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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #2792
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    But I agree, it is not a short term problem

    -8.5% in 0-16 months
    - X% in 6-12 months
    .....
    .....
    .....
    .....
    .....

    2 to 5 years more on that timeline.

    That is why we need to take hard action and grow a pair.
    Another lock down and you can add another decade of paying for this. The 2008 recession had only to do with financial sector and 12 years later we still paying for it.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2793
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    I agree with you there, cancer screening etc. should be going full tilt, in separate facilities as needed.

    But they haven’t been because instead of providing objective information the government use the mass media to proclaim their opinions. People freaked out, and some already died in an effect.

    In Ireland 10k people is diagnosed with cancer every quarter. It is roughly that many people who did not receive their diagnosis...

    What is needed is, as you referenced somewhere above, someone growing balls and employing second order thinking in all this. It is not the most immediate outcomes that will be the most of value and importance here.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2794
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    But they haven’t been because instead of providing objective information the government use the mass media to proclaim their opinions. People freaked out, and some already died in an effect.

    In Ireland 10k people is diagnosed with cancer every quarter. It is roughly that many people who did not receive their diagnosis...

    What is needed is, as you referenced somewhere above, is someone growing balls and employing second order thinking in all this. It is not the most immediate outcomes that will be the most of value and importance here.

    I'm open to realistic suggestions. The only solution to the problem including the second order effects is a hard short term lockdown. It would pay for itself 10 times over in the long run.

    Reopen and hope for the best isn't a plan.


  • #2795
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    I'm open to realistic suggestions. The only solution to the problem including the second order effects is a hard short term lockdown. It would pay for itself 10 times over in the long run.

    Reopen and hope for the best isn't a plan.

    And how is what you propose (Hard lockdown) different from what we have done initially?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2796
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    And how is what you propose (Hard lockdown) different from what we have done initially?

    It is all or nothing.

    Border control has to be sorted. Then the impossible job of getting public buy in to buy back their freedom with delayed gratification. Sort out the finances of allowing people stay home. Design better safeguards for and around the essential workers and stop everything that is non essential for a while.

    Loads to go wrong by a typical inept Irish government.

    But it is the solution.


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  • #2797
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,071 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I know you think the only links Ireland has with the world is drunks on holiday but I can assure that's not the case.

    Irelands GDP is produced almost entirely by FDI companies.

    If this never ending lockdown you propose comes to pass I hope they give the educated citizen's a chance to leave Ireland for good before its implemented.
    You mean "critical thinkers" I assume?


  • #2798
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    It is all or nothing.

    Border control has to be sorted. Then the impossible job of getting public buy in to buy back their freedom with delayed gratification. Sort out the finances of allowing people stay home. Design better safeguards for and around the essential workers and stop everything that is non essential for a while.

    Loads to go wrong by a typical inept Irish government.

    But it is the solution.

    China and New Zealand have failed. And the Chinese took really hard stance with their strategy. What makes you think Ireland would succeed?

    We have ministers not adhering to the guidelines. How can we expect citizens to buy into all that?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2799
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    China and New Zealand have failed. And the Chinese took really hard stance with their strategy. What makes you think Ireland would succeed?

    Relative to us and everyone else, they haven't failed. That is ridiculous.

    I don't know for sure if we would succeed. I'm am fairly sure we won't with the current plan.


  • #2800
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    Relative to us and everyone else, they haven't failed. That is ridiculous.

    I don't know for sure if we would succeed. I'm am fairly sure we won't with the current plan.

    How do you define success in this case?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2801
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    How do you define success in this case?

    Returning to real life (on our island at least) with minimal restrictions, safely.


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  • #2802
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    Returning to real life (on our island at least) with minimal restrictions, safely.

    How do we seal a border, even if we do with NI, how do we stop free movement from NI to UK. This real life your talking about obviously has no tourism. I know it all sounds good in your head but no other country in the world had done it and you think we can. Your delusional man.


  • #2803
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    How do we seal a border, even if we do with NI, how do we stop free movement from NI to UK. This real life your talking about obviously has no tourism. I know it all sounds good in your head but no other country in the world had done it and you think we can. Your delusional man.

    None as blind as those who won't see.

    There is no end in sight with the current plans. That is delusional.

    How do you imagine the end game?


  • #2804
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    Returning to real life (on our island at least) with minimal restrictions, safely.

    In that case no lock down, especially a hard one, is necessary. Let’s put Covid into the same basket with pneumonia, flu etc, for which we all came to terms that a number of people die off annually, and for which we do not shut down the country. Shutting down the country is an utter overkill for what transpires to be a mild virus.

    It is time to ask questions and investigate who will benefit from hammered economies.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2805
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    In that case no lock down, especially hard one, is not necessary. Let’s put Covid into the same basket with pneumonia, flu etc, for which we all came to terms that a number of people die off annually, and for which we do not shut down the country. Shutting down the country is an utter overkill fir what transpires to be a mild virus.

    That is stupid

    The nuclear option


  • #2806
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    None as blind as those who won't see.

    There is no end in sight with the current plans. That is delusional.

    How do you imagine the end game?

    Accept people will die, stop being so scared of the ****en thing, no country in Europe has had their hospitals overwhelmed since they eased restrictions, most of them are miles ahead of us. People will die, its a pandemic, its tragic, but unavoidable.


  • #2807
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    walus wrote: »
    In that case no lock down, especially a hard one, is necessary. Let’s put Covid into the same basket with pneumonia, flu etc, for which we all came to terms that a number of people die off annually, and for which we do not shut down the country. Shutting down the country is an utter overkill for what transpires to be a mild virus.

    It is time to ask questions and investigate who will benefit from hammered economies.

    While still maintaining social distancing, masks and hygiene measures I presume then I would totally agree.


  • #2808
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    That is stupid

    The nuclear option

    Stupid is wishing that reality was different than it really is.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2809
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    While still maintaining social distancing, masks and hygiene measures I presume then I would totally agree.

    That's the point, kill the virus from this island and live without all that.

    Getting your life back is well worth the sacrifice needed to get there.


  • #2810
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,150 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Game over for Phil Hogan now


  • #2811
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    niallo27 wrote: »
    While still maintaining social distancing, masks and hygiene measures I presume then I would totally agree.

    For sure, maintain a cautious approach.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



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  • #2812
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    That's the point, kill the virus from this island and live without all that.

    Getting your life back is well worth the sacrifice needed to get there.

    That is lunacy. Ireland as a part of global market and economy is not an island.
    And when do you open up to the world that still has the virus in circulation?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2813
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    Stupid is wishing that reality was different than it really is.

    Exactly ;)


  • #2814
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    That is lunacy. Ireland as a part of global market and economy is not an island.

    As is New Zealand, Vietnam, China, Taiwan et al

    You just lack imagination


  • #2815
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    That's the point, kill the virus from this island and live without all that.

    Getting your life back is well worth the sacrifice needed to get there.

    We are too far gone though, it would take 6-8 week total lockdown which would destroy the economy. I have no figures to back this up but I would say the open pubs and restaurants are actually doing OK for themselves since opening. I went to the crescent in limerick last Friday, main shopping centre. Place was packed, loads of shopping bags. It was like Christmas. Are things that bad.


  • #2816
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    We are too far gone though, it would take 6-8 week total lockdown which would destroy the economy. I have no figures to back this up but I would say the open pubs and restaurants are actually doing OK for themselves since opening. I went to the crescent in limerick last Friday, main shopping centre. Place was packed, loads of shopping bags. It was like Christmas. Are things that bad.

    6-8 weeks won't destroy anything.

    2-5 years more of this hoping for a vaccine will destroy everything though. Also im laughing how between the pair of you, you somehow talked yourself into the exact situation we are in now being the holy grail.


  • #2817
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    6-8 weeks won't destroy anything.

    2-5 years more of this hoping for a vaccine will destroy everything though. Also im laughing how between the pair of you, you somehow talked yourself into the exact situation we are in now being the holy grail.

    Ah stop you headerball 5 years cut off from the rest of the world. What industry to you would in if you mind me asking, public sector job I presume.


  • #2818
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Ah stop you headerball 5 years cut off from the rest of the world. What industry to you would in if you mind me asking, public sector job I presume.

    You are attributing something to me that i never said.

    I work for myself and i am dependent on a strong economic as much as everyone else, but i can also prioritise and money isn't everything, we will all get over that aspect as we did 10 years ago.

    Except if we really screw it up by following an ignorant approach and it is a deep depression.


  • #2819
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    You are attributing something to me that i never said.

    I work for myself and i am dependent on a strong economic as much as everyone else, but i can also prioritise and money isn't everything, we will all get over that aspect as we did 10 years ago.

    Except if we really screw it up by following an ignorant approach and it is a deep depression.

    The rest of the world is following the same approach as us so will incur a deep depression as you say, our economy is hugely dependent on foreign investment so how do we combat this in your approach or is it all about saving lives at whatever cost for you.


  • #2820
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    The rest of the world is following the same approach as us so will incur a deep depression as you say, our economy is hugely dependent on foreign investment so how do we combat this in your approach or is it all about saving lives at whatever cost for you.

    You are making my point for me

    So recognising the global scale of the problem, how will opening a few pubs and clubs be the panacea for the economy to recover.

    #blinkered


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  • #2821
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    You are making my point for me

    So recognising the global scale of the problem, how will opening a few pubs and clubs be the panacea for the economy to recover.

    #blinkered

    Ok so do you want a worldwide collective approach or just Ireland, you haven't really thought this through have you.


This discussion has been closed.
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