How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

wirelessdude01 · 23-08-2020 10:52AM

irishblessing wrote: »

I have already posted them. Many times.

Furthermore, it's the principals and some teachers in the know/BOM's who knew from an early stage that the plans weren't workable in most of the schools. Parents were in the dark up until very recently in the past few days/week when we finally received the plan for our kids school. Some are still in the dark. Yet I remember reading on here you and others expected parents to get on the protest march completely uniformed and in the dark and nothing to be able to tangibly speak to.

When the pressure it turned back on you there is no answer provided as to why you's can't and in fact don't have a responsibility to strike here. Especially in light of your own communications and concerns being ignored. So essentially it's what, oh well at least I tried? If only I had another legal right available to me... damn!

Parents have access to the exact same plan that we got. It isn't hidden behind some portal, publicly available.

iamwhoiam · 23-08-2020 10:52AM

the corpo wrote: »

Wonder will there be some movement on masks in primary this week. One of the union heads, not John Boyle, was on Newstalk breakfast this morning expressing concern about it, and saying how Canada this week are making them mandatory from 3rd class up.

3rd class in Canada or here ? As far as I know 3rd class there would be our 1st or 2nd ?

irishblessing · 23-08-2020 10:53AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And feeds into the mindset of those on here who consider teachers to be lazy.

You feed into it yourself. Between the two of us, "Above my pay grade," sure wasn't typed by me.

And this discussion re strikes takes away from nothing. What is the point of moaning on here instead of discussion valid solutions when facing very real dangers.

I have a few friends who are teachers, and they are wonderful and lovely people who seem to be great and passionate in their fields.
However the attitudes and aggressive and passive aggressive posting by some teachers here has definitely opened my eyes to another side.

downthemiddle · 23-08-2020 10:54AM

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Teachers and students are encouraged to not become infected with SARS-CoV-2 "where possible"

Best advice I’ve seen!!!

Sunday Sunday · 23-08-2020 10:55AM

Drumpot wrote: »

https://n95maskco.com/collections/n95-masks

I saw a teacher in some thread ask about good masks to get. I’ve gotten some of above link. Some reviews from teachers in USA say they are much easier to breath in during a class day. I’ve seen these masks recommend by doctors and they are FDA approved. Not cheap and you need to know somebody in USA to buy them or have a USA card (as I was unable to buy them with my card).

I'd do my research before going down the n95 mask route. These are usually reserved for surgical workers and do not filter exhaled air.

Some suggest that this type of mask doesn't prevent the wearer from spreading the virus but only protects them from getting it.

wirelessdude01 · 23-08-2020 10:55AM

the corpo wrote: »

Wonder will there be some movement on masks in primary this week. One of the union heads, not John Boyle, was on Newstalk breakfast this morning expressing concern about it, and saying how Canada this week are making them mandatory from 3rd class up.

Was John Boyle from INTO.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/back-school-covid-19-planning-1064926

wirelessdude01 · 23-08-2020 10:58AM

irishblessing wrote: »

You feed into it yourself. Between the two of us, "Above my pay grade," sure wasn't typed by me.

And this discussion re strikes takes away from nothing. What is the point of moaning on here instead of discussion valid solutions when facing very real dangers.

I have a few friends who are teachers, and they are wonderful and lovely people who seem to be great and passionate in their fields.
However the attitudes and aggressive and passive aggressive posting by some teachers here has definitely opened my eyes to another side.

Ohh sorry that we all aren't like something from Little House in the Prairie.

Striking isn't a valid option at all, now that is my opinion and union stance on that might change given time but I highly doubt it.

khalessi · 23-08-2020 10:58AM

irishblessing wrote: »

I have already posted them. Many times.

Furthermore, it's the principals and some teachers in the know/BOM's who knew from an early stage that the plans weren't workable in most of the schools. Parents were in the dark up until very recently in the past few days/week when we finally received the plan for our kids school. Some are still in the dark. Yet I remember reading on here you and others expected parents to get on the protest march completely uniformed and in the dark and nothing to be able to tangibly speak to.

When the pressure it turned back on you there is no answer provided as to why you's can't and in fact don't have a responsibility to strike here. Especially in light of your own communications and concerns being ignored. So essentially it's what, oh well at least I tried? If only I had another legal right available to me... damn!

Did you also read on here, the reactions of people when the inadequacies of the plan was called out? It was the usual teachers are cowards/lazy or put them on covid pay and they will go back quick enough, hysterical gets a few mentions too and still is etc.

But now the message is slowly getting through. It was explained over and over what the government should do, what would work and what would not work, on this thread, its predecessor and other threads since March and all the way through teachers were bashed for it and still are as we are too negative etc.

The priniciples passed their views up the line and they were ignored, it was open or be dammed and that was before our government was in crisis. They are looking for a win and getting the schools open for them is it.

Keeping them open on the other hand is another story.

mirrorwall14 · 23-08-2020 11:00AM

That’s one of the first photos of primary school I’ve seen that reflects the reality of the distance they had on those diagrams between students. This is literally no different to a normal junior infants classroom

the corpo · 23-08-2020 11:01AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

3rd class in Canada or here ? As far as I know 3rd class there would be our 1st or 2nd ?

He said their equivelant of 3rd to 6th here

Thierry12 · 23-08-2020 11:02AM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Do you believe that this is the case?

Not sure

We will soon find out with the schools

At least we will have answers

the corpo · 23-08-2020 11:04AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Was John Boyle from INTO.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/back-school-covid-19-planning-1064926

Yah, it was the ASTI guy that was talking about masks in Canada though. Not that it matters, I'm for it though!

wirelessdude01 · 23-08-2020 11:06AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5686712

Now I think that kindergarden is too young but look at the difference in attitude towards the health of students and staff.

Thierry12 · 23-08-2020 11:07AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yet they estimate that 1.7% of Ireland has been exposed to it. How do you balance that with your theory that it 'passed through the population long ago'?

They have no clue, just like me

Its gonna go 2 ways

We open up schools with 1 million students and thousands are not sick, its passed

If its not passed tens of thousands are gonna be sick and many are going to die

It will be interesting few weeks thats for sure

ShaShaBear · 23-08-2020 11:08AM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

That’s one of the first photos of primary school I’ve seen that reflects the reality of the distance they had on those diagrams between students. This is literally no different to a normal junior infants classroom

Almost identical to my daughter's Junior Infants classroom. 5 to a pod and close enough that one could put their hands on another's back. Not even remotely physically possible for them to separate the tables any more than that in the size of room they have. And only 15 students in the class, so that's saying something!

irishblessing · 23-08-2020 11:12AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Parents have access to the exact same plan that we got. It isn't hidden behind some portal, publicly available.

So why were teachers on here, including yourself, telling parent's to protest when we had literally ZERO information. You ask me for my solutions, which I have already posted, yet your solution for parents to protest especially during a time which we had no information is ridiculous.

Further to that you still can't answer what the teach strike process is, and why it isn't a viable option.

Maybe what we actually need here is people to put their attitudes aside, come away from your battle corners you seem to be stuck in and actually work with parents, come together with us and protest as one. How can that be organised. Anyone have any idea. Do teachers need to all speak up to their unions, and parents to principals?

khalessi · 23-08-2020 11:15AM

irishblessing wrote: »

So why were teachers on here, including yourself, telling parent's to protest when we had literally ZERO information. You ask me for my solutions, which I have already posted, yet your solution for parents to protest especially during a time which we had no information is ridiculous.

Further to that you still can't answer what the teach strike process is, and why it isn't a viable option.

Maybe what we actually need here is people to put their attitudes aside, come away from your battle corners you seem to be stuck in and actually work with parents, come together with us and protest as one. How can that be organised. Anyone have any idea. Do teachers need to all speak up to their unions, and parents to principals?

Zero information, the information was explained here over and over since the plan came out on July 27th, and people chose to believe teachers were being hysterical. The parents were asked to question schools and voice concerns as traditionally teachers are not listened to.

froog · 23-08-2020 11:16AM

irishblessing wrote: »

it required teachers to have to strike in order to safeguard our children. Jfc

Children are not greatly at risk at all though. The danger here is kids spreading it to parents, grandparents etc. And teachers of course.

irishblessing · 23-08-2020 11:20AM

amacca wrote: »

in fairness whatever teacher strikes have been held in the past twenty years or so seemed to have achieved very little

there wasn't much in the way of public support, its hard to encourage a group of people to undertake an action that hasnt worked all that well

+ you could argue govt have been successful with their fairly transparent divide and conquer strategy since the 90s......their are groups within staffs that instead of working together for everyones mutual benefit will pull in different directions

govt also succeeded in ramming through different payscales that unions could do SFA about at the time

then consider the fact there are 3 different teaching unions that cant seem to work together .... this means divide and conquer is easier from Govt side as they only have to influence/pressure one smaller group to get them to go a different route to mess up everybody else.

in short they (teaching unions) have taken a pummelling and by going with the nuclear option (no matter if it was justified) reckon they will take another one so i reckon they are boxing clever now....and rightly so if that is the case

let the ball do the work on this one...the govt appear to have come up with a totally inept plan...the wheels will probably come off of their own accord....why give any ammunition to the baying cohort of irrational teacher haters out there and the sections of media that only love to whip up anti teacher sentiment (as its great for audience participation/clicks/revenue) + everyone needs somebody to hate right?

if the unions and teachers dont oppose it they cant be bashed as much although some will try no doubt but the main focus of the backlash will go where it should....

if the govt plan actually works and there is minimal fall out then it will still have been the wisest course of action to not oppose it

the other thing those calling for strike action need to consider is quite a large cohort of teachers are relatively normal people with families and mortgages too......and like a lot of people they are up to their tits in debt to sustain a mortgage and family.....that means they are weak when it comes to opposing something like this (ffs they are weak when it comes to opposing ever worsening conditions and gradual erosion of pay rates)....when you are a debt slave you are less likely to want to rock the boat....................there may not actually be the appetite for strike with a large enough group for it to be viable.

I missed this post earlier. My god, what a sh!t show. Our poor children. That's the problem, not working together.

One thing I will say is the public support will be there now. It's now our children and ourselves facing a scary reality. And for the first time really the issues in the education system some you've outlined here are being widely talked about now and blown open to a degree not seen before.

I just hate this negative thinking tbh. This, 'it's never worked, I just know it won't work,' etc self-defeating approach. This is too important , there's too much on the line to come at it like this.

Yeah there's always going to be people who are haters and well to tbf f-them. Do it anyway. The fear of backlash isn't a valid enough reason to sit on the hands. Because the 'ball doing the work on this one' as you say translates to some of us and or our children becoming sick, possibly for a long time, possibly permanent, and possibly death. Anyone taking a blasé approach is just hedging their bets it won't be them and theirs. Well that's probably all we can do now bar a miracle, watch the wrecking ball in action.

Your final paragraph really calls to focus the dire need for teacher's unions to get their collective sh!t together. Thanks for laying this out, appreciate it.

amacca · 23-08-2020 11:20AM

irishblessing wrote: »

So why were teachers on here, including yourself, telling parent's to protest when we had literally ZERO information. You ask me for my solutions, which I have already posted, yet your solution for parents to protest especially during a time which we had no information is ridiculous.

I thought he just told you the information was available to all ...both teachers and students, publicly available, not hidden etc

irishblessing wrote: »

Further to that you still can't answer what the teach strike process is, and why it isn't a viable option.

did you read my post regarding some of the issues around teachers striking and why there may be no appetite for it or do you just want to argue with one poster?.....ah edit I see you have

irishblessing wrote: »

Maybe what we actually need here is people to put their attitudes aside, come away from your battle corners you seem to be stuck in and actually work with parents, come together with us and protest as one. How can that be organised. Anyone have any idea. Do teachers need to all speak up to their unions, and parents to principals?

I must say this is a unique one, never thought I'd see teachers getting bashed for not striking, usually its the other way around:D

talk about damned if you do and damned if you dont

yes teachers need to speak up or a significant number of them........if you read my post you might see why that hasnt happened yet (which you have)

btw when teachers do strike they are usually very much on their own.....parents groups usually stay in their battle corners too

wirelessdude01 · 23-08-2020 11:21AM

irishblessing wrote: »

So why were teachers on here, including yourself, telling parent's to protest when we had literally ZERO information. You ask me for my solutions, which I have already posted, yet your solution for parents to protest especially during a time which we had no information is ridiculous.

Further to that you still can't answer what the teach strike process is, and why it isn't a viable option.

Maybe what we actually need here is people to put their attitudes aside, come away from your battle corners you seem to be stuck in and actually work with parents, come together with us and protest as one. How can that be organised. Anyone have any idea. Do teachers need to all speak up to their unions, and parents to principals?

The plan has been publicly available since the end of July. Parents were free to view and read it if they so wished.

Not quite sure why you are so enamoured with strike action. It isn't an option at the moment and doubt it.will become one.

Well I and others on here have called parents to make their feelings known. However they and you have to remember that schools aren't the enemy here. We are trying to get them open and keep them open, not go on strike like you want.

am_zarathustra · 23-08-2020 11:24AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

They have no clue, just like me

Its gonna go 2 ways

We open up schools with 1 million students and thousands are not sick, its passed

If its not passed tens of thousands are gonna be sick and many are going to die

It will be interesting few weeks thats for sure

Well a bunch of people with doctorates in the areas randomly tested people across the country to get this number. It's not just Ronan Glynns favourite percentage. It's very low in the population, very few people have been infected.

khalessi wrote: »

Zero information, the information was explained here over and over since the plan came out on July 27th, and people chose to believe teachers were being hysterical. The parents were asked to question schools and voice concerns as traditionally teachers are not listened to.

Agreed, it's all publically available information. The guidelines are garbage but everyone can see them. I think a lot of parents will get a shock when they see how little can actually be done with the woeful infrastructure we have and maybe we will stop spending such pittance on our education system. Teachers won't be listened to, the government through the media have painted us in a certain light to ensure we can be discredited. I didn't know any teachers who thought cancelling the LC was a good idea, I knew a lot of parents who did, vocal parents.....who won? The only way guidelines will change is if parents keep their kids at home en mass or become very vocal. All we can do as teachers is try and make our own spaces as safe as possible and try and protect the more vunerabel staff and students.

amacca · 23-08-2020 11:25AM

irishblessing wrote: »

Yeah there's always going to be people who are haters and well to tbf f-them. Do it anyway. The fear of backlash isn't a valid enough reason to sit on the hands. Because the 'ball doing the work on this one' as you say translates to some of us and or our children becoming sick, possibly for a long time, possibly permanent, and possibly death. Anyone taking a blasé approach is just hedging their bets it won't be them and theirs. Well that's probably all we can do now bar a miracle, watch the wrecking ball in action.

Your final paragraph really calls to focus the dire need for teacher's unions to get their collective sh!t together. Thanks for laying this out, appreciate it.

apologies, you did read and seem to understand some of the undercurrent now.....

irishblessing · 23-08-2020 11:26AM

amacca wrote: »

I thought he just told you the information was available to all ...both teachers and students, publicly available, not hidden etc

did you read my post regarding some of the issues around teachers striking and why there may be no appetite for it or do you just want to argue with one poster?.....ah edit I see you have

I must say this is a unique one, never thought I'd see teachers getting bashed for not striking, usually its the other way around:D

talk about damned if you do and damned if you dont

yes teachers need to speak up or a significant number of them........if you read my post you might see why that hasnt happened yet

btw when teachers do strike they are usually very much on their own.....parents groups usually stay in their battle corners too

And I thought I just told you that parent's had no idea those plans were not workable specific to our schools.

Not bashing, those are your words and defensiveness and nothing to do with me. An opposing or challenging opinion is not bashing.

All I can do is speak for myself and my spouse that as parents we would whole heartedly support a strike action. From my many conversations with other parents I believe they would too.

I'm also very sad to hear these struggles teachers face with their unions. WTF is the actual point of them then. Massive reform needed. The minister for education needs to do their actual job and sort this mess that falls under their jobs scope for which they are paid to do. Maybe we need to stop griping with each other and laser focus there.

khalessi · 23-08-2020 11:29AM

irishblessing wrote: »

And I thought I just told you that parent's had no idea those plans were not workable specific to our schools.

Not bashing, those are your words and defensiveness and nothing to do with me. An opposing or challenging opinion is not bashing.

All I can do is speak for myself and my spouse that as parents we would whole heartedly support a strike action. From my many conversations with other parents I believe they would too.

I'm also very sad to hear these struggles teachers face with their unions. WTF is the actual point of them then. Massive reform needed. The minister for education needs to do their actual job and sort this mess that falls under their jobs scope for which they are paid to do. Maybe we need to stop griping with each other and laser focus there.

That question is regularly asked in staffrooms, and other education forums as we have been let down over and over again by them. Most people join a union for legal protection these days and most teachers dont believe or trust in their union.

downthemiddle · 23-08-2020 11:31AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

They have no clue, just like me

Its gonna go 2 ways

We open up schools with 1 million students and thousands are not sick, its passed

If its not passed tens of thousands are gonna be sick and many are going to die

It will be interesting few weeks thats for sure

What a consoling thought.

wirelessdude01 · 23-08-2020 11:32AM

khalessi wrote: »

That question is regularly asked in staffrooms, and other education forums as we have been let down over and over again by them. Most people join a union for legal protection these days and most teachers dont believe or trust in their union.

Exactly. It's a 'just incase' insurance policy. You hope you never need them for legal but if not a member and you need them you are basically screwed.

am_zarathustra · 23-08-2020 11:37AM

downthemiddle wrote: »

What a consoling thought.

Concerning our highly educated doctors, immunologists and epidemiologist know as much as someone giving out on a forum too

meeeeh · 23-08-2020 11:37AM

Just to put a bit of a different perspective. There are zero complaints on my class parenting what's apps and everyone I spoke to can't wait to send kids back. Some of us are sending kids to after school/child minding facility next door for a few days per week just so they have a bit of company. It is small school with big classrooms (also some big classes). So if social media is creating the impression everyone is scared of sending kids back that certainly isn't my impression. In fact exactly the opposite.

Lillyfae · 23-08-2020 11:40AM

khalessi wrote: »

Zero information, the information was explained here over and over since the plan came out on July 27th, and people chose to believe teachers were being hysterical. The parents were asked to question schools and voice concerns as traditionally teachers are not listened to.

Not every parent in Ireland is on boards.ie, not to mention it’s a completely inappropriate forum to use to rally support seeing as it’s anonymous. Official communication should have been coming from the principals and unions and it wasn’t.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Comments