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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #3752
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Students now coming out with issues.

    Funny how the same group were on Primetime when it was announced saying it was great. Seem to have changed their time now.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/secondary-students-express-critical-concerns-over-plans-for-reopening-schools-1.4335129?mode=amp


  • #3753
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Why do you imagine that withdrawal of labour is a good thing here? It shows a lack of ability to communicate effectively and an utter failure to provide input. In terms of what everyone is now supposed to be working on, it's a real dereliction of duty. Teacher strikes tend to be bad for them as it pits them against the rest of the country, especially parents.

    Because it may get results for a sector that has been badly neglected for years. Because I want better for our kids who are the future of this country.
    A strike would hopefully be short term pain for long term gain.
    It does no such thing in pitting them against the rest of the country, especially parents. I would join their picket line and support them in a heartbeat.

    The legal right to form a strike is there for a reason. It is there to be used when necessary.


  • #3754
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    deiseindublin wrote: »
    Ryan, WHO, on school reopening. Maybe they'll listen to him?
    "but wearing a mask is not an alternative to physical distancing, it's not an alternative to hand washing, & it's not an alternative to decompressing class size."

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GHS/status/1296890031110488067

    I fear it’s too late at this stage - too close to the start of term and the gov have lost too much “ face” with golfgate to take another hit. We also had Leo indicating that cases in schools are a given and clusters possible but lets cross our fingers that it won’t. :rolleyes: I think we are full steam ahead.


    ETA before any thinks the above indicates that I want the schools to stay closed I don’t. I do think decompressed classes ala Ryan ( phased reopening) is a solution. A tricky one with knock on effects fir working parents myself included but possibly a safer option.


  • #3755
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    irishblessing wrote: »
    Because it may get results for a sector that has been badly neglected for years. Because I want better for our kids who are the future of this country.
    A strike would hopefully be short term pain for long term gain.
    It does no such thing in pitting them against the rest of the country, especially parents. I would join their picket line and support them in a heartbeat.

    The legal right to form a strike is there for a reason. It is there to be used when necessary.

    The only strike action that would be effective would be for all parents to refuse to send their children to school.


  • #3756
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Schools have been told to prepare for a full reopening. If you choose to keep your children at home ( unless they are in the very high risk category) their education becomes your responsibility. You have to register with Tusla for homeschooling and communicate with them , not the school.

    Well I say (as well as many others) that the people telling the schools to prepare for a full reopening in the manner they have is unsafe and ridiculous. We are not in normal times where its as simple as its parent's responsibility to provide education. First of all t's the governments job to provide a safe and quality education for our children and they have failed. They need to do better.


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  • #3757
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    The only strike action that would be effective would be for all parents to refuse to send their children to school.

    No, that isn't true that it's the only effective solution. The workplace is unsafe for teachers, and it's unsafe for students whom they have a duty of care towards. As it's their JOB and they have a right to strike under unsafe conditions, it's a very valid route.

    Parents can refuse to send but I was JUST told well then, it's MY responsibility to educate them. How can this be left in the majority of parents laps, especially working parents. A strike would force gov't action and funding which is a real solution.


  • #3758
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It shows a lack of ability to communicate effectively and an utter failure to provide input.

    It should show that, among other things, because that’s the reality.


  • #3759
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Millem wrote: »
    Ours is 8.45 or 9.00 or 9.15 for the first few days then it changes again !!!

    We were told rotate between uniform and tracksuit if you can’t wash/dry.

    Also need school pencil case. We will be given a list next week on what to buy.
    We usually just pay money to the school for stationary.

    I think that's perfectly reasonable. It will give plenty of time to ensure SD at a potential risk point while allowing the school leeway to change the staggered times if any potential issues arise or if there is no need to have times staggered to such an extent.


  • #3760
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    https://n95maskco.com/collections/n95-masks

    I saw a teacher in some thread ask about good masks to get. I’ve gotten some of above link. Some reviews from teachers in USA say they are much easier to breath in during a class day. I’ve seen these masks recommend by doctors and they are FDA approved. Not cheap and you need to know somebody in USA to buy them or have a USA card (as I was unable to buy them with my card).


  • #3761
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    irishblessing wrote: »
    No, that isn't true that it's the only effective solution. The workplace is unsafe for teachers, and it's unsafe for students whom they have a duty of care towards. As it's their JOB and they have a right to strike under unsafe conditions, it's a very valid route.

    Parents can refuse to send but I was JUST told well then, it's MY responsibility to educate them. How can this be left in the majority of parents laps, especially working parents. A strike would force gov't action and funding which is a real solution.
    Read the thread. There is little or no support for teachers taking strike action. All the power lies with parents. Working parents staying at home with their children would defeat the purpose of reopening schools. The economy would grind to a halt and the government would take action immediately.


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  • #3762
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Why do you imagine that withdrawal of labour is a good thing here? It shows a lack of ability to communicate effectively and an utter failure to provide input.

    To add, what I'm hearing here is that many teachers have spoken up and voiced their complaints up the ladder where they can. They say they were ignored. It does not show a lack of ability to communicate effectively if they were to strike. It's the only option left. What it does show is the pathetic lack of leadership in gov't to have allowed this situation to be so bad that it required teachers to have to strike in order to safeguard our children. Jfc


  • #3763
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Read the thread. There is little or no support for teachers taking strike action. All the power lies with parents. Working parents staying at home with their children would defeat the purpose of reopening schools. The economy would grind to a halt and the government would take action immediately.

    I have read it front to back actually. There is plenty of support. In fact the loudest voice here is getting shut down and ridiculed. You go back and read it. Maybe the economy needs to grind to a halt via teachers strike if that's what it takes to get this government to take appropriate action. Action badly needed over decades actually that has been ignored. Issues this virus has now completely laid bare. They are overdue to strike imo.


  • #3764
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    irishblessing wrote: »
    Well I say (as well as many others) that the people telling the schools to prepare for a full reopening in the manner they have is unsafe and ridiculous. We are not in normal times where its as simple as its parent's responsibility to provide education. First of all t's the governments job to provide a safe and quality education for our children and they have failed. They need to do better.

    Actually it's the governments job to provide 'for' education. This is a very important word when it comes to legal issues. Came up in a course I did previously.


  • #3765
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    irishblessing wrote: »
    Because it may get results for a sector that has been badly neglected for years. Because I want better for our kids who are the future of this country.
    A strike would hopefully be short term pain for long term gain.
    It does no such thing in pitting them against the rest of the country, especially parents. I would join their picket line and support them in a heartbeat.

    The legal right to form a strike is there for a reason. It is there to be used when necessary.
    Hmm, so here's everyone from the top down is trying to get this right in the middle of a public health crisis and you want a bunch of teachers on picket lines? Strikes don't change things, conversations do.


  • #3766
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Hmm, so here's everyone from the top down is trying to get this right in the middle of a public health crisis and you want a bunch of teachers on picket lines? Strikes don't change things, conversations do.

    "Trying" to get this right? lol.

    Yep, conversations post strikes change things. Saying strikes don't change things tells me you need a history lesson and fast.


  • #3767
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭amacca


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    I fear it’s too late at this stage - too close to the start of term and the gov have lost too much “ face” with golfgate to take another hit. We also had Leo indicating that cases in schools are a given and clusters possible but lets cross our fingers that it won’t. :rolleyes: I think we are full steam ahead.

    I too think its full steam ahead......unfortunately it appears to be full steam ahead into what I think will be a pyrrhic victory for the government

    its a measure of just how poor they are at appropriate planning/governing as a collective if im correct...the governance system or the people working it aren't fit for purpose as has been proven time and time again....even to plan this so they can shrug their shoulders and say well we tried if/when schools grind to a halt doesn't appear too bright......i mean youd imagine even with the already pretty poor and declining standards of journalism in this country they will have enough between their ears to realise what a poor approach this was

    I really hope I'm wrong as the B team of alternative gombeens of all political leanings waiting in the wings dont fill me with confidence either.........our system needs to be set up to reward sensible long term planning with an eye on financial stability and a fair deal for workers not reward short term me feinism and incentive reckless mismanagement so a few can feather their own nests at the expense of the country as a whole.

    the only chink of light is at least we are not being led by the likes of Bojo or Trump etc


  • #3768
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    amacca wrote: »
    I too think its full steam ahead......unfortunately it appears to be full steam ahead into what I think will be a pyrrhic victory for the government

    If this is a succesful opening it will be down to the hard work of the teachers making sense of a **** plan and the courage and bravery of parents sending their children in, in the abscene of a visible Minister for Education, an appalling Minister for Health and a ****show of a government.


  • #3769
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Funny how we have two 'loud' posters advocating for strike action from teachers yet most of us actually involved in teaching would be aware of two militant groups with teaching, Glor(Primary) and Fightback(ASTI) and neither have mentioned or even hinted at such. It's not on the agenda so stop bringing it up.


  • #3770
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Funny how we have two 'loud' posters advocating for strike action from teachers yet most of us actually invoked in teaching would be aware of two militant groups with teaching, Glor(Primary) and Fightback(ASTI) and neither have mentioned or even hinted at such. It's not on the agenda so stop bringing it up.

    I think it just distracts from the issues at hand.


  • #3771
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    I think it just distracts from the issues at hand.

    And feeds into the mindset of those on here who consider teachers to be lazy.


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  • #3772
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Funny how we have two 'loud' posters advocating for strike action from teachers yet most of us actually involved in teaching would be aware of two militant groups with teaching, Glor(Primary) and Fightback(ASTI) and neither have mentioned or even hinted at such. It's not on the agenda so stop bringing it up.

    How is it funny? Two ordinary citizens who apparently give more of a **** than some. Maybe the problem here is attitudes regards to striking. What's with calling those groups "militant?" I have NO idea how strikes for teachers need to originate, maybe you can inform us of the process. Does the teacher's union (or whatever those groups are) not take direction from teachers individually emailing so as to form some type of threshold or majority in order to bring about a strike order?

    Don't tell me what to bring up or not bring up, I'll post what I like.

    I seem to have hit a nerve. Don't like being told you might have some responsibility and action here, eh?
    "Above my pay grade," did you not say earlier?


  • #3773
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    khalessi wrote: »
    If this is a succesful opening it will be down to the hard work of the teachers making sense of a **** plan and the courage and bravery of parents sending their children in, in the abscene of a visible Minister for Education, an appalling Minister for Health and a ****show of a government.

    If its successful then the virus hysteria was overblown and it passed through the population long ago


  • #3774
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭amacca


    irishblessing wrote: »
    "Trying" to get this right? lol.

    Yep, conversations post strikes change things. Saying strikes don't change things tells me you need a history lesson and fast.

    in fairness whatever teacher strikes have been held in the past twenty years or so seemed to have achieved very little

    there wasn't much in the way of public support, its hard to encourage a group of people to undertake an action that hasnt worked all that well

    + you could argue govt have been successful with their fairly transparent divide and conquer strategy since the 90s......their are groups within staffs that instead of working together for everyones mutual benefit will pull in different directions

    govt also succeeded in ramming through different payscales that unions could do SFA about at the time

    then consider the fact there are 3 different teaching unions that cant seem to work together .... this means divide and conquer is easier from Govt side as they only have to influence/pressure one smaller group to get them to go a different route to mess up everybody else.

    in short they (teaching unions) have taken a pummelling and by going with the nuclear option (no matter if it was justified) reckon they will take another one so i reckon they are boxing clever now....and rightly so if that is the case

    let the ball do the work on this one...the govt appear to have come up with a totally inept plan...the wheels will probably come off of their own accord....why give any ammunition to the baying cohort of irrational teacher haters out there and the sections of media that only love to whip up anti teacher sentiment (as its great for audience participation/clicks/revenue) + everyone needs somebody to hate right?

    if the unions and teachers dont oppose it they cant be bashed as much although some will try no doubt but the main focus of the backlash will go where it should....

    if the govt plan actually works and there is minimal fall out then it will still have been the wisest course of action to not oppose it

    the other thing those calling for strike action need to consider is quite a large cohort of teachers are relatively normal people with families and mortgages too......and like a lot of people they are up to their tits in debt to sustain a mortgage and family.....that means they are weak when it comes to opposing something like this (ffs they are weak when it comes to opposing ever worsening conditions and gradual erosion of pay rates)....when you are a debt slave you are less likely to want to rock the boat....................there may not actually be the appetite for strike with a large enough group for it to be viable.


  • #3775
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    If its successful then the virus hysteria was overblown and it passed through the population long ago

    Yes because credit is never given where it is due.
    There will be cases in schools we know that but as I said, it will be down to parents and teachers not down to our politicians and their guidelines, that got the schools open.


  • #3776
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    If its successful then the virus hysteria was overblown and it passed through the population long ago

    Do you believe that this is the case?


  • #3777
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    irishblessing wrote: »
    How is it funny? Two ordinary citizens who apparently give more of a **** than some. Maybe the problem here is attitudes regards to striking. What's with calling those groups "militant?" I have NO idea how strikes for teachers need to originate, maybe you can inform us of the process. Does the teacher's union (or whatever those groups are) not take direction from teachers individually emailing so as to form some type of threshold or majority in order to bring about a strike order?

    Don't tell me what to bring up or not bring up, I'll post what I like.

    I seem to have hit a nerve. Don't like being told you might have some responsibility and action here, eh?
    "Above my pay grade," did you not say earlier?

    They describe themselves as militant. Anyway you seem to have all the ideas so off with you.


  • #3778
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    If its successful then the virus hysteria was overblown and it passed through the population long ago

    Yet they estimate that 1.7% of Ireland has been exposed to it. How do you balance that with your theory that it 'passed through the population long ago'?


  • #3779
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭the corpo


    Wonder will there be some movement on masks in primary this week. One of the union heads, not John Boyle, was on Newstalk breakfast this morning expressing concern about it, and saying how Canada this week are making them mandatory from 3rd class up.


  • #3780
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    They describe themselves as militant. Anyway you seem to have all the ideas so off with you.

    I have already posted them. Many times.

    Furthermore, it's the principals and some teachers in the know/BOM's who knew from an early stage that the plans weren't workable in most of the schools. Parents were in the dark up until very recently in the past few days/week when we finally received the plan for our kids school. Some are still in the dark. Yet I remember reading on here you and others expected parents to get on the protest march completely uniformed and in the dark and nothing to be able to tangibly speak to.

    When the pressure it turned back on you there is no answer provided as to why you's can't and in fact don't have a responsibility to strike here. Especially in light of your own communications and concerns being ignored. So essentially it's what, oh well at least I tried? If only I had another legal right available to me... damn!


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  • #3781
    Gentleman Off The Pitch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Gentleman Off The Pitch


    Teachers and students are encouraged to not become infected with SARS-CoV-2 "where possible"


This discussion has been closed.
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