How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

You dont even know that to say a significant number of parents dont value education is parent bashing ?

Have I said a mistruth?

Blondini wrote: »

It was the turnout for the whole school. 500 students. 5PM until 8.30PM.

If your day typically ends at 3pm I can see how you might have difficulties understanding how that might not suit the majority of parents alright.

Blondini wrote: »

Anecdotally, I was organising a P/T meeting a few years back in a school and we had a 25% attendance rate of parents. Am I allowed to use that as an example of a significant number of parents not valuing education? Hmmm?

We'd have about 20% annually that wouldn't turn up.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am shocked by some posts on this thread by teachers . But i dont think they represent anyone but themselves . I certainly wouldn’t base my opinion of all teachers on a few . Nor would I base my opinion of parents on a few . There are wonderful supportive parents out there too
Give them some credit

You’re an utter gem, and have been the whole way through this thread (and the last), despite the nastiness that’s been thrown about.

Lillyfae wrote: »

You’re an utter gem, and have been the whole way through this thread (and the last), despite the nastiness that’s been thrown about.

I don’t even have school going children but I dislike anyone shouting for fairness for teachers and yet bashing parents in the same breath . Most parents and teachers just want the very best for the children

Blondini wrote: »

Whole 'roadmap' could have been summed up in one sentence :

"Open schools as normal, and don't catch the virus if possible."

You forgot to say 'and cross your fingers!'

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

We all have them, but right to acknowledge that a significant number also aren't.

Then acknowledge the decent supportive ones too occasionally .

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am shocked by some posts on this thread by teachers . But i dont think they represent anyone but themselves . I certainly wouldn’t base my opinion of all teachers on a few . Nor would I base my opinion of parents on a few . There are wonderful supportive parents out there too
Give them some credit

Some of them come across as if educating kids gets in the way of their day to be honest and parents are annoying busy bodies. The same parents who work and pay their wages.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am shocked by some posts on this thread by teachers . But i dont think they represent anyone but themselves . I certainly wouldn’t base my opinion of all teachers on a few . Nor would I base my opinion of parents on a few . There are wonderful supportive parents out there too
Give them some credit

I taught in three schools before i moved on. In two the meetings were after school going on into 8 and for some teachers 9 with longer queues as they were either in demand or not very concise with their reports...i think thats reasonable to allow parents to get in at least once during their childs 5/6 year second education especislly ss the days evenings of the week were changed regularly


And you are correct there were some very supportive parents thst showed up listened asked questions and did their best .....and in general their kids did well out of education and while being nitmal teenagers prone to the odd mishsp etc got on well in life

But in every school there was a very significant cohort who simply never showed up....now i dont necessarily blame some of them as maybe the kid was uncontrollable and there was nothing they could do.....but these were the ones you really needed to show up do you could find some sort of even partial solution so they woyld either shiw up snd not be absent most of the time or worde stop disrupting everyone snd msk8ng their fellow student's and teachers lives difficult

So i can understand why one might mske the conclusiin in some of their cases that they simply didn't care and were treating the school essentially as low cost childcare....i suppose they were better in a wsy thsn the admittedly quite small cohorts of my johhny wouldnt do that, its the teachers fault and im just waiting for an opportunity to make a claim regardless of who is at fault.

Personally if there was a way to stop these students disrupting others education id have no problem but as it stands there are a very small.number of students making a lot of peoples academic and working lives very miserable and stress filled year after year and the system can seemingly do sweet **** all about it.

Tldr ...given the reality of the situatiin on the ground i dont think the poster holds a low opinion of parents at all.....just a small number of them and perhaps its not justified given we dont know their struggles in life but it is understandable....if you witnessed first hand the behavioir of some of these students and what they get away with year in year out in the system it might go some of the way to softening your cough and you might not be quite as outraged

Lillyfae wrote: »

If your day typically ends at 3pm I can see how you might have difficulties understanding how that might not suit the majority of parents alright.

So if 5pm to 8:30pm wouldn’t suit, what time do you think PT meetings should be run at?

markodaly wrote: »

And which suggestion is actually standing up to scruitney at the moment? Yours?
What is the plan from the TUI or the ASTI or are they busy just poking holes?

We have had many teachers on this thread, give their own half baked solution to the problem, are you going to have a go at them?

I said my piece and ill repeat, teachers and the Dept. of Education are simply incapable of changing their ways and becoming project managers rather then teachers. Its expected, teachers teach, they dont have a much of a notion about operations or managing a project.
The Dept of Education dont have the ability either, so they come up with a half baked plan that has the best chance of working. A hope and see approach.

This is the chickens coming home to roost by the way. Decades of teachers looking for pay rises against deep dysfunction in the education system and lacking infrastructure. Oh, you want to have a go at me for that? Fine, but show me the last time the teachers striked for an increase for the education budget dedicated to infrastrucutre?

If you understood the role of unions you wouldn't constantly throw undeserved blame at them. Teachers unions bring these issues up at congress every year and lobby the government re poor infrastructure/ pupil teacher ratio etc. The congresses are open to the media and are reported on every year but because teachers wanting improved working conditions isn't a juicy headline it isn't widely reported. Strike action is not a measure of whether someone cares about an issue or not.

The general public don't care about education. If they did it would be a headline issue and hotky debated during election campaigns. It isn't a high priority issue at elections and the subsequent government don't see the need to prioritise it either as it doesn'ttranslate to votes.

Parents and teachers are often the same people it isn't us vs them. I will say however that parents as a group have a much more influential voice than teachers. You only have to look at the leaving cert debacle to see the proof of that.

Teachers aren't project managers but we are educators. We know what will and will not work in terms of education provison in our classrooms, not taking our views in to account at all is a mistake. We aren't the full picture but we should be part of the solution, not dictated to or condescended to when we express concern based on our professional knowledge and experience.

Disagreement and debate of topics is not an indication of wanting to keep schools closed. It is an indication that people care enough to question the guidance as teachers want to return safely and stay open.

Blondini wrote: »

Listen Marko, I've to go off for me tea. Back in an hour. Can you hold off posting until then so I can enjoy and "tease out" some of your... erm ideas with you. Thanks love.

It's always good to see some keeping their sense of humour.

amacca wrote: »

I taught in three schools before i moved on. In two the meetings were after school going on into 8 and for some teachers 9 with longer queues as they were either in demand or not very concise with their reports...i think thats reasonable to allow parents to get in at least once during their childs 5/6 year second education especislly ss the days evenings of the week were changed regularly


And you are correct there were some very supportive parents thst showed up listened asked questions and did their best .....and in general their kids did well out of education and while being nitmal teenagers prone to the odd mishsp etc got on well in life

But in every school there was a very significant cohort who simply never showed up....now i dont necessarily blame some of them as maybe the kid was uncontrollable and there was nothing they could do.....but these were the ones you really needed to show up do you could find some sort of even partial solution so they woyld either shiw up snd not be absent most of the time or worde stop disrupting everyone snd msk8ng their fellow student's and teachers lives difficult

So i can understand why one might mske the conclusiin in some of their cases that they simply didn't care and were treating the school essentially as low cost childcare....i suppose they were better in a wsy thsn the admittedly quite small cohorts of my johhny wouldnt do that, its the teachers fault and im just waiting for an opportunity to make a claim regardless of who is at fault.

Personally if there was a way to stop these students disrupting others education id have no problem but as it stands there are a very small.number of students making a lot of peoples academic and working lives very miserable and stress filled year after year and the system can seemingly do sweet **** all about it.

Tldr ...given the reality of the situatiin on the ground i dont think the poster holds a low opinion of parents at all.....just a small number of them and perhaps its not justified given we dont know their struggles in life but it is understandable....if you witnessed first hand the behavioir of some of these students and what they get away with year in year out in the system it might go some of the way to softening your cough and you might not be quite as outraged

Thanks for the measured reply . Look I worked in a very busy paeds hospital and in a busy Maternity hospital too
I understand all about the cohort who are insupportive and disruptive . I am not for one moment denying that it happens in hospitals and schools .
But it would be wrong of me to continually speak about that cohort without mentioning the wonderful and amazing parents . Maybe its just me but I would focus on the good , supportive and heroic parents and ignore the ones who deserve to be ignored.
I worked with some of the bravest , amazing and heroic parents . If i was to discuss paeds nursing and focus on the ones who were less than amazing I would be doing the first group a huge disservice

I fully understand that teachers would be frustrated with the ones who obviously don’t care . They are in every walk of life but focusing on them is not totally fair to the others who are supportive and encouraging

My frustration on this thread is that a few teachers have nothing good to say about parents but will persistently focus on the bad ones . Making snide remarks about parents eyc . And it is also odd that they are not called out on it by other teachers which gives the impression of the wagon circling

But outside of this thread I must say I see a lot more co operation and teachers and parents focused on hoping for the very best for the children . It’s encouraging to see and gain some encouragement from

Most parents are pretty okay, some are fantastic, some are really not. But the majority are in the latter category, and a small number in the former, certainly even less than the really, unbelievably amazing ones

The few parents you need to see rarely come in to suspension or even expulsion meetings, never mind parent teacher meetings. I've seen parents get their kids to deal in schools, advise them to punch someone if they looked a them the wrong way, attack members of staff due to lies told to them by their little darlings, kids who won't leave the school in the evening because we are their safe space, kids we buy everything for, down to socks. I have a great relationship with the parents of the kids in the school, regardless of whether they are questionable parents because a bad relationship will simply make it worse. You try to be supportive and meet them where they are but if you are a teacher who cares about the students its very hard to watch the above and that may be where wireless is coming from

These parents will not be supportive if their child is breaking covid regulations. They aren't supportive when their kids physically assault teachers. That's the reality. As the other poster above said, a very small number of students unfortunate enough to have very bad parents do untold damage to schools right accross the country. Nothing is even done about this.