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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #2612
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    After yesterday's surreal government press conference, this is just becoming silly, looking at recent reports on the work being carried out in schools In advance of reopening is just bizzare, not a single report on any building work, just moving tables and chairs around, it's just beyond farcical and if it wasn't so serious it would be amusing.

    Government have had almost 6 months to plan for this and moving tables and chairs around doesn't cut it and I've no doubt parents watching this farce must be extremely anxious.

    All about the headline figures. Looks good to Joe and Josephine Bloggs. Next obvious issue will be when schools reopen at secondary with jobs still left unfilled for a myriad of different reasons. I've heard a few stories of teachers finding it next to impossible to source accommodation as people don't want to rent rooms to them due to the risks they will be exposed to.


  • #2613
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    khalessi wrote: »
    That is because all building work requires 3 tenders and then a builder has to be picked and available so some building may not occur until children back in school. Ridiculous situation at this stage.

    And the suspicion is that the actual physical works won't occur at all. That long finger is going to be very heavy.


  • #2614
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    khalessi wrote: »
    That is because all building work requires 3 tenders and then a builder has to be picked and available so some building may not occur until children back in school. Ridiculous situation at this stage.

    I do get the tender process issue but surely government have discretion to get on with it, There are literally 1000"s of consyr trade worker's locally based available, part self employed one's, I'm just flabbergasted at anyone in government thinking the current approach is acceptable, particularly when it seems its only focus right now is getting schools open, despite the minister responsible missing in action albeit I think that's quite deliberate.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #2615
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    I do get the tender process issue but surely government have discretion to get on with it, There are literally 1000"s of consyr trade worker's locally based available, part self employed one's, I'm just flabbergasted at anyone in government thinking the current approach is acceptable, particularly when it seems its only focus right now is getting schools open, despite the minister responsible missing in action albeit I think that's quite deliberate.

    They do and they chose not to use that discretion to get on with it. I would ask why, why not just let the schools get building done. There is a reason for everything they do. This in light of the fact they took over hotels for use as step down hospitals. Why slam breaks on for reopening of schools?


  • #2616
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    All about the headline figures. Looks good to Joe and Josephine Bloggs. Next obvious issue will be when schools reopen at secondary with jobs still left unfilled for a myriad of different reasons. I've heard a few stories of teachers finding it next to impossible to source accommodation as people don't want to rent rooms to them due to the risks they will be exposed to.

    Just extraordinary, I was just watch a report on morning ireland through the RTE news now, on location at a school, it was like watching a blue Peter episode, the principal looking for leadership, Hmmmm, I think we all are

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • #2617
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Sunday Sunday wrote: »
    Well what happens outside of school isn't something the school can control. Despite lockdown and restrictions some of our citizens can still do what they like believe it or not.

    Not worth worrying about, you can't control people's free will. Very few people want to hear about new restrictions now, we had our chance and it worked in the very short term and people don't want to listen any more.

    Very little gain for a lot of pain, we're living with this now whether we like it or not.

    We're just discussing issues that will arise on reopening.

    Didn't say we can control it or that I'm worried about it


  • #2618
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    I do get the tender process issue but surely government have discretion to get on with it, There are literally 1000"s of consyr trade worker's locally based available, part self employed one's, I'm just flabbergasted at anyone in government thinking the current approach is acceptable, particularly when it seems its only focus right now is getting schools open, despite the minister responsible missing in action albeit I think that's quite deliberate.

    Norma was asked about putting the tendering process to one side in the dail and said it still applies.


  • #2619
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    khalessi wrote: »
    They do and they chose not to use that discretion to get on with it. I would ask why, why not just let the schools get building done. There is a reason for everything they do. This in light of the fact they took over hotels for use as step down hospitals. Why slam breaks on for reopening of schools?

    As it happens, building work started on a tiny extension at my local national school just b4 lockdown, I'm talking, the size of a shed, work stopped during lockdown obviously, but I've calculated more than 7 months to build an extension about 20ft x 18ft, there's a new wall also, albeit the great wall of China as its being referred to locally was built quicker.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #2620
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Right, well that's illegal normally- not sure I know too many 3rd year students who are over 18. People have to behave responsibly, and there have to be consequences if they don't. What is so difficult to grasp about that?

    Being illegal hasn't stopped underage drinking yet. Some will be responsible, some won't


  • #2621
    Sammy2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Okay this is now becoming a very stressful situation for a lot of people now. Some schools have issued guidance for parents. I have seen their plans. Some schools have gone over and above (primary) and some seem to have done very little. My own school has Still to order sanitiser dispensers but has spent 4k on two thermometers to put on two entrance doors to 'show the parents we are doing something". No guidance to parents as of yet.

    The principal is currently working in the school office about 2metres x 4metres with 2 other colleagues, all over 65 with no masks. July provision is currently taking place and as its a wet morning hearded in the children with no temperature checks. What will happen on the first wet morning when the full school is back?

    Also they are allowing their spouse into the building to play music with friends after hours? Is this allowed? How can I have any confidence that this principal has my, the children in my care or my own children who attend the school best interest at heart here?


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  • #2622
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    According to Prof Nolan there has been a slow but particular rise of covid 19 from work places to the home to the community . “ unless we move collectively and firmly to prevent further transmission we will see case numbers rise to an unsustainable level. “

    Yet we have a full return for all children to school in roughly two weeks with no plan B in case it goes belly up :rolleyes:

    From the rte news app covid updates if any one is wondering.


  • #2623
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Sammy2012 wrote: »
    Okay this is now becoming a very stressful situation for a lot of people now. Some schools have issued guidance for parents. I have seen their plans. Some schools have gone over and above (primary) and some seem to have done very little. My own school has Still to order sanitiser dispensers but has spent 4k on two thermometers to put on two entrance doors to 'show the parents we are doing something". No guidance to parents as of yet.

    The principal is currently working in the school office about 2metres x 4metres with 2 other colleagues, all over 65 with no masks. July provision is currently taking place and as its a wet morning hearded in the children with no temperature checks. What will happen on the first wet morning when the full school is back?

    Also they are allowing their spouse into the building to play music with friends after hours? Is this allowed? How can I have any confidence that this principal has my, the children in my care or my own children who attend the school best interest at heart here?

    All about the optics. It's a total charade in most schools.


  • #2624
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Sammy2012 wrote: »
    How can I have any confidence that this principal has my, the children in my care or my own children who attend the school best interest at heart here?

    You can't, clearly. What a situation. No grasp of what's going on around them, clearly, and no duty of care to the staff and children of the school. No repercussions for that individual either, they'll throw their eyes up to heaven when a cluster happens and point the finger, no doubt.


  • #2625
    Sammy2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    You can't, clearly. What a situation. No grasp of what's going on around them, clearly, and no duty of care to the staff and children of the school. No repercussions for that individual either, they'll throw their eyes up to heaven when a cluster happens and point the finger, no doubt.

    Oh that is exactly what will happen! Staff relations were at an all Time when we finished up in June. There are alot of underlying issues here but as you say no repercussions on said individual. But if my own children are not safe I will be voicing my opinion to all who will listen. And I will be sharing my concerns with other parents who are friends.


  • #2626
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Sammy2012 wrote: »
    Okay this is now becoming a very stressful situation for a lot of people now. Some schools have issued guidance for parents. I have seen their plans. Some schools have gone over and above (primary) and some seem to have done very little. My own school has Still to order sanitiser dispensers but has spent 4k on two thermometers to put on two entrance doors to 'show the parents we are doing something". No guidance to parents as of yet.

    The principal is currently working in the school office about 2metres x 4metres with 2 other colleagues, all over 65 with no masks. July provision is currently taking place and as its a wet morning hearded in the children with no temperature checks. What will happen on the first wet morning when the full school is back?

    Also they are allowing their spouse into the building to play music with friends after hours? Is this allowed? How can I have any confidence that this principal has my, the children in my care or my own children who attend the school best interest at heart here?

    There will be a LwR and a deputy LWR appointed. If more than 2 volunteer then a confidential vote is needed. Maybe fire a quick email to the principal saying you would like to take on the role ?


  • #2627
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    Hospitilisations of school going children. And if it is 80. It is significantly less, by a huge margin, than other respiratory viruses for the same age range for which we have a vaccine.

    It's also the spread it would cause in the community and the danger of the R number rising to a point which would overwhelm our health care system. This virus is not comparable to the flu. And of the cases, and the subsequent spread from them, I don't know about you but I don't fancy me or my family getting sick with this. The recovery time is much longer for 1, and 2 no-one yet knows how longer term or permanent the damage may be. The flu doesn't do that. Sick of the silly comparisons.


  • #2628
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Sammy2012 wrote: »
    Oh that is exactly what will happen! Staff relations were at an all Time when we finished up in June. There are alot of underlying issues here but as you say no repercussions on said individual. But if my own children are not safe I will be voicing my opinion to all who will listen. And I will be sharing my concerns with other parents who are friends.

    Good on you for looking out for not only your own children, but others and your colleagues aswell.


  • #2629
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Sunday Sunday wrote: »
    Same risk as sharing a bed with someone and sleeping 10 to a room after working shoulder to shoulder with some people purposely evading being caught with the virus?

    Aerosol sprays from water on the factory floor carry the virus on its merry way to the next victim.

    Nah, nowhere near the same risk.

    The experts say it takes just 15 minutes of close contact.


  • #2630
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    I’m looking at what’s happening around us with bewilderment.
    Six people allowed meet indoors and fifteen outdoors. How are schools exempt from these regulations?
    Work from home where possible unless you’re able to form magical pods and bubbles.
    Schools are jumping through every hoop possible at the moment to reopen yet it is inevitable that schools will be the next meat factories. Look at what happened in Israel when they took our approach.
    Their preparations should be geared towards providing an effective blended learning programme. Instead they are being asked to use smoke and mirrors to create an illusion of safety.
    When this all comes apart, as it surely will, schools will be blamed.
    They have been let down badly. They have been hung out to dry.
    I know people are doing Trojan work to make their schools as safe as possible but it can’t be effective.
    I don’t have a solution but I do know that what is being asked is morally and ethically wrong.
    I feel the Department and teacher representative bodies have abdicated responsibility. They cannot guarantee the safety of any member of a school community under the conditions they will be working in.
    The cynic in me believes that the first school closures will coincide with the publication of the leaving cert results.
    Our children and our teachers deserve better.


  • #2631
    Sammy2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Good on you for looking out for not only your own children, but others and your colleagues aswell.

    I would never forgive myself if something happened to a child in my care due to negligence which could have been prevented. So I will wait and see what happens. But the issues have been ongoing in the school for a number of years now but they only effected me up to now. Different when it spills over to my own pride and joy. We are a small rural school and ive worked there for a long time now so would know a lot of the parents having thought their older children so would know a lot of the families personally. Their children deserve to have an adult making sure they are safe behind the scenes.


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  • #2632
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    I’m looking at what’s happening around us with bewilderment.
    Six people allowed meet indoors and fifteen outdoors. How are schools exempt from these regulations?
    Work from home where possible unless you’re able to form magical pods and bubbles.
    Schools are jumping through every hoop possible at the moment to reopen yet it is inevitable that schools will be the next meat factories. Look at what happened in Israel when they took our approach.
    Their preparations should be geared towards providing an effective blended learning programme. Instead they are being asked to use smoke and mirrors to create an illusion of safety.
    When this all comes apart, as it surely will, schools will be blamed.
    They have been let down badly. They have been hung out to dry.
    I know people are doing Trojan work to make their schools as safe as possible but it can’t be effective.
    I don’t have a solution but I do know that what is being asked is morally and ethically wrong.
    I feel the Department and teacher representative bodies have abdicated responsibility. They cannot guarantee the safety of any member of a school community under the conditions they will be working in.
    The cynic in me believes that the first school closures will coincide with the publication of the leaving cert results.
    Our children and our teachers deserve better.

    The tone and mood of everything has changed over the last few days.

    I know most here will disagree, but I believe there WILL be some u-turn on FULL reopening.


  • #2633
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    I’m looking at what’s happening around us with bewilderment.
    Six people allowed meet indoors and fifteen outdoors. How are schools exempt from these regulations?
    Work from home where possible unless you’re able to form magical pods and bubbles.
    Schools are jumping through every hoop possible at the moment to reopen yet it is inevitable that schools will be the next meat factories. Look at what happened in Israel when they took our approach.
    Their preparations should be geared towards providing an effective blended learning programme. Instead they are being asked to use smoke and mirrors to create an illusion of safety.
    When this all comes apart, as it surely will, schools will be blamed.
    They have been let down badly. They have been hung out to dry.
    I know people are doing Trojan work to make their schools as safe as possible but it can’t be effective.
    I don’t have a solution but I do know that what is being asked is morally and ethically wrong.
    I feel the Department and teacher representative bodies have abdicated responsibility. They cannot guarantee the safety of any member of a school community under the conditions they will be working in.
    The cynic in me believes that the first school closures will coincide with the publication of the leaving cert results.
    Our children and our teachers deserve better.

    What most annoys me about this plan is its shortsightedness. Nobody wants to be in a never ending cycle of open / close part as there is no standardised plan B for closures. I really think it’s an optics game now - oh we said we’d open tbe schools for all children and we did :rolleyes: It’s keeping them open in as safe an environment as possible that we want.


  • #2634
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    I'd imagine most parents have calculated the risk and are fine with the and those that arent should be respected and their kids education accommodated at some point.

    When is this point? Because it's not being respected now, and we're due to send the kids back in little over a weeks' time.

    I wouldn't say most are "fine" with the risk, probably cautiously optimistic to holding their breath more like.


  • #2635
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Did you even read that?



    It's not the university being open that's causing a cluster, it's the disregard for SD off campus

    Well I don't know about you, but I've been to university, and that's what young adults tend to do. That is campus life all over the world so I do think the article posted is relevant as is the information in it.


  • #2636
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Blondini wrote: »
    The tone and mood of everything has changed over the last few days.

    I know most here will disagree, but I believe there WILL be some u-turn on FULL reopening.

    It absolutely has, couldn't agree more, from delays in numbers being released, fewer press conferences and yesterday's was utterly shocking, Michael Martin seems to have lost it, CMO looked uncomfortable and bewildered and you have Leo & Co in the back ground, sniping and stirring it, of course happy for FF to take all the blame. This is becoming very disconcerting and alarming and I'm wondering at this stage if this government will survive till September

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #2637
    gifted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,053 ✭✭✭gifted


    The CMO Glynn looks awful...he's aged in weeks...


  • #2638
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    irishblessing wrote: »
    When is this point? Because it's not being respected now, and we're due to send the kids back in little over a weeks' time.

    I wouldn't say most are "fine" with the risk, probably cautiously optimistic to holding their breath more like.

    When is this point? Well, this is the, er, point. We never know. So are we just to sit and wait for it to arrive?

    There should be parallel tracks being arranged, those who are not comfortable with their kids in school and those that are. There is no end in sight for covid-19, this needs to be done now.


  • #2639
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    It absolutely has, couldn't agree more, from delays in numbers being released, fewer press conferences and yesterday's was utterly shocking, Michael Martin seems to have lost it, CMO looked uncomfortable and bewildered and you have Leo & Co in the back ground, sniping and stirring it, of course happy for FF to take all the blame. This is becoming very disconcerting and alarming and I'm wondering at this stage if this government will survive till September

    That sniping and stirring from Leo needs to stop and stop fairly quickly. We need cohesive strong leadership not political point scoring. There should be absolutely no leaks ala yesterday and you do not publicly undermine NPHET if we are depending on people to follow guidelines.


  • #2640
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    gifted wrote: »
    The CMO Glynn looks awful...he's aged in weeks...

    I thought the very same, not being helped by childish sniping from unnamed FG TD'S undermining him, bizzare reporting during the week, essentially bring back Tony was the gist of it", utterly disgraceful, Dr. Glynn and professor Nolan seem to be the only reassuring faces left in what is becoming a fractious farce

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • #2641
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    When is this point? Well, this is the, er, point. We never know. So are we just to sit and wait for it to arrive?

    There should be parallel tracks being arranged, those who are not comfortable with their kids in school and those that are. There is no end in sight for covid-19, this needs to be done now.

    In my opinion, anyone who is completely 'comfortable' with their children going to school as things are planned, are overlooking the reality of the situation.


This discussion has been closed.
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