Masks

Linking a good article from the Centre for Evidence Based Medicine on the use of face coverings by the generic 'lay' public rather than as PPE.

The author Trish Greenhalgh is a Professor of Primary Care Health Sciences.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jep.13415
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/face-coverings-for-the-lay-public-an-alternative-view/

Some standout sections:
There is some evidence that the Sars‐CoV‐2 virus relies more heavily than influenza, adenoviruses, or rhinoviruses on droplets, and will thus be more easily filtered out by a cloth cover at source than other respiratory viruses.

Infection control standards designed for health care workers are not directly relevant to the general public. The infected particles on a health care worker's mask are likely to come from patients, and in this situation the health care worker is (hopefully) uninfected and therefore vulnerable. In contrast, if a member of the public is wearing a cloth face covering, they are the most likely source of any infectious particles on it. The more infectious particles that are caught in that covering, the fewer will have been aerosolised to infect others.

alentejo wrote: »

Do secondary children have to wear masks in school? While I think to there may need to be an element of wearing masks, I think it is unreasonable to wear them for several hours per day... very uncomfortable. Just a thought

Actually latest information for Ireland is that they need to wear them in classrooms and corridors:
https://www.thejournal.ie/face-masks-irish-schools-5186366-Aug2020/

odyssey06 wrote: »

Actually latest information for Ireland is that they need to wear them in classrooms and corridors:
https://www.thejournal.ie/face-masks-irish-schools-5186366-Aug2020/

It's a real shame our once great nation has bought into this nonsense so much it's so sad

patnor1011

A scientific advisor to the UK government says the coronavirus lockdown was a “panic measure” and a “monumental mistake on a global scale.”

Infectious diseases expert and University of Edinburgh professor Mark Woolhouse acknowledged that the decision to lockdown in March was a “crude measure” that was enacted because “we couldn’t think of anything better to do.”

“Lockdown was a panic measure and I believe history will say trying to control Covid-19 through lockdown was a monumental mistake on a global scale, the cure was worse than the disease,” said Woolhouse, who is now calling on the government to unlock society before more damage is done.

“I never want to see national lockdown again,” he added.

“It was always a temporary measure that simply delayed the stage of the epidemic we see now. It was never going to change anything fundamentally.”

The professor asserts that the impact of the response to coronavirus will be worse than the virus itself.

“I believe the harm lockdown is doing to our education, health care access, and broader aspects of our economy and society will turn out to be at least as great as the harm done by COVID-19,” said Woolhouse.

Richard Sullivan, professor of cancer at King’s College London, previously warned that there will be more excess cancer deaths over the next 5 years than the number of people who die from coronavirus in the UK due to the disruption caused by the coronavirus lockdown, which is preventing cancer victims from getting treatment.

Figures also show that there were more excess deaths during the 2017-18 flu season (around 50,000) than the total number of people in the UK who have died from coronavirus (41,433).

However, a survey conducted last month found that Brits thought around 7 per cent of the population, 5 million people, had been killed by COVID-19.

I do have feeling that we try too hard to fight something which is not as bad as we thought it will be. First with lockdowns, will masks will be next?

patnor1011 wrote: »

I do have feeling that we try too hard to fight something which is not as bad as we thought it will be. First with lockdowns, will masks will be next?

I think your first query is being discussed elsewhere on the forum re: is the price of the restrictions worth it.

But specifically on masks, given how low cost, low economic impact they are, I can see them being the longest running of almost all the measures. Along with say 1 metre social distancing. If anything, we will see masks in more places as other restrictions lift.

Would people have taken to social distancing and mask wearing to the same extent, or at all, if that was all that was brought in in March? Think the lockdown was a required step to get people to comply with the lesser requirements we are now dealing with.

MadYaker

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Back in March we were reading people in China were dropping dead in the streets from Covid.

More bull.

No we weren't. You do this constantly. Just make up random events from the past that never happened to justify some nonsense point. Makes you sound like a nutter. Can you find a single headline from anywhere about people dropping dead in the streets from covid?

robinph wrote: »

Would people have taken to social distancing and mask wearing to the same extent, or at all, if that was all that was brought in in March? Think the lockdown was a required step to get people to comply with the lesser requirements we are now dealing with.

The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people

Jim_Hodge

GT89 wrote: »

The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people

Yes, the governments of many nations just want a populace that keeps a couple of metres apart, while wearing face covering, as the economy suffers because of some grand plan to create a complaint people.

Would you cop on?

GT89 wrote: »

The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people

Compliance with a public health measure during a pandemic which has claimed the lives of over 1000 Irish people.
This virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people?
I'll just leave the moral bankruptcy of your comment hanging there for people to form their own opinions.

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Yes, the governments of many nations just want a populace that keeps a couple of metres apart, while wearing face covering, as the economy suffers because of some grand plan to create a complaint people.

Would you cop on?

Explain why the wealth of people such as Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos has increased then?

odyssey06 wrote: »

Compliance with a public health measure during a pandemic which has claimed the lives of over 1000 Irish people.
This virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people?
I'll just leave the moral bankruptcy of your comment hanging there for people to form their own opinions.

Died with CV19 not of CV19

Jim_Hodge

GT89 wrote: »

Explain why the wealth of people such as Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos has increased then?

GT89 wrote: »

Died with CV19 not of CV19

You really don't get it, do you?

You obviously enjoy playing this part. Time for the IGNORE option.

robinph wrote: »

Would people have taken to social distancing and mask wearing to the same extent, or at all, if that was all that was brought in in March? Think the lockdown was a required step to get people to comply with the lesser requirements we are now dealing with.

It's an interesting question.
Some sort of lockdown yes, not necessarily of the duration \ number of phases we had.

And certainly I think people would have taken to mask wearing during said lockdown had the policy been rolled out then - and had the masks been available.

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

You really don't get it, do you?

You obviously enjoy playing this part. Time for the IGNORE option.

I get that it's exaggerated

SeaBreezes

GT89 wrote: »

The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people

Not 4 posts ago you claimed the virus wasnt deadly to 99.9%.

Now.you claim 99%.

I can see your a man/woman of science..

pjohnson

GT89 wrote: »

Explain why the wealth of people such as Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos has increased then?

Christ you dont stop digging do you.

GT89 wrote: »

The measures are all about compliance nothing to do with people's health as this virus isn't very deadly to 99% of people

What is the reason for most countries around the world, of all political colours, to have simultaneously come up with the same plans to force their populations into lockdown and mask wearing. If it wasn't for the health of their population then what was it for?

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Not 4 posts ago you claimed the virus wasnt deadly to 99.9%.

Now.you claim 99%.

I can see your a man/woman of science..

Meant to say 99.9% the second time.

I'm not a man of science but I can smell a rat

GT89 wrote: »

Died with CV19 not of CV19

You are well aware of the concept of excess mortality as this canard has been rebutted on this forum multiple times already.
Over 1000 Irish people have died from this virus.
Similar spikes of excess mortality have been reported all over Europe.
Anyone claiming otherwise at this stage is just spreading fake news.

To go with the moral bankruptcy of your position, you now go for intellectual bankruptcy.

robinph wrote: »

What is the reason for most countries around the world, of all political colours, to have simultaneously come up with the same plans to force their populations into lockdown and mask wearing. If it wasn't for the health of their population then what was it for?

To get more compliance from their population it's not governments making these decisions they are puppets on strings for international organisations like the UN and NATO. It will benefit big business at the end of the day more compliance will mean more money spent even if it means a but of short term pain.

Look around all the businesses closing down because of lockdown are small independents whilst big companies are surviving fine.

one world order

I haven't worn a mask during this fear induced media craze and I won't be either. I also won't be taking their vaccine when the government forces it on the population. Sweden haven't bothered with this world agenda and we should be moving back to normality rather than forcing people to do things they wouldn't normally do, based on a virus with a death rate of less than 0.1%.

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's an interesting question.
Some sort of lockdown yes, not necessarily of the duration \ number of phases we had.

And certainly I think people would have taken to mask wearing during said lockdown had the policy been rolled out then - and had the masks been available.

There was plenty of time during lockdown to have told people to have made their own face coverings. I had commissioned a couple of sets to be made for my clan by a parent / grandparent before lockdown even started. Since got more of better design done in time before the mask rules then came in.

Sconsey

GT89 wrote: »

Meant to say 99.9% the second time.

I'm not a man of science but I can smell a rat

You'll have more success on the conspiracy theories forum, your nonsense is wasted in this thread.

pjohnson

one world order wrote: »

I haven't worn a mask during this fear induced media craze and I won't be either. I also won't be taking their vaccine when the government forces it on the population. Sweden haven't bothered with this world agenda and we should be moving back to normality rather than forcing people to do things they wouldn't normally do, based on a virus with a death rate of less than 0.1%.

Username checks out.

odyssey06 wrote: »

You are well aware of the concept of excess mortality as this canard has been rebutted on this forum multiple times already.
Over 1000 Irish people have died from this virus.
Similar spikes of excess mortality have been reported all over Europe.
Anyone claiming otherwise at this stage is just spreading fake news.

To go with the moral bankruptcy of your position, you now go for intellectual bankruptcy.

Why did the UK knock 5k deaths off their official toll then? Could the excess be because of people being too scared to go into hospital that needed hospital treatment. Drug use and suicides all up during lockdown too. Cancer screenings closed during lockdown putting people at risk.

robinph wrote: »

There was plenty of time during lockdown to have told people to have made their own face coverings. I had commissioned a couple of sets to be made for my clan by a parent / grandparent before lockdown even started. Since got more of better design done in time before the mask rules then came in.

Yes but I think it would have also led to a rush on buying other types of masks too.
Also, it took a long time (too long) for experts here to excrete the wrong information from China about the relative risk of fomite v respiratory transmission and to stop thinking about coverings as PPE but rather as something for the infected and presymptomatic.
And also to excrete the wrong information that only symptomatic people could spread it.

one world order wrote: »

I haven't worn a mask during this fear induced media craze and I won't be either. I also won't be taking their vaccine when the government forces it on the population. Sweden haven't bothered with this world agenda and we should be moving back to normality rather than forcing people to do things they wouldn't normally do, based on a virus with a death rate of less than 0.1%.

Sweden's death rate is worse than ours and their economy contracted by 8% so they didn't get off scot free on that side either.
I wouldn't be taking their example on anything covid-19 related.
Nice cities though.

Most of the peope who raise Sweden as an example don't care how many people died from coroanvirus, they'd still say let's move on.

Czech repulic didn't follow the European agenda on masks in Spring and look at how many lives they saved by showing initiative.
They are the example we should be following.

GT89 wrote: »

Why did the UK knock 5k deaths off their official toll then? Could the excess be because of people being too scared to go into hospital that needed hospital treatment. Drug use and suicides all up during lockdown too. Cancer screenings closed during lockdown putting people at risk.

The excess mortality figures are independent of the official toll. That the official toll is corrected shows they are taken seriously and follow a proper methodology.
The adjusted UK death toll still shows tens of thousand of deaths.
But sure, you have shown with your moral bankruptcy you don't care how many people died.

You'll have to show me some actual figures on the other scenarios for any of this to be believable.
How many people died from suicide or drugs from March to June 2020?