Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

VANG1 · 23-08-2020 10:50am

Will a semi final have a non Munster origin ref?

molloyjh · 23-08-2020 10:51am

Buer wrote: »

So for the short term future, it seems we'll have Kelleher, Keenan or ROL in the squad. I imagine ROL will be covering wing a bit.

It seems logical that RK comes in at 15 and Larmour shifts which is no bad thing anyway if RK is fully fit.

The set piece has to be a massive concern. That was as bad a line out performance as I can recall from Leinster and it wasn't even largely down to Munster. Leinster managed to botch lineouts with no challenger. There was obviously more wrong than just throwing but Kelleher's spot will be under threat if it isn't sorted quickly; some of his throws were far from accurate. Even the one that led to Healy's try looked very crooked to me.

Discipline was not great either but I thought the referee did go hard on us a bit with a couple of very soft penalty calls. You'd be hard pressed to find a game where Leinster conceded 17 penalties in the last few years before last night. With that said, they still need to tighten up in that area. Some sloppy penalties conceded in the opposition 22 for ruck entry which were likely to have cost us points, notably Henshaw coming in at the side and then 2 or 3 guys going straight off their feet near the posts.

Munster are going to be back in 2 weeks for another shot and will possibly improve as well as have some guys available. If the same discipline and set piece issues persist, it's going to be the toss of a coin for who wins. I think Toner has to come back into the side.

I don't think the Doris and Conan situation really worked. Conan was prominent early on but faded and the opposite was true for Doris. There's a case for moving Fardy to blindside for some extra heft and target in the set piece or Ruddock in as a pack leader and a bit of calm up front.

With next week a complete dead rubber for both sides, it will be interesting to see what team is selected. I imagine there will be a lot of change with most of that pack not starting. We don't really have that luxury in the back line at the moment.

Possible team for next week:
Byrne Cronin Furlong
Molony Toner
Ruddock Deegan Connors

JGP Byrne
JOB ROL
Kelleher RKearney Keenan

Tracy, Dooley, Bent, Baird, Murphy, Osbourne, HByrne, TOB

I think we'll look to use this to give as many guys minutes as possible. We need to have options in ever position that can come in when/if needed.

This could be an issue for the SF as Munster can look to go all out again next week given no European commitments, meaning they could develop a lot more cohesion over the 2 weeks than we can.

CMcsporty · 23-08-2020 11:18am

Ringrose was a cut above the rest yesterday.
MOM
Clear headed and also has good temperament to handle captaincy.
https://twitter.com/ciantracey1/status/1297447192878350336?s=21

CMcsporty · 23-08-2020 11:22am

Delighted to see Henshaw implementing the graver.
Sorely missing by Leinster and Ireland centres over the last couple of years.
https://twitter.com/ciantracey1/status/1297469102185779203?s=21

Aki doesn’t bring that. Although let’s see tomorrow!

CMcsporty · 23-08-2020 11:25am

Great work by the Leinster BR and Baird for the 3rd try.
I’d play the same combination v Saracens
https://twitter.com/ek_rugby/status/1297452269865242625?s=21

CMcsporty · 23-08-2020 11:39am

v Saracens

Dorris
Conan
VdF
Fardy
Toner

20. Baird
He looks good enough already but just a bit light for a Saracens

If only Tomane was still here. He’d be a great addition at 14.

Actually that’s mad. Why is he gone? Lowe IQ now. Tomane could be kept and played in his best position.

Probably have to bring in RK now.
Lowe
Larmour
RK

23-08-2020 11:48am

In retrospect we we're relatively poor last night. With the significant injuries Munster picked up and the amount of training time they lost in the build up, we were quite lucky to come away with the win.

There was a period in the second half where we looked fully in control so it's disappointing that we opened the door for Munster to come back into the game.

After Toner intercepted, Ringrose put the ball right inside the Munster 5m line and you could see both sets of forwards barely jogging back - legs were gone.

Good blow out, but Munster get some continuity in the preceding two weeks and don't pick up as many injuries and I think we'd have coughed up a loss to be honest.

sydthebeat · 23-08-2020 11:56am

The pen against fardy and an other for flopping over the ruck within the munster 5 meter line was poor.

Bridge93 · 23-08-2020 11:58am

Discipline and line out were poor. At 24-13 with 30 left and Munster halfway through their bench there was scope to really drive it home. Instead the opposite happened

There were some very harsh decisions that went against them at the same time

23-08-2020 12:00pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

The pen against fardy and an other for flopping over the ruck within the munster 5 meter line was poor.

There was a penalty against us for side entry that wasn't a penalty and Stander got a turnover lying flat over the ruck. We definitely didn't play the ref at the breakdown and failed to adapt giving Stander free reign to pilfer the ball. Thought Stander was exceptional all day - my motm followed by Ringrose.

sydthebeat · 23-08-2020 12:04pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There was a penalty against us for side entry that wasn't a penalty and Stander got a turnover lying flat over the ruck. We definitely didn't play the ref at the breakdown and failed to adapt giving Stander free reign to pilfer the ball. Thought Stander was exceptional all day - my motm followed by Ringrose.

Dead right on the stander one, I could count 6 studs on each foot.

If you're referring to the Conan side entry, I think it was fair enough.

The healy one was weird. Fair enough the ruck had formed but by the time healy got down onto the ball all players were on the ground. The ref said "second bite" so maybe cian had to ruck through and let another leinster player pick it up.

salmocab · 23-08-2020 12:08pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In retrospect we we're relatively poor last night. With the significant injuries Munster picked up and the amount of training time they lost in the build up, we were quite lucky to come away with the win.

There was a period in the second half where we looked fully in control so it's disappointing that we opened the door for Munster to come back into the game.

After Toner intercepted, Ringrose put the ball right inside the Munster 5m line and you could see both sets of forwards barely jogging back - legs were gone.

Good blow out, but Munster get some continuity in the preceding two weeks and don't pick up as many injuries and I think we'd have coughed up a loss to be honest.

I don’t buy into the Munster continuity thing or the injuries, Munster played decent and seemed a bit more together than Leinster were but Leinster looked a bit more natural and able to turn things on. It’s an odd start/finish to the season and I wouldn’t read anything into either teams performance.
The injury thing happens too much to get caught up in what ifs, I believe in the butterfly effect if the two Munster lads didn’t go off it would have been a completely different game but that doesn’t mean they would have necessarily done better. When you go down that rabbit hole then you have to go to should there have been a yellow or refs missing penalties or whatever and it’s a waste of time.
It was actually a good game considering albeit error strewn. Some players have a knack of coming out from the cold at full tilt or close to it others will take a couple of games.

pickarooney · 23-08-2020 12:31pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

With only one NIQ now in the entire squad, it would be class if Leinster could bring in a real superstar on the wing. Wonder if Daly on a season loan might be an option...

I mean we probably already have a shirt printed with that name and number which we won't be needing. Shame to waste it

KH25 · 23-08-2020 12:49pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Dead right on the stander one, I could count 6 studs on each foot.

If you're referring to the Conan side entry, I think it was fair enough.

The healy one was weird. Fair enough the ruck had formed but by the time healy got down onto the ball all players were on the ground. The ref said "second bite" so maybe cian had to ruck through and let another leinster player pick it up.

That Stander call was blatant and a very poor decision. Conan definitely came in from the side so that was fair. I also couldn’t understand the Healy one. It looked like the ball was there to be won?

Bridge93 · 23-08-2020 12:56pm

My issue with the Healy one was he had hands on ball, stander threw himself on top of it off his feet knocking Healy off it. He then went back and picked it up again.

Maybe there was a ruck but it wasn’t obvious to me first time. Must watch it back

Clegg · 23-08-2020 1:37pm

I wonder what Cullen has in mind for the Ulster game. It's clear that the players who started against Munster need more game time to be ready for the knockouts, but this game will be the only chance to rest them between now and the Euro QF. Assuming we win the league SF.

Buer · 23-08-2020 1:51pm

I would think there will be a lot of rotation but a few guys will play next week who started last night. Baird, Doris moving to 8 and maybe give Kelleher a run with Toner.

We're fairly stretched in the back line so I'd expect one of Henshaw or Ringrose to remain alongside ROL. RK and Cian Kelleher into the back three.

I'd like to see more of Keenan but the run of games and need for RK to get match fit now might not be conducive to him playing much if at all before next season.

Guinness RFC · 23-08-2020 2:07pm

You’d have to think Ulster will go after our lineout if Kelleher starts. I’d be wary of starting him and having his confidence and possibly career shot to pieces in the space of two games.

On the lineout, I think there was no communication between thrower and jumper (or Healy who usually relays the calls). Hence before the ball was even thrown there was a breakdown in systems. Kelleher needs to compose himself and take his time even if the ref/opposition is rushing him.

If he doesn’t get a clear call communicated he is taking the result of the game and his own career into his hands. Then he needs to nail the timing of the throw. Another reason not to get rushed. He should do it like a kicker- 5 deep breaths then throw/jump. Now if he can at least show consistency in throwing technique and timing then other people are to blame if he hits his spot.

It is imperative he doesn’t get rushed or flustered or he can kiss his career goodbye.

CMcsporty · 23-08-2020 2:13pm

Kelleher throwing wasn’t the problem yesterday.
He’s plenty good enough.

Leinster lineout was disjointed and Munster were excellent at attacking it.

First game in 5 months!

sydthebeat · 23-08-2020 2:14pm

CMcsporty wrote: »

Kelleher throwing wasn’t the problem yesterday.
He’s plenty good enough.

Leinster lineout was disjointed and Munster were excellent at attacking it.

First game in 5 months!

With two line out callers who wouldn't be first choice (Ryan and toner would be)

CMcsporty · 23-08-2020 2:16pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

With two line out callers who wouldn't be first choice (Ryan and toner would be)

And it’s actually 6 months since Kelleher last played!

He should be starting v Italy

stephen_n · 23-08-2020 2:18pm

CMcsporty wrote: »

Kelleher throwing wasn’t the problem yesterday.
He’s plenty good enough.

Leinster lineout was disjointed and Munster were excellent at attacking it.

First game in 5 months!

Calling was definitely off but a couple of his throws were way too high though regardless of timing.

First game back, talk of it being a problem for his career is just plain ridiculous though.

The Lost Sheep · 23-08-2020 2:25pm

Guinness RFC wrote: »

You’d have to think Ulster will go after our lineout if Kelleher starts. I’d be wary of starting him and having his confidence and possibly career shot to pieces in the space of two games.

On the lineout, I think there was no communication between thrower and jumper (or Healy who usually relays the calls). Hence before the ball was even thrown there was a breakdown in systems. Kelleher needs to compose himself and take his time even if the ref/opposition is rushing him.

If he doesn’t get a clear call communicated he is taking the result of the game and his own career into his hands. Then he needs to nail the timing of the throw. Another reason not to get rushed. He should do it like a kicker- 5 deep breaths then throw/jump. Now if he can at least show consistency in throwing technique and timing then other people are to blame if he hits his spot.

It is imperative he doesn’t get rushed or flustered or he can kiss his career goodbye.

Going on about his career is a bit ott.
He was up against a very strong defensive lineout.

CMcsporty wrote: »

And it’s actually 6 months since Kelleher last played!

He should be starting v Italy

Its 5/6 months since all played a game. He made few mistakes. No he shouldnt start against Italy.

CMcsporty · 23-08-2020 2:28pm

Why should he not start then?

Because of all the excellent options ahead of him?

sydthebeat · 23-08-2020 2:32pm

He's our best open field hooker currently.

Get his set piece sorted and he definitely should be starting against Italy.

Henderson calling, alongside kleyn, would be fine for Italy. They haven't exactly got a defensive lineout to fear

stephen_n · 23-08-2020 2:36pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

He's our best open field hooker currently.

Get his set piece sorted and he definitely should be starting against Italy.

Henderson calling, alongside kleyn, would be fine for Italy. They haven't exactly got a defensive lineout to fear

Sean Cronin might disagree.

Clegg · 23-08-2020 2:36pm

We'll definitely see some rotation. Furlong needs some minutes before the SF so hopefully he's ready for next week. Some with Rob Kearney and Ruddock.

Is there any chance Leavy might feature? By the sounds of it Leinster are being very cautious with him so I guess he's probably not taking part until next season. Starting backrow should be Ruddock, Connors and Deegan.

Kelleher should start again. Give him a chance to iron out the kinks from the Munster game. Start Toner too and give him a good caller and target.

Richie_Rich89 · 23-08-2020 2:42pm

Good result. Edinburgh can't be caught now, I believe, so it's Munster or the Scarlets in the semi final in two weeks' time. The dynamics around the Connacht-Munster game are interesting. The IRFU/Nucifora won't want Munster to lose and potentially miss out on the semis. Friend is very much a company man. Will he be ordered to send out a weakened team for this clash?

Clegg · 23-08-2020 2:43pm

Also, fair play to Jack Conan. First game in almost a year and played quite well. Looked very tired in the second half which is understandable.

CMcsporty · 23-08-2020 3:13pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Sean Cronin might disagree.

I think Cronin is done at international level.

Kelleher is already the best open field hooker. 22 years old. Head on his shoulders.
He should be straight in v Italy.

Starting hooker for one of the best sides in Europe.
Will be packing down with an all Leinster front row.
Will be throwing to at least 1 Leinster jumpers.
Stronger than other options.
Better turnover threat than other options.
Better off-loader than any other options.

No idea about scrummaging ability. Played 14 senior games? I’m sure he’s going to improve.

Ireland side in general is also desperately in need of fresh blood.
He’s a very safe bet.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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