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Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

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  • #7052
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,856 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    Dies with or from? And that's historical calcs, not current trend

    One child, child, dies from hunger every 10 seconds, look at your watch folks, etc.

    In the US a person dies of pneumonia every 10 minutes.

    So we should try do nothing about hunger ?

    172,000 people thus far have been killed by Corona in the USA. About 50,000 die from pneumonia in the US each year.

    This thread isn’t about hunger, but seeing as you mentioned it, if Corona really took hold, in the supply chain of food and other essential supplies such as treatment and drugs for pneumonia is fûcked... the hunger crisis becomes not a problem, it’s just THE END.


  • #7053
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,197 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    This is farcical.

    https://twitter.com/SamanthaLibreri/status/1296180691240198146


  • #7054
    lostatsea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 320 ✭✭lostatsea


    normanoffside wrote: »
    The 2 Deaths make the headlines and the 2 denotifications aren't even mentioned in most pres releases. It's farcical.

    It is amazing listening to RTE News that the denotifications are not mentioned by the Health correspondent. The 7-day rolling average is 0 deaths. Excess deaths is now negligible. The rise in cases around the country has been occurring for over a month and yet the number of Covid ICU admissions is negligible. Stephen Donnelly says we will see death rates rising as a result of this rise in daily cases. However, I would say ICU admissions would need to start rising first.

    According to Worldometer, there are 6 seriously ill people in the country due to Covid which is a seriously small number. There are two sides to the argument as to what happens next where both sides are using scientific data to back their point of view. Unfortunately, only one side of the argument is dominating the media. Nobody should ever fear a healthy debate!


  • #7055
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Strumms wrote: »
    So we should try do nothing about hunger ?

    172,000 people thus far have been killed by Corona in the USA. About 50,000 die from pneumonia in the US each year.

    This thread isn’t about hunger, but seeing as you mentioned it, if Corona really took hold, in the supply chain of food and other essential supplies such as treatment and drugs for pneumonia is fûcked... the hunger crisis becomes not a problem, it’s just THE END.

    Thats using the assumption that Covid explicitly killed those 172k which isn't the case as we know.

    If it was allowed run through the population it certaintly is not the end, in fact most won't know they have it.

    If you apply the asymptomatic figures from a recent food production facility outbreak to the general population, over 90% will have no symptoms.

    We need to remember, a positive case is not a sick person


  • #7056
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,856 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Thats using the assumption that Covid explicitly killed those 172k which isn't the case as we know.

    If it was allowed run through the population it certaintly is not the end, in fact most won't know they have it.

    If you apply the asymptomatic figures from a recent food production facility outbreak to the general population, over 90% will have no symptoms.

    We need to remember, a positive case is not a sick person

    I’m not using assumptions, I’m using government statistics. A person could die of cancer and have an underlying condition, still the cancer that killed them. Death certificate will show.. clutching at straws as regards underlying conditions isn’t helpful, unless you can back up with stats how many would survive without, either way underlying conditions are a part of life.


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  • #7057
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,197 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Or maybe not. This government don't seem to know what's going on themselves tbh. All over the shop. Case of too many cooks? The reopening was always going to be harder than full restrictions but they should at least try to stay on the same page!

    https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1296185210745298944


  • #7058
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    If you apply the asymptomatic figures from a recent food production facility outbreak to the general population, over 90% will have no symptoms.

    We need to remember, a positive case is not a sick person

    But, the only reason you'd do that would be to mislead people, so why are you?


  • #7059
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,390 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    normanoffside wrote: »
    The 2 Deaths make the headlines and the 2 denotifications aren't even mentioned in most pres releases. It's farcical.

    I also wonder how long it took for the denotified deaths to be confirmed as not Covid. They announced 3 deaths in the last 10 days, surely it couldn't have taken any longer than that to test those people and confirm they didn't have Covid (if they did have Covid no doubt their death would still be counted in these figures even if it wasn't Covid that killed them).

    I would also question when did they know those deaths weren't Covid. Were they waiting until the number of deaths in a day at least matched the denotifications to avoid a Lazarus situation where deaths actually went down (again)? And will either of todays deaths get denotified in the near future?

    It is beyond farcical at this stage.


  • #7060
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Finland removes Ireland from their 'green list' of countries, a month after it was added.
    Countries outside Schengen that now face stepped-up checks are Cyprus, Ireland, San Marino and Japan.

    Travellers arriving from those countries are asked to isolate themselves for two weeks, and travel to those countries is not recommended. The recommendation comes into force on Monday 24 August.

    https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/article11501293.ece


  • #7061
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    In fairness to Donnelly it's a complicated concept and not explainable with gaussian statistics. .
    Most people don't understand "fat-tail" risks. Think of the Ro number that is in or around 1 ....
    should be grand if we keep going doing what we are doing.

    Literally one person can shut down Aberdeen.
    one person can shut down LOK.

    In those clusters the ro number was originally 1 or 2 but then it jumped to 27 or 50.
    So using an average doesn't matter. The one extreme observation completely shifts your estimate and the observed distribution.
    That's why you have to go hard and early. We are not doing that.
    Asking 70 year olds to stay home or gaa to not to have spectators doesn't matter in a sense.

    He needs to get better advisors. Preferably someone who can understand the concept and then explain in simple terms.
    You don't wait for empirical evidence in a war or a pandemic.
    The GAA asking for it shows they don't understand it either unfortunately.

    The main issue is that the risk is fat tailed. I honestly think we are not in a good enough position to open them safely.

    People saying flights etc are grand. One single person coming in infected can lead
    to literally thousands of people being infected and dying by the time the contagion chain is interrupted.

    We did an experiment this summer, Can we do enough things to block the spread while remaining open? The answer is fairly clear at this stage. Hopefully by this time next year we will be in a better position.



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  • #7062
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    timsey tiger wrote: »
    But, the only reason you'd do that would be to mislead people, so why are you?

    84 out if 87 workers who tested positive were asymptomatic


  • #7063
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Finland removes Ireland from their 'green list' of countries, a month after it was added.



    https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/article11501293.ece

    Not a surprise. They are doing brilliantly. We should learn from them. Surely you follow best in class. The finnish
    are nailing it. Small first peak and very few cases atm.


  • #7064
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    So we should try do nothing about hunger ?

    172,000 people thus far have been killed by Corona in the USA. About 50,000 die from pneumonia in the US each year.

    This thread isn’t about hunger, but seeing as you mentioned it, if Corona really took hold, in the supply chain of food and other essential supplies such as treatment and drugs for pneumonia is fûcked... the hunger crisis becomes not a problem, it’s just THE END.

    172,000 deaths in America since Covid started there. That's about one death every 90 seconds if my maths are correct. Surely not.


  • #7065
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,856 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    A person who has been infected with covid, is asymptomatic is a sick / ill person.


  • #7066
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not a surprise. They are doing brilliantly. We should learn from them. Surely you follow best in class. The finnish
    are nailing it. Small first peak and very few cases atm.

    Ireland loves the Finnish model, its why we always comment on their education and drool after it but then take our ideas from the UK. Probably doing the same with how Covid19 is dealt with.


  • #7067
    Non solum non ambulabit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Non solum non ambulabit


    Down to 17 in hospital and now down to 6 in ICU. Positive numbers in all the gloom over cases.


  • #7068
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,197 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Finland removes Ireland from their 'green list' of countries, a month after it was added.



    https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/article11501293.ece

    Wonder does that mean they will be off our green list? Was the assumption that countries on that list didn't have any requirements or was more to do with incidence level?


  • #7069
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,197 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    khalessi wrote: »
    Ireland loves the Finnish model, its why we always comment on their education and drool after it but then take our ideas from the UK. Probably doing the same with how Covid19 is dealt with.

    Sure government always bandy about copying other countries models but not the investment etc which makes it work.


  • #7070
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »
    Down to 17 in hospital and now down to 6 in ICU. Positive numbers in all the gloom over cases.

    Good numbers alright.

    If cases were low also we would be flying.


  • #7071
    MD1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭MD1990


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Good numbers alright.

    If cases were low also we would be flying.

    yes but only to green list countries


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  • #7072
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Strumms wrote: »
    A person who has been infected with covid, is asymptomatic is a sick / ill person.

    Is that so?

    Im not being disingenuous, but I would have thought asymptomatic would be at little risk and certainly not sick/ill?


  • #7073
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Is that so?

    Im not being disingenuous, but I would have thought asymptomatic would be at little risk and certainly not sick/ill?

    I mean, the clue is in the word, but, what do we know.


  • #7074
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,450 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Or maybe not. This government don't seem to know what's going on themselves tbh. All over the shop. Case of too many cooks? The reopening was always going to be harder than full restrictions but they should at least try to stay on the same page!

    https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1296185210745298944

    ah lads really ? Like does anyone actually have a clue what they're at


  • #7075
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,151 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    They know they have lost the support of the people, that was easy to see in the video


  • #7076
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,856 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Is that so?

    Im not being disingenuous, but I would have thought asymptomatic would be at little risk and certainly not sick/ill?

    If you have cancer, you have an illness. If you in the early stages of cancer, showing no symptoms you are asymptomatic. You still have an illness and the condition is still having an affect on your body.


  • #7077
    Speak Now
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,773 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    No but the figure released today doesn't include them if they did .......
    Part of misinformation going on to downplay significance of the situation.

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1296109907574509568?s=20

    Thanks worldometers had said "total Cases' reported is the sum of total cases detected by PRC and antibodies tests".


  • #7078
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Strumms wrote: »
    If you have cancer, you have an illness. If you in the early stages of cancer, showing no symptoms you are asymptomatic. You still have an illness and the condition is still having an affect on your body.

    No thats asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic, there is a huge difference


  • #7079
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    I mean, the clue is in the word, but, what do we know.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-19-can-cause-heart-damageeven-if-you-are-asymptomatic/


  • #7080
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Strumms wrote: »
    If you have cancer, you have an illness. If you in the early stages of cancer, showing no symptoms you are asymptomatic. You still have an illness and the condition is still having an affect on your body.

    It's semantics, but if you have Covid-19 and are asymptomatic then you are infected but not ill.


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  • #7081
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Thats using the assumption that Covid explicitly killed those 172k which isn't the case as we know.

    If it was allowed run through the population it certaintly is not the end, in fact most won't know they have it.

    If you apply the asymptomatic figures from a recent food production facility outbreak to the general population, over 90% will have no symptoms.

    We need to remember, a positive case is not a sick person

    Yes it is far more than 172k in fact, excess deaths in the US stand at overv 225,000 since March.

    The figure of 90% asymtomatic rate obviously does not apply to the general population as workers are relatively young and able bodied , hence the large number of deaths.


This discussion has been closed.
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