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwlkumcRf6w

walus · 26-08-2020 11:14PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You should read my post again.

I did and there is nothing on COVID death rate I’m afraid.

Dtp1979 · 26-08-2020 11:29PM

Ok, does anyone know the closing times for pubs that serve food on a Friday?

26-08-2020 11:31PM

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ok, does anyone know the closing times for pubs that serve food on a Friday?

I think it’s 23:30...

GocRh · 26-08-2020 11:49PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it’s 23:30...

Premises need to be vacated by 23:30, I suspect some restaurants will be asking customers to leave before that to make sure no customers are on the premises by half past...
Haven't yet been out since this new rule was introduced so I don't know if restaurants are really following it to the letter...

TRANQUILLO · 27-08-2020 12:02AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Great interview with a Spanish doctor working in a hospital in Madrid calling out the fear mongering media.

They don't know what to say when he challenges them with fact that the hospital is almost empty same situation as here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwlkumcRf6w

Hard to argue with that isn't it? Frank . Concise. Clear.

She did her best to steer him but he was having none of it. We are lacking his ilk in Ireland.
Dan O Brien the economist is having a decent go at it though but wont be listened to as he's non medical but hes asking all the right questions and interprets data better than most.

PTH2009 · 27-08-2020 12:09AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it’s 23:30...

GocRh wrote: »

Premises need to be vacated by 23:30, I suspect some restaurants will be asking customers to leave before that to make sure no customers are on the premises by half past...
Haven't yet been out since this new rule was introduced so I don't know if restaurants are really following it to the letter...

ive been to places that have last orders 9.30pm and out by 10pm and that was a Saturday night :eek::eek: in the main drinking area of the city

the past few weeks places have been picking and choosing when they called lost orders. Last Saturday last orders 10.30pm out for 11pm

Penfailed · 27-08-2020 06:27AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Can you not see how the focus has been shifted from deaths to cases?

Ask yourself why?

If you can't come up with a logical answer to that question then you've been consumed by the media hysteria like the majority of the general public.

The focus hasn't shifted. Case numbers were always reported, right from the start.

CruelSummer · 27-08-2020 07:42AM

I think a review of the media’s behaviour & mis-information is needed over the last 6 months. From their vilification of people going to parks during lockdown, fake pictures of Salthill circulating from July 2018 during in the lead up to Easter weekend in April, their absolute harassment of the Irish public to cancel their foreign holidays at their own expense, the constant negativity & misinformation fed to us on a daily basis. Why are they not highlighting the very low hospital numbers, how the outbreak is not what it was in March/April & generating some positive news to its people? It would help economic activity also.
Fergal Bowers is one of the few who tries to report in a more measured and balanced way.
Some people are considering not sending their children back to school even though children have less risk from Covid than many other seasonal illnesses. HSE need an information campaign urgently to address this issue & not to miss other viruses+conditions than are genuinely dangerous to children like bronchiolitis.
I do commend the Government on the reopening of schools, it is vital to our economy, children’s development and well-being and the future. Many jobs would have been lost had the mortgage breaks ended with banks & parents unable to return to work also.

Nermal · 27-08-2020 08:18AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It is delusional to think people will pack nightclubs and music events if there are hundreds of cases a day and escalating all the time.

Think about what you’re saying. We had to ban music events, because otherwise no one would attend them?

Penfailed · 27-08-2020 08:30AM

Nermal wrote: »

Think about what you’re saying. We had to ban music events, because otherwise no one would attend them?

I would have attended them. It would've been good to have the choice.

Happydays2020 · 27-08-2020 08:41AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think a review of the media’s behaviour & mis-information is needed over the last 6 months. From their vilification of people going to parks during lockdown, fake pictures of Salthill circulating from July 2018 during in the lead up to Easter weekend in April, their absolute harassment of the Irish public to cancel their foreign holidays at their own expense, the constant negativity & misinformation fed to us on a daily basis. Why are they not highlighting the very low hospital numbers, how the outbreak is not what it was in March/April & generating some positive news to its people? It would help economic activity also.
Fergal Bowers is one of the few who tries to report in a more measured and balanced way.
Some people are considering not sending their children back to school even though children have less risk from Covid than many other seasonal illnesses. HSE need an information campaign urgently to address this issue & not to miss other viruses+conditions than are genuinely dangerous to children like bronchiolitis.
I do commend the Government on the reopening of schools, it is vital to our economy, children’s development and well-being and the future. Many jobs would have been lost had the mortgage breaks ended with banks & parents unable to return to work also.

The whole country has been marched up a mountain as a means to escape a Tsunami. The tsunami itself is dangerous but we are finding that life on the top of the mountain is not particularly great. There is less oxygen and it is uncomfortable for many people. The task now is to bring us down the mountain to a safe point (a new normal). The problem is that there are people who still want to get to the top of the mountain and see that as the only goal not realising that it may well be more dangerous up there.

LuckyLloyd · 27-08-2020 08:58AM

Nermal wrote: »

Think about what you’re saying. We had to ban music events, because otherwise no one would attend them?

I thought about what I said alright. We didn’t ban music events because nobody would attend them, nor did I say that we did.

What I said is that there is a fantasy of January 2020 life with full boom consumer confidence being peddled on this thread if only everything would be reopened with zero restrictions, no masks, etc. It’s delusional.

LuckyLloyd · 27-08-2020 09:01AM

walus wrote: »

I did and there is nothing on COVID death rate I’m afraid.

As I said, if we let the virus move unrestricted through the population overwhelming healthcare in the process we would end up with 10s of thousands dead - even on a <1% mortality rate.

average_runner · 27-08-2020 09:04AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think a review of the media’s behaviour & mis-information is needed over the last 6 months. From their vilification of people going to parks during lockdown, fake pictures of Salthill circulating from July 2018 during in the lead up to Easter weekend in April, their absolute harassment of the Irish public to cancel their foreign holidays at their own expense, the constant negativity & misinformation fed to us on a daily basis. Why are they not highlighting the very low hospital numbers, how the outbreak is not what it was in March/April & generating some positive news to its people? It would help economic activity also.
Fergal Bowers is one of the few who tries to report in a more measured and balanced way.
Some people are considering not sending their children back to school even though children have less risk from Covid than many other seasonal illnesses. HSE need an information campaign urgently to address this issue & not to miss other viruses+conditions than are genuinely dangerous to children like bronchiolitis.
I do commend the Government on the reopening of schools, it is vital to our economy, children’s development and well-being and the future. Many jobs would have been lost had the mortgage breaks ended with banks & parents unable to return to work also.

I do agree the media should be giving some praise right now and highlight the risks at the same time.

The cases in hospital are low because we now have measures in place protecting the elderly. We are more aware of the virus and have taken steps and currently implementing steps to protect the spread, ie most office workers working from home, hence look numbers on public transport.

We do have an issue that alot of cases are under 45 and we need to ensure that this doesn't spread but a lockdown is not the answer.

27-08-2020 09:12AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As I said, if we let the virus move unrestricted through the population overwhelming healthcare in the process we would end up with 10s of thousands dead - even on a <1% mortality rate.

At one stage we had over 1000 cases a day. And our testing was very low at the time so we likely had a lot more cases.

The hospitals were not overwhelmed. Not even close. The private hospitals were empty.

Sweden had no lockdown at all and an ICU with a similar capacity to ours. They were not overwhelmed either.

To be honest, I doubt there is anything I can say or any stats that will make you believe that 10s of thousands won't die. For your own sanity, I recommend turning the news off.

average_runner · 27-08-2020 09:29AM

Deleted User wrote: »

At one stage we had over 1000 cases a day. And our testing was very low at the time so we likely had a lot more cases.

The hospitals were not overwhelmed. Not even close. The private hospitals were empty.

Sweden had no lockdown at all and an ICU with a similar capacity to ours. They were not overwhelmed either.

To be honest, I doubt there is anything I can say or any stats that will make you believe that 10s of thousands won't die. For your own sanity, I recommend turning the news off.

There is a big difference between Sweden and Ireland. The Swedish people listen and follows advice, the Irish will go against all advice.

Sweden didn't do a lockdown, but most in offices worked from home, nursing homes were closed for visitors and most people stayed out of restaurants and pubs. I know this because I have family and friends in Stockholm. Schools were also shutdown for a period.

27-08-2020 09:43AM

average_runner wrote: »

There is a big difference between Sweden and Ireland. The Swedish people listen and follows advice, the Irish will go against all advice.

Sweden didn't do a lockdown, but most in offices worked from home, nursing homes were closed for visitors and most people stayed out of restaurants and pubs. I know this because I have family and friends in Stockholm. Schools were also shutdown for a period.

This gets mentioned again and again but it is not true. We are not some country of degenerates.

The airport is empty because people were asked not to go abroad.
Most people have made some effort to obey the restrictions. (Even though some of them have been ridiculous.)

On this very thread we have been accused repeatedly of only wanting a few pints. Most of the issues raised are nothing to do with alcohol.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings