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Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

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  • #4682
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    Hego Damask wrote: »
    They want to keep the public terrified and locked in their homes, until deaths from suicides, untreated cancer etc are greater than covid - not to mention that economy is totally destroyed ....

    It’s very simple and has been explained many times but here goes;

    If the virus gets out of control, all the deaths you mention will happen, but by a factor of 2 or 3 or who knows, AS WELL AS the deaths due to C19.

    Do you understand this simple reality or do you require further illumination?


  • #4683
    harr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭harr


    Are members of NPHET group made up of HSE and HSA and certain scientist and doctors .. if so the HSA and HSE aren’t going to want to criticise the handling of meat factories.. little or no criticism from government of the handling of factories yet they are well able to freak out over house parties and directing blame away from what caused the current lockdown in the midlands.
    Even the new leaked recommendations are focussing on older people again. The same older people who have been doing everything by the book since original lockdown..
    To many brown envelopes floating around this country and to many officials Turing a blind eye to serious breaches of protocol in factories.


  • #4684
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,842 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Is there a press conference today?


  • #4685
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    JTMan wrote: »
    Irish Independent reports:

    - Older people to be asked to restrict movements.
    - Outdoor gatherings to be limited to 15 people.
    - Work from home to be required for those that can work from home. i.e. offices to re-close unless staff cannot work from home.
    - Max 6 people in a home from max 3 households

    Very serious NPHET concerns ahead of school reopenings.

    The majority of the rising cases is linked to the work and factory cases. What good will it do asking older people to restrict their movements? I presume a lot of older people are now pension age and not working within a cluster.
    I know other clusters are linked to parties. I presume these older people are not rocking it up to party with younger people.

    How can some of these older people genuinely restrict movements and isolate themselves from the world when we also have a housing crisis where many adults are living at home? Are the adult offspring supposed to isolate themselves and restrict movements.

    Outdoor gatherings to be restricted to 15 people. That's going to be disappointing for sports people as an example and maybe even weddings etc. How will this be enforced though for private gatherings in back yards etc?

    Work from home if you can - that will remain to be a good one all around.

    Max 6 people in a home from max 3 households - that's some more good advice. It will probably fly over many peoples head. Again, how will that be enforced? The people who's following the guidelines to maintain health, will follow this. The people who's losing interest in the guidelines and their civil duty, won't. Also is that 6 people in a home from max 3 households - is that per day or per week?


  • #4686
    Hego Damask
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Hego Damask


    PowerToWait wrote: »
    It’s very simple and has been explained many times but here goes;

    If the virus gets out of control, all the deaths you mention will happen, but by a factor of 2 or 3 or who knows, AS WELL AS the deaths due to C19.

    Do you understand this simple reality or do you require further illumination?

    Bull****


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  • #4687
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,995 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    We should do a UK on it . Stop testing in these meat plants etc . Only test if someone has symptoms . This has gone beyond stupid now. WHat happened to flattening the curve , we have to learn to live with it etc


  • #4688
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    2M is a big distance.

    If it is mandatory, we might as well stop public transport, flights, schools, taxi's, pubs, restaurants and well, just about everything.

    Simply not possible to keep people 2M apart.

    That's why the advice is 2m where possible. If we do it most of the time, the impact of where we cant will not have a huge impact. And 2m is not a huge distance


  • #4689
    Kh1993
    Closed Accounts Posts: 443 ✭✭Kh1993


    It’s probably been refused before and for privacy reasons etc, but it would be a good idea if the minutes of NPHETs latest meeting were published.

    It’d be interesting to see the rationale behind the latest restrictions, because to the average person here they don’t make sense. We all know they won’t be widely observed either. As someone mentioned, the people who watch the pressers, they’re not the people having house parties and massive gatherings. They’re already worried enough.


  • #4690
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    owlbethere wrote: »
    Outdoor gatherings to be restricted to 15 people. That's going to be disappointing for sports people as an example

    Independent article says its outdoor gatherings at home, i.e your back garden, again house parties.

    Not outdoor sports gatherings


  • #4691
    billybonkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭billybonkers


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Is there a press conference today?

    Expected today at the earliest they said


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  • #4692
    Hego Damask
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Hego Damask


    https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-08-18/spain-reports-37000-new-coronavirus-infections-in-the-last-week.html

    37,000 cases in one week, almost at March/April levels, death rate far far less ....


    life is going on.


  • #4693
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    We should do a UK on it . Stop testing in these meat plants etc . Only test if someone has symptoms . This has gone beyond stupid now. WHat happened to flattening the curve , we have to learn to live with it etc

    The sweep it under the carpet approach. Every mild or asymptomatic case we find is a good thing not a bad thing. The other option is do as you say and not test and find the problem as hospitals start to come under pressure as was the case in March


  • #4694
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,842 ✭ [Deleted User]


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Independent article says its outdoor gatherings at home, i.e your back garden, again house parties.

    Not outdoor sports gatherings

    Are you sure as it also mentions 6 people can congregate at a house from a max of 3 households.


  • #4695
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The sweep it under the carpet approach. Every mild or asymptomatic case we find is a good thing not a bad thing. The other option is do as you say and not test and find the problem as hospitals start to come under pressure as was the case in March

    How is it a good thing, if someone gets the mild strain they get immunity from the stronger strain


  • #4696
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Independent article says its outdoor gatherings at home, i.e your back garden, again house parties.

    Not outdoor sports gatherings

    Thanks for clearing that up. How will that be enforced?


  • #4697
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 917 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    Widdensushi wrote: »
    How is it a good thing, if someone gets the mild strain they get immunity from the stronger strain

    I would say that they are being picked up and people can then take measures to restrict movements. Of course one can also determine that picking up such cases mean it is active in the community and a new lockdown is needed.


  • #4698
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    owlbethere wrote: »
    The majority of the rising cases is linked to the work and factory cases. What good will it do asking older people to restrict their movements? I presume a lot of older people are now pension age and not working within a cluster.
    The majority of detected cases are in work & factories.

    I don't know what NPHET are recommending, but these cases don't just arrive out of nowhere. Someone has picked it up outside the factory, and has brought it in. Inside it spreads rapidly, and it is then sent back out into the community.

    The key thing is to stop the rise in cases, and even anecdotally we are hearing of cases popping up throughout the country.

    I agree our capability is much improved since March, but it also relies on every individual doing their bit to reduce risk as well (note - reduce, not hide inside).


  • #4699
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Widdensushi wrote: »
    How is it a good thing, if someone gets the mild strain they get immunity from the stronger strain

    Its not a mild strain and a strong stain, its a mild/ no disease or a serious disease. There is only 1 strain as serious / mild / asymptomatic cases come out of the same clusters.

    And detecting as many of the real infections as possible is a good thing. Its obviously better when there are none, but when there are, detect as many as possible


  • #4700
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,898 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Widdensushi wrote: »
    How is it a good thing

    Because you can (hopefully) get that person to self-isolate and prevent them infecting others


  • #4701
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Widdensushi wrote: »
    How is it a good thing, if someone gets the mild strain they get immunity from the stronger strain

    There is no mild or stronger strain. Being asymptomatic doesn't mean you have a weaker strain and thus, it is safe to pass on to someone else.


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  • #4702
    Renjit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    JTMan wrote: »
    Irish Independent reports:

    - Older people to be asked to restrict movements.
    - Outdoor gatherings to be limited to 15 people.
    - Work from home to be required for those that can work from home. i.e. offices to re-close unless staff cannot work from home.
    - Max 6 people in a home from max 3 households

    Very serious NPHET concerns ahead of school reopenings.

    Looks like kids had so much fun. Working class has to deal with it. Kids will have cereal back on the breakfast menu now.


  • #4703
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,718 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    owlbethere wrote: »
    Thanks for clearing that up. How will that be enforced?

    Drones flying over your home. Violators will be removed then.


  • #4704
    Renjit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    celt262 wrote: »
    I have no intention of working from home again I did it for 3 months and was near breaking point at end of it. I can go into the office and not be in close contact with anyone from morning till evening.

    You should if you can and your employer should recommend that too. I have been working from home since March. Even though the employer has started with reduced capacity (by booking), there is little interest in people going back considering the risk vs reward.


  • #4705
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Are you sure as it also mentions 6 people can congregate at a house from a max of 3 households.

    With regards to indoor gatherings in a house.

    Its completely wishy-washy


  • #4706
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    owlbethere wrote: »
    Thanks for clearing that up. How will that be enforced?

    Realistically it can't be, your relying on people to do it themselves


  • #4707
    Renjit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    owlbethere wrote: »
    The majority of the rising cases is linked to the work and factory cases. What good will it do asking older people to restrict their movements? I presume a lot of older people are now pension age and not working within a cluster.

    The idea is to limit the spread. Majority workers will be taking it to their homes and community if not controlled. Additionally, you have community transmission which we may not know more about.


  • #4708
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Based on what thinking seamus?
    Minimisation of risk. It would be naive to think there aren't outbreaks in other meat factories. The risk is low, but so is the cost. Avoiding them for a few weeks no big deal.
    If someone really can't live without ham slices in their sandwiches, cooking their own and keeping it in the fridge isn't an ordeal.


  • #4709
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Kh1993 wrote: »
    It’s probably been refused before and for privacy reasons etc, but it would be a good idea if the minutes of NPHETs latest meeting were published.

    It’d be interesting to see the rationale behind the latest restrictions, because to the average person here they don’t make sense. We all know they won’t be widely observed either. As someone mentioned, the people who watch the pressers, they’re not the people having house parties and massive gatherings. They’re already worried enough.

    We need more than that. We need to know who has skin in the game. It wasn't until Dr. Holohan stepped away that we learned that his wife is in an extremely vulnerable category, which had to have influenced his objectivity. How many on NPHET have vulnerable family members that they are particularly concerned about? No journalist has looked at the likes of Killeen to see what motivates scientists like him to drive a restrictive agenda.


  • #4710
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's why the advice is 2m where possible. If we do it most of the time, the impact of where we cant will not have a huge impact. And 2m is not a huge distance

    That essentially translates to "don't catch it unless you can't in which case you might catch it"

    I agree 2m is not a huge distance but it is hard to maintain. Most people I know have not observed it. Literally nobody I know maintained that at anytime throughout this.

    The aggregate of all of these micro decisions of people are resulting in uptick in cases. We are so focused on rules that apply to others but not us.
    Every other country has fines. Not because they need money because they realise that there is a selfish element in every society that will undermine the hard work of 80% plus of the population.

    We can't compare ourselves to Scandinavian or pacific countries as we don't have the discipline or political will to combat this. I include myself in this assessment too. I didn't stick to the letter of the rules. Pretending we all did is just burying our heads in the sand. If there was a fine I expect that would increase compliance and lead to lower transmission but we didn't. This is going to be a painful adjustment until a vaccine or effective treatment becomes available. I don't think either are on the horizon for now.


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  • #4711
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,842 ✭ [Deleted User]


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    With regards to indoor gatherings in a house.

    Its completely wishy-washy

    Do they expect the other 7 people on the property to pee on the rose bushes?


This discussion has been closed.
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