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Masks

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Comments

  • #9202
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    "I wear a mask to protect myself against idiots"

    In this case idiots are the anti-mask brigade and idiots that are happy to lie about fabricated illnesses to avoid the hassle of wearing masks. Idiots. Does that sound like anyone you know?


  • #9203
    saneman
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭saneman


    Yes: surgical
    washman3 wrote: »
    I know exactly what they are. Have been wearing them for years on end at work. Safely can say that i may know more about them than many here.
    When i hear someone suggest that a piece of cloth covering your nose and mouth will prevent a virus one millionth of a millimeter from passing through, i don't know whether to laugh or cry. Forget about this 'virus in droplet guff..!!

    The only mask that may be in any way viable is the surgical type used in operating theatres, but those are only effective in such environments, which are sterile and single use only. Do you ever see a surgeon wearing one walking around a hospital.
    Would love to check and see what some of you folks round here were 'experts' on a year ago....;)

    Well if "guff" means overwhelming scientific & medical consensus, then sorry, you're correct.

    Apart from air-fed systems, medical grade FFP3, FFP2 (& N99/N95 equivilants) offer the best protection in clinical settings. Surgical masks (if EN14683:2019 Type II) to a lesser extent and following that minimal risk 3-ply surgical-type masks. Face coverings offer the least protective benefit but that does not mean they offer no protection. And that benefit would be cumulative when used in conjunction with hand washing & social distancing. Many also have the added benefit of being washable & reusable.

    The WHO used the term "mechanistic plausibility" in a 2019 report on the protective benefits of mask use by the public during an influenza pandemic (c-19 has very similar modes of transmission). This was inferred by those experts based on the benefits shown from clinical studies in laboratory environments and was in relation to protecting the wearer. Further evidence has since emerged on the protective benefits to others should the wearer be the one infected

    The strong evidence is there but will never be 100% conclusive, there is no way to study the myriad of environments in which masks may be used. We're talking about a (despite what others seem to believe) non-harmful method of intervention and I don't understand why those who still doubt their efficacy wouldn't prefer to err on the side of caution.
    washman3 wrote: »
    Give us your explanation so.!!
    And while you're at it explain why there wasn't sufficient and proper PPE for our Frontline staff when they needed it most, and also why we bought plane loads of duds from China while they themselves were buying their own from Korea.
    15 years PPE industry experience means you should have no problem explaining this.

    In the early stages China effectively halted exports of PPE manufactured within it borders (it refuted this but a record number “force majeure” certificates were issued to allow it's companies to break existing contracts) and also used its purchasing power to buy up stock from global suppliers. It also receivied large donations of PPE from the likes of the US at a time when the WHO was highlighting global shortages. Manufacturers & suppliers, including the major names in the global market, were reliant on Chinese production and scrambled to find alternate sources as they found out that their facilities were not in fact their facilities.

    As demand within China decreased and export bans lifted the market was flooded with excess PPE, an appreciable amount of it did not meet required specifications/quality standards, or indeed was countefieit (I came across this personally, reviewing PPE samples accompanied with what turned out to be a forged European compliance cert). Demand around the globe had gone into overdrive at that stage, exacerbated by the actions of other nations, such as Trump's use of the Defence Production Act to ensure American PPE manufacturers (i.e. the biggest ones, Honeywell, 3M, Moldex) supplied to the US only. Those with the deepest pockets were outbidding, & effectively hijacking, shipments of masks and other PPE destined elsewhere.

    Here, as in other countries, there weren't adequate PPE stockpiles available for healthcare staff for a pandemic episode, at least not for any great length of time. That's down to poor planning, and the expectation that PPE would be readily available from the usual supplier base (at that point it wasn't, see above). HSE procurement pulled the trigger on large PPE orders, sight unseen, and an act of desperation at that stage. And they weren't on their own, again that was a glogbal issue. I'm sure there were procurements officers sweating until the point their orders arrived and were inspection/validated, there was ceratinly enough "duds" received to warrant investigations into the processes involved.


  • #9204
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Yes: surgical
    Usain Bolt tests positive for coronavirus days after maskless birthday celebration


    https://www.foxnews.com/sports/usain-bolt-tests-positive-for-covid-19


  • #9205
    Seanergy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    washman3 wrote: »
    When i hear someone suggest that a piece of cloth covering your nose and mouth will prevent a virus one millionth of a millimeter from passing through, i don't know whether to laugh or cry. Forget about this 'virus in droplet guff..!!

    The only mask that may be in any way viable is the surgical type used in operating theatres, but those are only effective in such environments, which are sterile and single use only. Do you ever see a surgeon wearing one walking around a hospital.

    Would be alot more helpful if you would choose a particle size and stick with it. Seen zero covid-19 evidence that the virus is viable at one millionth of a millimeter.

    Surgical masks are not made to a 0.1 µm spec. Majority of surgical masks are made to a 0.6 µm spec. They are deisgned to filter bacteria from the wearer dropping into an open body part during surgery, not to prevent spread walking around the hospital, hence their name. They were never designed to reduce/prevent virus transmission but they can help reduce spread.

    It's only the 0.3 µm's that do not travel in a straight line. KN95's spec to a 0.3 µm, 95% effective with 0.3 µm particle's. It's the electrically charged meltblown that does the magic on the non straight traveling particle's by magnetically drawing them into contact.

    Currently in Ireland HSE advice continues to be covid-19 is transmitted by droplet only = 10 µm and larger.


  • #9206
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    Alright, I see the IAB (Irish anti-mask brigade) are still on it. God/Mother nature/Universe bless their numbers are diminished day by day.

    Elsewhere in reality, Czechia is reintroducing universal mandatory masks both indoors and outdoors (TBC) from the 1st September.

    This is a reaction to a) schools reopening and b) the second wave which occurred following loosening the restrictions at the end of June. Number of daily cases are now equivalent to what they were during the April peak.


  • #9207
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Yes: valved
    Seanergy wrote: »
    Sounds like your trying to do the best you can, you'd have my blessing to proceed all things considered. Yes generally valved masks contribute to the atmosphere more than non valved but don't forget so do badly fitting masks and visors with no masks.

    How one contributes to the communal air has not been discussed, many on this thread have been hopping for proper state wide education for months now.

    If I was returning to secondary school as a teacher I would face the debate face on. It's going to be playing on the minds of your students and yourself so adress the elephant in the room, otherwise very little is going to be taught or absorbed.

    If your going to remain consious of your contributuion why not get your classroom a hepa filter fan and a CO2 monitor. The CO2 monitor (150euro) will give you a guide for when the air in the class is not refreshing quick enough, the hepa filter will aid cleaning the air that does not get a chance to escape. Some excellent low budget DIY HEPA filter fans can be constructed for 100-200 euro(that price would include afew filters). Enough of the kids and their parents do not want their children contracting or spreading the virus so maybe everyone can chip in, get them to bring notes home from day 1. Big knock on effect with that sort of approach.

    Have you tried the KN95's without the valve?

    Thank you I appreciate the detail. Unfortunately, I'm a second level teacher so I am on the move and in many rooms even if I was to stand with my back up against the board I'm still going to be 1m from my students. Our rooms are absolutely packed and I teach four groups who will have 30 students in the room, four with 27. Luckily the other groups are smaller.

    I've ordered contact lenses for a better mask fit (I have a hearing aid and glasses too!) and I'll give the n95 a go thanks


  • #9208
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    McGiver wrote: »
    Alright, I see the IAB (Irish anti-mask brigade) are still on it. God/Mother nature/Universe bless their numbers are diminished day by day.

    Elsewhere in reality, Czechia is reintroducing universal mandatory masks both indoors and outdoors (TBC) from the 1st September.

    This is a reaction to a) schools reopening and b) the second wave which occurred following loosening the restrictions at the end of June. Number of daily cases are now equivalent to what they were during the April peak.

    Where's the ICU admissions and deaths. Okay it's mostly effecting younger and less at risk people but back in March the lockdown brigade now rebranded the mask brigade were telling us that there were younger people dying and being admitted to ICU also were they lying back in March or are they lying now?


  • #9209
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    If the masks are as good as he says, he shouldn't care what others do so, it would be their decision like smoking or drinking :)

    Unlike smoking and drinking which are personal risk, this is different, individual behaviour affects community risk.

    The innocent suffer from the ignorant behaviour of others.

    (Why oh why should i even have to explain the obvious?)


  • #9210
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,484 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    GT89 wrote: »
    Where's the ICU admissions and deaths. Okay it's mostly effecting younger and less at risk people but back in March the lockdown brigade now rebranded the mask brigade were telling us that there were younger people dying and being admitted to ICU also were they lying back in March or are they lying now?

    Back in March we were reading people in China were dropping dead in the streets from Covid.

    More bull.


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  • #9211
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    Back in March we were reading people in China were dropping dead in the streets from Covid.

    More bull.

    Exactly they were telling they were dropping like flies in China and later Italy it's clear it isn't very deadly to 99.9% of people. Time to get back to the old normal which was flawed too but better than this new normal bs and get on with our lives and forget about covid 1984.


  • #9212
    alentejo
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭alentejo


    Do secondary children have to wear masks in school? While I think to there may need to be an element of wearing masks, I think it is unreasonable to wear them for several hours per day... very uncomfortable. Just a thought


  • #9213
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    GT89 wrote: »
    the world's top ten billionaire's net worth all increased during since covid 1984 started
    GT89 wrote: »
    I know not one who got covid 1984 but that was worthy of universal mask wearing and lockdowns.
    GT89 wrote: »
    Problem= Covid 1984
    GT89 wrote: »
    Why are places using covid 1984 as a guise to encourage people to use contactless payments
    GT89 wrote: »
    use covid 1984 as a convenient excuse as card payments do not require floats, staff to count the days takings, safes to store them in and G4S vans to come and collect.
    GT89 wrote: »
    Or maybe the numbers who have died of covid 1984 would be similar to the numbers dying of flu if you knkw we stopped counting those who died with covid 1984 and only counted those who died of it.
    GT89 wrote: »
    Just like covid 1984 so
    GT89 wrote: »
    better than this new normal bs and get on with our lives and forget about covid 1984.


    Drop the covid 1984 soapboxing or take it to the Conspiracy Theories forum
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



  • #9214
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    alentejo wrote: »
    Do secondary children have to wear masks in school? While I think to there may need to be an element of wearing masks, I think it is unreasonable to wear them for several hours per day... very uncomfortable. Just a thought

    I think parents and pupils should be pushing back on the school to lessen the uniform restrictions ... e.g. polo shirts rather than school jumper, tie and button down shirt. May help with overall feeling of 'restrictiveness'.
    This would also help with making it easier to wash the clothes daily.

    In England this is the latest on masks in schools - so likely we will follow suit:
    The government says secondary pupils in England will now have to wear masks - but only in areas like corridors, and only in regions that have been put under local lockdown... Head teachers in other secondary schools will also have the "flexibility" to introduce masks in their schools if they want to.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/53912865

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9215
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I think parents and pupils should be pushing back on the school to lessen the uniform restrictions ... e.g. polo shirts rather than school jumper, tie and button down shirt. May help with overall feeling of 'restrictiveness'.
    This would also help with making it easier to wash the clothes daily.

    In England this is the latest on masks in schools - so likely we will follow suit:
    The government says secondary pupils in England will now have to wear masks - but only in areas like corridors, and only in regions that have been put under local lockdown... Head teachers in other secondary schools will also have the "flexibility" to introduce masks in their schools if they want to.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/53912865

    During the breif return to school we were told specifically not to wear uniform so that clothes could more easily be washed fresh for each day. It's back to regular uniform from the start next week though.

    Think the masks from age 12 is daft, should be set based on academic year rather than age of the pupil as you'll just have some being awkward about their kids not being 12 until a months time.

    Also the only in local lockdown areas is a bit of a cop out. Either say no schools or all secondary schools. There isn't any local lockdown additional restrictions on wearing masks in additional places, so why just schools in a lockdown area?

    I thought it was the LibDems who were supposed to be sitting on the fence all the time.


  • #9216
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Linking a good article from the Centre for Evidence Based Medicine on the use of face coverings by the generic 'lay' public rather than as PPE.

    The author Trish Greenhalgh is a Professor of Primary Care Health Sciences.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jep.13415
    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/face-coverings-for-the-lay-public-an-alternative-view/

    Some standout sections:
    There is some evidence that the Sars‐CoV‐2 virus relies more heavily than influenza, adenoviruses, or rhinoviruses on droplets, and will thus be more easily filtered out by a cloth cover at source than other respiratory viruses.

    Infection control standards designed for health care workers are not directly relevant to the general public. The infected particles on a health care worker's mask are likely to come from patients, and in this situation the health care worker is (hopefully) uninfected and therefore vulnerable. In contrast, if a member of the public is wearing a cloth face covering, they are the most likely source of any infectious particles on it. The more infectious particles that are caught in that covering, the fewer will have been aerosolised to infect others.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #9217
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    alentejo wrote: »
    Do secondary children have to wear masks in school? While I think to there may need to be an element of wearing masks, I think it is unreasonable to wear them for several hours per day... very uncomfortable. Just a thought

    Actually latest information for Ireland is that they need to wear them in classrooms and corridors:
    https://www.thejournal.ie/face-masks-irish-schools-5186366-Aug2020/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9218
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Actually latest information for Ireland is that they need to wear them in classrooms and corridors:
    https://www.thejournal.ie/face-masks-irish-schools-5186366-Aug2020/

    It's a real shame our once great nation has bought into this nonsense so much it's so sad


  • #9219
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    A scientific advisor to the UK government says the coronavirus lockdown was a “panic measure” and a “monumental mistake on a global scale.”

    Infectious diseases expert and University of Edinburgh professor Mark Woolhouse acknowledged that the decision to lockdown in March was a “crude measure” that was enacted because “we couldn’t think of anything better to do.”

    “Lockdown was a panic measure and I believe history will say trying to control Covid-19 through lockdown was a monumental mistake on a global scale, the cure was worse than the disease,” said Woolhouse, who is now calling on the government to unlock society before more damage is done.

    “I never want to see national lockdown again,” he added.

    “It was always a temporary measure that simply delayed the stage of the epidemic we see now. It was never going to change anything fundamentally.”

    The professor asserts that the impact of the response to coronavirus will be worse than the virus itself.

    “I believe the harm lockdown is doing to our education, health care access, and broader aspects of our economy and society will turn out to be at least as great as the harm done by COVID-19,” said Woolhouse.

    Richard Sullivan, professor of cancer at King’s College London, previously warned that there will be more excess cancer deaths over the next 5 years than the number of people who die from coronavirus in the UK due to the disruption caused by the coronavirus lockdown, which is preventing cancer victims from getting treatment.

    Figures also show that there were more excess deaths during the 2017-18 flu season (around 50,000) than the total number of people in the UK who have died from coronavirus (41,433).

    However, a survey conducted last month found that Brits thought around 7 per cent of the population, 5 million people, had been killed by COVID-19.

    I do have feeling that we try too hard to fight something which is not as bad as we thought it will be. First with lockdowns, will masks will be next?


  • #9220
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    I do have feeling that we try too hard to fight something which is not as bad as we thought it will be. First with lockdowns, will masks will be next?

    I think your first query is being discussed elsewhere on the forum re: is the price of the restrictions worth it.

    But specifically on masks, given how low cost, low economic impact they are, I can see them being the longest running of almost all the measures. Along with say 1 metre social distancing. If anything, we will see masks in more places as other restrictions lift.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9221
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    Would people have taken to social distancing and mask wearing to the same extent, or at all, if that was all that was brought in in March? Think the lockdown was a required step to get people to comply with the lesser requirements we are now dealing with.


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  • #9222
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,268 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    Back in March we were reading people in China were dropping dead in the streets from Covid.

    More bull.

    No we weren't. You do this constantly. Just make up random events from the past that never happened to justify some nonsense point. Makes you sound like a nutter. Can you find a single headline from anywhere about people dropping dead in the streets from covid?


  • #9223
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    robinph wrote: »
    Would people have taken to social distancing and mask wearing to the same extent, or at all, if that was all that was brought in in March? Think the lockdown was a required step to get people to comply with the lesser requirements we are now dealing with.

    The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people


  • #9224
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes: homemade
    GT89 wrote: »
    The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people

    Yes, the governments of many nations just want a populace that keeps a couple of metres apart, while wearing face covering, as the economy suffers because of some grand plan to create a complaint people.

    Would you cop on?


  • #9225
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    GT89 wrote: »
    The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people

    Compliance with a public health measure during a pandemic which has claimed the lives of over 1000 Irish people.
    This virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people?
    I'll just leave the moral bankruptcy of your comment hanging there for people to form their own opinions.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9226
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Yes, the governments of many nations just want a populace that keeps a couple of metres apart, while wearing face covering, as the economy suffers because of some grand plan to create a complaint people.

    Would you cop on?

    Explain why the wealth of people such as Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos has increased then?


  • #9227
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Compliance with a public health measure during a pandemic which has claimed the lives of over 1000 Irish people.
    This virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people?
    I'll just leave the moral bankruptcy of your comment hanging there for people to form their own opinions.

    Died with CV19 not of CV19


  • #9228
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes: homemade
    GT89 wrote: »
    Explain why the wealth of people such as Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos has increased then?
    GT89 wrote: »
    Died with CV19 not of CV19

    You really don't get it, do you?

    You obviously enjoy playing this part. Time for the IGNORE option.


  • #9229
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    robinph wrote: »
    Would people have taken to social distancing and mask wearing to the same extent, or at all, if that was all that was brought in in March? Think the lockdown was a required step to get people to comply with the lesser requirements we are now dealing with.

    It's an interesting question.
    Some sort of lockdown yes, not necessarily of the duration \ number of phases we had.

    And certainly I think people would have taken to mask wearing during said lockdown had the policy been rolled out then - and had the masks been available.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9230
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    You really don't get it, do you?

    You obviously enjoy playing this part. Time for the IGNORE option.

    I get that it's exaggerated


  • #9231
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    No: I don't care enough
    GT89 wrote: »
    The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people


    Not 4 posts ago you claimed the virus wasnt deadly to 99.9%.

    Now.you claim 99%.

    I can see your a man/woman of science..


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  • #9232
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,134 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    GT89 wrote: »
    Explain why the wealth of people such as Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos has increased then?

    Christ you dont stop digging do you.


  • #9233
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    GT89 wrote: »
    The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people

    What is the reason for most countries around the world, of all political colours, to have simultaneously come up with the same plans to force their populations into lockdown and mask wearing. If it wasn't for the health of their population then what was it for?


  • #9234
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    Not 4 posts ago you claimed the virus wasnt deadly to 99.9%.

    Now.you claim 99%.

    I can see your a man/woman of science..

    Meant to say 99.9% the second time.

    I'm not a man of science but I can smell a rat


  • #9235
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    GT89 wrote: »
    Died with CV19 not of CV19

    You are well aware of the concept of excess mortality as this canard has been rebutted on this forum multiple times already.
    Over 1000 Irish people have died from this virus.
    Similar spikes of excess mortality have been reported all over Europe.
    Anyone claiming otherwise at this stage is just spreading fake news.

    To go with the moral bankruptcy of your position, you now go for intellectual bankruptcy.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9236
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    robinph wrote: »
    What is the reason for most countries around the world, of all political colours, to have simultaneously come up with the same plans to force their populations into lockdown and mask wearing. If it wasn't for the health of their population then what was it for?

    To get more compliance from their population it's not governments making these decisions they are puppets on strings for international organisations like the UN and NATO. It will benefit big business at the end of the day more compliance will mean more money spent even if it means a but of short term pain.

    Look around all the businesses closing down because of lockdown are small independents whilst big companies are surviving fine.


  • #9237
    one world order
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭one world order


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    I haven't worn a mask during this fear induced media craze and I won't be either. I also won't be taking their vaccine when the government forces it on the population. Sweden haven't bothered with this world agenda and we should be moving back to normality rather than forcing people to do things they wouldn't normally do, based on a virus with a death rate of less than 0.1%.


  • #9238
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    It's an interesting question.
    Some sort of lockdown yes, not necessarily of the duration \ number of phases we had.

    And certainly I think people would have taken to mask wearing during said lockdown had the policy been rolled out then - and had the masks been available.

    There was plenty of time during lockdown to have told people to have made their own face coverings. I had commissioned a couple of sets to be made for my clan by a parent / grandparent before lockdown even started. Since got more of better design done in time before the mask rules then came in.


  • #9239
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    GT89 wrote: »
    Meant to say 99.9% the second time.

    I'm not a man of science but I can smell a rat

    You'll have more success on the conspiracy theories forum, your nonsense is wasted in this thread.


  • #9240
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,134 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    one world order wrote: »
    I haven't worn a mask during this fear induced media craze and I won't be either. I also won't be taking their vaccine when the government forces it on the population. Sweden haven't bothered with this world agenda and we should be moving back to normality rather than forcing people to do things they wouldn't normally do, based on a virus with a death rate of less than 0.1%.

    Username checks out.


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  • #9241
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    You are well aware of the concept of excess mortality as this canard has been rebutted on this forum multiple times already.
    Over 1000 Irish people have died from this virus.
    Similar spikes of excess mortality have been reported all over Europe.
    Anyone claiming otherwise at this stage is just spreading fake news.

    To go with the moral bankruptcy of your position, you now go for intellectual bankruptcy.

    Why did the UK knock 5k deaths off their official toll then? Could the excess be because of people being too scared to go into hospital that needed hospital treatment. Drug use and suicides all up during lockdown too. Cancer screenings closed during lockdown putting people at risk.


  • #9242
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    robinph wrote: »
    There was plenty of time during lockdown to have told people to have made their own face coverings. I had commissioned a couple of sets to be made for my clan by a parent / grandparent before lockdown even started. Since got more of better design done in time before the mask rules then came in.

    Yes but I think it would have also led to a rush on buying other types of masks too.
    Also, it took a long time (too long) for experts here to excrete the wrong information from China about the relative risk of fomite v respiratory transmission and to stop thinking about coverings as PPE but rather as something for the infected and presymptomatic.
    And also to excrete the wrong information that only symptomatic people could spread it.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9243
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    one world order wrote: »
    I haven't worn a mask during this fear induced media craze and I won't be either. I also won't be taking their vaccine when the government forces it on the population. Sweden haven't bothered with this world agenda and we should be moving back to normality rather than forcing people to do things they wouldn't normally do, based on a virus with a death rate of less than 0.1%.

    Sweden's death rate is worse than ours and their economy contracted by 8% so they didn't get off scot free on that side either.
    I wouldn't be taking their example on anything covid-19 related.
    Nice cities though.

    Most of the peope who raise Sweden as an example don't care how many people died from coroanvirus, they'd still say let's move on.

    Czech repulic didn't follow the European agenda on masks in Spring and look at how many lives they saved by showing initiative.
    They are the example we should be following.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9244
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    GT89 wrote: »
    Why did the UK knock 5k deaths off their official toll then? Could the excess be because of people being too scared to go into hospital that needed hospital treatment. Drug use and suicides all up during lockdown too. Cancer screenings closed during lockdown putting people at risk.

    The excess mortality figures are independent of the official toll. That the official toll is corrected shows they are taken seriously and follow a proper methodology.
    The adjusted UK death toll still shows tens of thousand of deaths.
    But sure, you have shown with your moral bankruptcy you don't care how many people died.

    You'll have to show me some actual figures on the other scenarios for any of this to be believable.
    How many people died from suicide or drugs from March to June 2020?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #9245
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    How many people died from suicide or drugs from March to June 2020?

    Crazily for England's official statistics it is zero for suicide because its an average of about a year long process before a death would get recorded as such and that was totally suspend in March. Think Scotland for example might record them sooner, like within weeks, but they then might later get revised back out of the figures at a later date. Different ways to come up with the same answer, just Englands method leaves with no information in the meantime.


  • #9246
    xhomelezz
    Registered Users Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yes: valved
    one world order wrote: »
    I haven't worn a mask during this fear induced media craze and I won't be either. I also won't be taking their vaccine when the government forces it on the population. Sweden haven't bothered with this world agenda and we should be moving back to normality rather than forcing people to do things they wouldn't normally do, based on a virus with a death rate of less than 0.1%.

    Glad to see someone has his facts right :D

    tenor.gif


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  • #9247
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    The excess mortality figures are independent of the official toll. That the official toll is corrected shows they are taken seriously and follow a proper methodology.
    The adjusted UK death toll still shows tens of thousand of deaths.
    But sure, you have shown with your moral bankruptcy you don't care how many people died.

    You'll have to show me some actual figures on the other scenarios for any of this to be believable.
    How many people died from suicide or drugs from March to June 2020?

    Well then maybe the crisis is over and it's mutated into a weaker strain common trends across Europe shows cases skyrocketing but deaths very low.


  • #9248
    Spiderman0081
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭Spiderman0081


    Finland has spent a few million euros testing kids in school for coranavirus up to the age of 10. The goal was to see if there is any evidence that kids that have returned to school are spreaders of the virus and if so, are masks necessary for children. 11,000 children were tested after returning to school. 5 children tested positive, 0.045%.


  • #9249
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Yes: surgical
    Spiderman0081 wrote: »
    Finland has spent a few million euros testing kids in school for coranavirus up to the age of 10. The goal was to see if there is any evidence that kids that have returned to school are spreaders of the virus and if so, are masks necessary for children. 11,000 children were tested after returning to school. 5 children tested positive, 0.045%.

    Great idea. There is way too much negativity about sending kids to school at the moment.


  • #9250
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Off topic but isn't it so easy to manipulate people with just a few seeds of (mis)information to get the predicted reaction and to solidify that opinion with the power of anger and outrage. Once they are pissed off they will cling to that view for dear life. Fight for it on the streets. Use psuedo experts for credibility points.

    Light the fuse and run, let their limited grasp on reality do the rest.


  • #9251
    Seanergy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    GT89 wrote: »
    Well then maybe the crisis is over and it's mutated into a weaker strain common trends across Europe shows cases skyrocketing but deaths very low.

    Common trend across Europe is mask wearing. It was said early on that masks will reduce the viral load and therefore reduce mortality was it not?


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