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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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  • #3002
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Answered in blue
    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    Still worrying that a teacher could say one email a week is sufficient.

    Firstly I said it was sufficient for me as a parent. Would my occupation be relevant if I was a zookeeper? It was all I needed. I didnt need zoom classes as I was trying to work and we had one device, my laptop. I would be more worried and disappointed if a teacher did nothing.

    If the weekly email was planned properly it will take time. I think you are pp not primary. They involve different planning. I know my plans are more detailed than my sibling's who is secondary. For me to plan an email outlinng work for the week, with step by step guides and sourcing videos would take about 25 hours minimum. That time would not be represented in the weekly email which just pops into the inbox.

    Then I would be correcting work and returning it and basing future learning on it. AFL and AoL. and all that. It is why I spent so long working every day during term, correct, return work, plan, source videos, do step by step guide and compile daily plan for students, as well as writing weekly teaching plan and Cuntas Miosuil.

    Do you think that teachers who have to look after (and teach) their own kids, and thus cannot work properly, should be fully paid if schools are closed?

    I was one of these looking after kids and one gets learning support. This is an emergency situation and everyone reacted as they could. As another poster said that is past and we must look forward. So I hope the Dept have engaged the NCCA to look at online teaching.


    Put slightly differently - should teachers get fully paid if they send one email a week? If you are saying that is 'enough' they why are we needed at all?
    If teachers downed tools in March and did nothing then Covid. We dont need those teachers.

    Some school only allowed weekly emails to be sent out. If a weekly email appeared with step by step guides and videos and took a teacher 25 hours to compile. Should they be judged on tthe 25hrs work or the fact an email popped in an inbox.

    We are all using a platform which allows our answers to appear almost immediatley. Do we see the work that went in to letting that happen?


  • #3003
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Murple wrote: »
    Of the current 160 TDS, 19 were teachers or principals so less than an eighth. Of those 19, I don’t know how many had any length of time as a teacher or how many trained as a teacher and left it after a year or two. Joe McHugh for example, the previous Minister for Ed. seems to have taught for 3 years and been a youth worker for as long but he was always just referred to as a teacher (despite not having worked as one since 1996).
    Michael Martin is also touted as ‘a teacher’ but he actually only worked for a year as one.

    My point though was in relation to the quote. Doesn't matter if they didn't actually teach. Presumable they are no fools if they went down the teaching line. The quote was calling her a fool. I'm only explaining this to you but I don't want to get into it with the poster that said it again. It was just a frivilious comment that raised my feminist hackles !


  • #3004
    teachinggal123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    khalessi wrote: »
    Some school only allowed weekly emails to be sent out.

    As I've said before, that is frankly disgraceful. That cannot be considered sufficient, especially when the teacher is unavailable to be contacted by phone or email.
    khalessi wrote: »
    If a weekly email appeared with step by step guides and videos and took a teacher 25 hours to compile. Should they be judged on the 25hrs work or the fact an email popped in an inbox.

    We are all using a platform which allows our answers to appear almost immediatley. Do we see the work that went in to letting that happen?

    The once-a-week emails that I've seen certainly did not take 25 hours to write!!! It was a list of the weekly homework that would have taken less than an hour (and thats being generous!) to prepare.

    You personally as a parent may have been ok with that (as you are a teacher) but other parents who are not teachers cannot work with one email a week. That is not sufficient and it's no wonder that parents are p122ed off and look at teachers in a negative light.

    This has to change - from both schools as a whole and individual teachers - if/when schools close again.


  • #3005
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Murple wrote: »
    Of the current 160 TDS, 19 were teachers or principals so less than an eighth. Of those 19, I don’t know how many had any length of time as a teacher or how many trained as a teacher and left it after a year or two. Joe McHugh for example, the previous Minister for Ed. seems to have taught for 3 years and been a youth worker for as long but he was always just referred to as a teacher (despite not having worked as one since 1996).
    Michael Martin is also touted as ‘a teacher’ but he actually only worked for a year as one.

    35,000 teachers in Ireland - less than 1%. 19 is definitely an over representation


  • #3006
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    35,000 teachers in Ireland - less than 1%. 19 is definitely an over representation

    People need to stop voting for them so


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  • #3007
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    As I've said before, that is frankly disgraceful. That cannot be considered sufficient, especially when the teacher is unavailable to be contacted by phone or email.



    The once-a-week emails that I've seen certainly did not take 25 hours to write!!! It was a list of the weekly homework that would have taken less than an hour (and thats being generous!) to prepare.

    You personally as a parent may have been ok with that (as you are a teacher) but other parents who are not teachers cannot work with one email a week. That is not sufficient and it's no wonder that parents are p122ed off and look at teachers in a negative light.

    This has to change - from both schools as a whole and individual teachers - if/when schools close again.

    What about teachers who did nothing? SHould they be punished or put on Covid?


  • #3008
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    zanador wrote: »
    I haven't read the whole thread but saw some people complaining about teachers so just wanted to say as far as I am concerned you are all amazing and have been from the beginning of this. And everyone I know thinks the same. The DES has let you down terribly.

    I work in adult ed and won't be going back teaching face to face.

    Good luck to you all, and I think anyone who criticises you after what you have done over the last few months should be ashamed of themselves.
    Warbeastrior wrote: »
    That is incorrect. The poster in question said 'What have they done?'

    So while someone may have done a positive generalisation. That other poster replied with a negative generalisation.

    I had done neither but I was accused of generalising. Thats what I was responding to.

    I'm actually not incorrect. I've taken the time to go back and find it.

    No one should feel ashamed of themselves for criticising teachers (or principals) whom they felt let down by earlier this year. It doesn't take away from teachers and principals who knocked it out of the park.


  • #3009
    teachinggal123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    khalessi wrote: »
    What about teachers who did nothing? SHould they be punished or put on Covid?

    From now on any teacher who is not able or willing to go fully online/blended should not be paid.

    But we both know that will NEVER happen for many reasons.

    What is your opinion? Please answer your own question.


  • #3010
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    As I've said before, that is frankly disgraceful. That cannot be considered sufficient, especially when the teacher is unavailable to be contacted by phone or email.



    The once-a-week emails that I've seen certainly did not take 25 hours to write!!!
    Thank you for the exclamation marks and indignation. I said if I planned a weekly email it would take 25hours and listed why.

    So as I asked if an email appears as stated in post 3002, with all the planning involved, with videos step by step guides. Should the teacher be judged on the 25hrs work that went in to it or the fact it poppen into an inbox?

    This of course along with corrections, and return of work

    This is not just for TG to answer btw


  • #3011
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    Still worrying that a teacher could say one email a week is sufficient.

    Put slightly differently - should teachers get fully paid if they send one email a week?
    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    I, and others on this thread, are saying that some teachers did nothing since March. I'm also saying that many primary schools sent one 'homework' email on Monday morning and nothing else after that.
    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    This discussion is a really important part of every school reopening plan, and it worries me that the same thing could happen again where primary schools thought one email a week was sufficient and some teachers did nothing.
    teachinggal123 wrote: »

    I'm hoping that the teachers who sent one email a week and were then unresponsive/uncontactable will do something different when the schools close again. That will not be accepted again this time round by parents.
    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    And I know loads of teachers - especially primary school teachers - who sent one generic email a week or did nothing at all.

    Take your own advice and don't generalise either.

    Sorry, I'm not quite sure I got that.

    How many emails and how often?


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  • #3012
    teachinggal123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    khalessi wrote: »
    Thank you for the exclamation marks and indignation. I said if I planned a weekly email it would take 25hours and listed why.

    So as I asked if an email appears as stated in post 3002, with all the planning involved, with videos step by step guides. Should the teacher be judged on the 25hrs work that went in to it or the fact it poppen into an inbox?

    This of course along with corrections, and return of work

    This is not just for TG to answer btw

    What pedagogical approach/theory says that one email per week with a student is sufficient? Particularly primary and post-primary students (as opposed to 3rd level) and when the teacher is uncontactable and does no correction.

    Are we doing distance learning now? Provide huge amount of material and let the student off with themselves??


  • #3013
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    From now on any teacher who is not able or willing to go fully online/blended should not be paid.

    But we both know that will NEVER happen for many reasons.

    What is your opinion? Please answer your own question.

    I have answered it a numer of times but you are too busy trying to take my comments out of context to notice. As I said if a teacher downs tools and does nothing, Covid. But if a teacher has put the hours in doing proper planning as indicated in my post they should be paid. I have seen the weekly emails. I had 3 teachers same school, 2 class teachers and one learning support.

    I could see the effort the learning support went to for the weekly email. I had one teacher where it was cut and paste and the other put the effort in with explanations and responses.

    So you you agree you should not have been paid?


  • #3014
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,267 ✭✭✭amacca


    teachinggal123 wrote: »


    The once-a-week emails that I've seen certainly did not take 25 hours to write!!!

    Are you incapable of reading what the poster wrote....or do you luke misinterpreting to suit whatever agenda you have?


  • #3015
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Blondini wrote: »
    Sorry, I'm not quite sure I got that.

    How many emails and how often?

    Well if I may respond to this question as one half of a working parent in a two working parent household, I would hope that daily emails, videos, instruction, grading, etc will be the normal going forward. I think we can all agree at this point that shut downs will happen, there are already parents pulling their children to homeschool (I'm hearing this everywhere) and children/families who are high risk and a quality education at home is needed.


  • #3016
    teachinggal123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    Blondini wrote: »
    Sorry, I'm not quite sure I got that.

    How many emails and how often?

    It's stated clearly in my posts.

    One email each week.


  • #3017
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    It's stated clearly in my posts.

    One email each week.

    So one email a week more than you, yes?


  • #3018
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Blondini wrote: »
    Sorry, I'm not quite sure I got that.

    How many emails and how often?

    It’s extremely difficult to take faux outrage from a poster who has not alone openly admitted that they did nothing fir their students during the entire lockdown but wait for it - it wasn’t even their fault it was because of their older colleagues.
    I love how they constantly slate primary teachers yet their own conscience is clear cos it was somebody else’s fault :rolleyes:


  • #3019
    Alex86Eire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 331 ✭✭Alex86Eire


    irishblessing wrote: »
    I have read (mostly) all back through this thread and there seems to be some dog piling on this poster teachinggal here. There is no way I can find it again, but didn't she talk about the pressure of the older teachers working against her in approaching remote teaching issue? Then I read about other teachers on here saying they can't speak up to their principals or BOM about certain issues for the same reasons and not wanting to go against them or senior teachers. Not organising strikes or speak outs because it's not their "pay grade." If so and I'm recalling correctly it all seems a bit Pot/kettle to me.

    She's young, she's learning and she'll find her feet and voice. Leave it alone already and put the pitchforks down.

    I'm done engaging with that particular poster but as you addressed this comment to me personally I will respond.

    This particular poster has not helped herself. For months she has claimed that she knows of teachers who did nothing during lockdown and has criticized and shamed them. She herself admitted to doing nothing herself during lockdown. This is what people are finding ridiculous.

    This is all she has contributed to this thread - repeating herself over and over.
    She is probably older than I am. I graduated a handful of years ago and I could never imagine letting my students suffer by not engaging with them. I would feel quite guilty.

    I should know better at this stage to stick to the Teaching forum.


  • #3020
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    It’s extremely difficult to take faux outrage from a poster who has not alone openly admitted that they did nothing fir their students during the entire lockdown but wait for it - it wasn’t even their fault it was because of their older colleagues.
    I love how they constantly slate primary teachers yet their own conscience is clear cos it was somebody else’s fault :rolleyes:

    I know I should know better, but she is kind of light entertainment in these difficult times.
    Comic relief I suppose.


  • #3021
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    irishblessing wrote: »
    Well if I may respond to this question as one half of a working parent in a two working parent household, I would hope that daily emails, videos, instruction, grading, etc will be the normal going forward. I think we can all agree at this point that shut downs will happen, there are already parents pulling their children to homeschool (I'm hearing this everywhere) and children/families who are high risk and a quality education at home is needed.

    I was being facetious I can assure you and agree with you.

    Sorry if you misinterpreted.


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  • #3022
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Two things need to be separated.
    If parents have issues with online teaching. They need to complain to their Principal not random strangers.
    The vast majority did a decent job despite hardly any direction.
    A lot of parents did well too..but a lot of parents allowed their kids to do SFA for months. I can understand blips etc but to switch off without any explanation?
    But in these cases I made the parents aware..not random strangers on boards.ie.


  • #3023
    teachinggal123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    For the benefit of the non-teachers on this thread have a read of this to see what I'm up against ...

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058086571


  • #3024
    GHOST MGG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭GHOST MGG


    I am more worried now about my kids going back to school after reading the absolute bolloxology in this thread


  • #3025
    teachinggal123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Two things need to be separated.
    If parents have issues with online teaching. They need to complain to their Principal not random strangers.
    The vast majority did a decent job despite hardly any direction.
    A lot of parents did well too..but a lot of parents allowed their kids to do SFA for months. I can understand blips etc but to switch off without any explanation?
    But in these cases I made the parents aware..not random strangers on boards.ie.

    Seriously, we all have to stop making broad unsupported statements like this.

    There is no way you can make this claim with any credibility. You are giving an opinion just like the rest of us.


  • #3026
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    teachinggal123 wrote: »
    For the benefit of the non-teachers on this thread have a read of this to see what I'm up against ...

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058086571

    Dear God, why does every thread you infiltrate end up being about you? should we all dig up threads where people disagree with us.

    The issue people have is you create faux outrage over once a week emails and yet admit to doing nothing since March. You come across aggressively, If someone asks for your advice re methodologies or whatnot, you claim they are bullying you or attacking you. It seems the only person here who is not open to criticism is yourself, give it a rest please.


  • #3027
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Alex86Eire wrote: »
    I'm done engaging with that particular poster but as you addressed this comment to me personally I will respond.

    This particular poster has not helped herself. For months she has claimed that she knows of teachers who did nothing during lockdown and has criticized and shamed them. She herself admitted to doing nothing herself during lockdown. This is what people are finding ridiculous.

    This is all she has contributed to this thread - repeating herself over and over.
    She is probably older than I am. I graduated a handful of years ago and I could never imagine letting my students suffer by not engaging with them. I would feel quite guilty.

    I should know better at this stage to stick to the Teaching forum.

    Did she not seem to be open to doing better and expressed regrets too? There were extenuating and understandable circumstances mixed in there. Just as I am disappointed in our children's teacher I can also understand that the principal is quite controlling and the difficulties in speaking up (our weekly emails once they started came from the principal, not the teachers) so we will not lay the blame directly or all at the teachers feet.

    The poster here in question seemed to own it which tbh I respected her more for. As long as one learns from an experience and commits to doing better in future I can't see a problem with that.


  • #3028
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    GHOST MGG wrote: »
    I am more worried now about my kids going back to school after reading the absolute bolloxology in this thread

    In fairness, it's a good thread with decent professionals here most of the time until certain posters arrive to troll and derail. (Jaysus I hope they're trolling and not actually real:eek:)


  • #3029
    teachinggal123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    khalessi wrote: »
    Dear God, why does every thread you infiltrate end up being about you? should we all dig up threads where people disagree with us.

    The issue people have is you create faux outrage over once a week emails and yet admit to doing nothing since March. You come across aggressively, If someone asks for your advice re methodologies or whatnot, you claim they are bullying you or attacking you. It seems the only person here who is not open to criticism is yourself, give it a rest please.

    Are you a mod of this forum? If not, please stop back seat modding and telling me what to do.

    I'll let others decide who is being aggressive, repetitive and bullying.


  • #3030
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Blondini wrote: »
    I was being facetious I can assure you and agree with you.

    Sorry if you misinterpreted.

    I didn't misinterpret, just wanted to put a serious answer to it that's all!


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  • #3031
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Blondini wrote: »
    I know I should know better, but she is kind of light entertainment in these difficult times.
    Comic relief I suppose.

    I'm sorry now but see this is wrong. Smacks of mean girls kind of stuff. Let's say teachinggirl is completely wrong and all the other teachers on here are right, still, many against one is just not a good look. As teachers should know more than most, kids that are picked on in schools often do themselves no favours. Still everyone piling in and worse "light entertainment" for some is not what you want to encourage.


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