How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

17-08-2020 02:07PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The schools **** show is whats going to be the final curtain for this Government.

FF/FG and the Greens have been a shambles since minute 1

Just wait until the LC results come out, we'll have the exact same issues they're going through in the UK.

Sunday Sunday · 17-08-2020 02:08PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Sure today would be a grand day for teaching outside Rain hoping off the windows here. Though all jokes aside if all windows and or doors are to be kept open for ventilation purposes teaching this winter will be fun :eek:

Do the guidelines say that Windows and doors to be kept open? Ive only glanced at a few bits but haven't read through all of the schools stuff.

Mrsmum · 17-08-2020 02:12PM

The thing about parents contacting (bothering)schools rather than the other way round, is this really what schools want ? I really doubt it. To be perfectly honest, even though I am dying for information, I am leaving the school alone. There are nearly 800 pupils in the school my children attend, if even half of those parents were on to the school about their fears and their needs and what not and the school had to read and reply to all, well I can't see how the staff would get on with the work they need to be doing. So if leaving them alone is the wrong thing to do, I'm guilty.

brendanwalsh · 17-08-2020 02:12PM

This is a farce.
I didn’t sleep all night thinking about it.
We are being led into the Lions den by Leo and Voldemort.
What happens when the first teacher dies. Or when the first child dies from catching it in the school setting!?

What will it take to sort this out properly?

khalessi · 17-08-2020 02:16PM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Do the guidelines say that Windows and doors to be kept open? Ive only glanced at a few bits but haven't read through all of the schools stuff.

Just had a look could not see it mentioned

the corpo · 17-08-2020 02:16PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

The thing about parents contacting (bothering)schools rather than the other way round, is this really what schools want ? I really doubt it. To be perfectly honest, even though I am dying for information, I am leaving the school alone. There are nearly 800 pupils in the school my children attend, if even half of those parents were on to the school about their fears and their needs and what not and the school had to read and reply to all, well I can't see how the staff would get on with the work they need to be doing. So if leaving them alone is the wrong thing to do, I'm guilty.

It's a bit damned if you, damned if you don't. No-one wants to overwhelm the principals who must be going through hell trying to implement this plan, but asking them questions let's them know the general feeling amongst their school community, which is important.

the corpo · 17-08-2020 02:18PM

khalessi wrote: »

Just had a look could not see it mentioned

I think the roadmap got slightly edited, but I'm pretty sure the initial draft said doors/windows should be kept open "where possible".

They love an auld "where possible".

Lillyfae · 17-08-2020 02:21PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Your attitude towards children with additional needs says everything.

What attitude?? That they unfortunately might not have their needs adequately met for the forseeable future? No child will have their needs adequately met for the forseeable future. The goal has to be trying to provide the best possible scenario under the current circumstances.

Stateofyou · 17-08-2020 02:24PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Parents can not and should not be allowed to do this. This has to be made clear at all levels.

Well, until Ireland introduces mandatory sick pay for it's workers, reality is something different.

17-08-2020 02:28PM

gabeeg wrote: »

Scottish schools are just starting their second week back today, and it's unsurprisingly going quite badly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-53804140

How is that going badly - it seems the cases are due to outside of school clusters are the authorities are reacting appropriately. Its only going badly if you believe there will be no cases or that actually detecting and isolating cases is a bad thing

17-08-2020 02:30PM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

What about when an at risk student or teacher dies because their school could not accommodate 2 metre social distancing ??

Every major university in the world is moving to online learning and know its unsafe to have indoor lectures and classes . Those universities have better facilities , lecture halls and ultimately social distancing possibility than any school In Ireland. Yet teachers and kids are expected to step back into the cesspool and just hope no one dies.

Varadker and Martin will have blood on their hands very soon.

People are going to catch it and people are going to die. You need to get used to it. All we can do is minimise as much as possible. But ultimately you cannot isolate kids at home forever.

Deeec · 17-08-2020 02:31PM

the corpo wrote: »

It's a bit damned if you, damned if you don't. No-one wants to overwhelm the principals who must be going through hell trying to implement this plan, but asking them questions let's them know the general feeling amongst their school community, which is important.

At this stage ( schools are opening next week) I think every school should be able to send out an email to parents detailing what procedures will be implemented and what is expected of children, teachers and parents. Everyone understands that the plan is open to change. I dont think this is too much to ask.
We need to be given time to prepare our children for how school will be in the next year and what will be expected of them.

17-08-2020 02:34PM

Blondini wrote: »

Ironed out?

Like the the little minor problem of basically going against all current public health advice?

Ironed out? I would say its more of an industrual pneumatic fcucking press that is needed.

Have you read the public health advise for schools from the HSE? full of where possible/ if you can/ where appropriate. Basically its so open that if a schools decides they can open, they are compliant

17-08-2020 02:40PM

Soulsun wrote: »

Was speaking to a secondary school teacher at the weekend who works in two large secondary schools in Dublin.

He doesn’t know how the schools are gona open, and if they do, he reckons they will be closing two weeks later due to Covid outbreaks.

Didn’t do me the world of confidence!

We have kitted the kids out for school and everything is in order, so here’s hoping.

Its like there is a belief that covid grows organically out of the walls of schools or something. If there is low spread in your area, which is most of the country currently, it is very unlikely there will be an outbreak associated with a school in that area, if there high local spread in your area, its likely there will be clusters, and pods will be isolated, contacts tested. etc. This is what we will live with for this school year anyway. It's this or shutdown

But no doubt the first day there is a case in a school this thread will be full of told you so's, when the realists expect it to happen anyway

caveat emptor · 17-08-2020 02:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

People are going to catch it and people are going to die. You need to get used to it. All we can do is minimise as much as possible. But ultimately you cannot isolate kids at home forever.

Yeah except we know how to stop it.

https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/status/1295347936927211520?s=20

Blondini · 17-08-2020 02:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you read the public health advise for schools from the HSE? full of where possible/ if you can/ where appropriate. Basically its so open that if a schools decides they can open, they are compliant

Yup. They're all opening alright. And then ..... They're closing again.

JDD · 17-08-2020 02:41PM

As much as I have been hopping up and down wanting schools to reopen fully, and for my day to day work (WFH) I am very glad that they are reopening 5-days a week for all pupils next week, it does appear that the writing is on the wall here.

We have rising infections. Not unexpected given restrictions lifting, but even without the meat factory clusters the rate of rise is pretty concerning. It may not be in the community yet, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that community infections are likely to happen over the next month given the size of the clusters and the amount of people travelling around the country on holiday.

Kids travelling to different schools on buses, kids packed into classrooms (as normal) and kids heading to afterschools with children from other classes/schools means that it is utterly inevitable that, if there is community spread, the schools will be affected.

It looks like, to me, that restrictions in schools will be in place by October. Probably the week in/week out concept, with bussing and after-schools restricted and home-schooling to be completed on the week at home. I'm not in the least bit happy about this - I've come into some flack at work already for being so far behind on deadlines and that's with unprecedented leeway been given to me so far. But I'm beginning to resign myself to that fact that closure are going to happen.

Ho hum.:(:(

lulublue22 · 17-08-2020 02:45PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. I doubt most of us are just sitting back here and doing nothing. For one, we're on this post trying to figure this out, aren't we? And I emailed the principal at our school. I outlined our specific concerns. I gave a few of my insights too. About 2 weeks later I received a very vague reply about how it's being worked on and all parents will be contacted by end of this week.

Well then you got an answer they are working in implementing the guidelines and will update you at the end of this week. Seriously - an answer with a definite timeframe to outline the exact procedures.

eta - everyone is trying to work this out - guidelines were issued 4 weeks before the expected return to schools. Schools are working flat out to try and get up and running. I understand that patents want a bit of clarity but it is the deps late issue of guidelines which is the root cause of the delay.

lulublue22 · 17-08-2020 02:52PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

The thing about parents contacting (bothering)schools rather than the other way round, is this really what schools want ? I really doubt it. To be perfectly honest, even though I am dying for information, I am leaving the school alone. There are nearly 800 pupils in the school my children attend, if even half of those parents were on to the school about their fears and their needs and what not and the school had to read and reply to all, well I can't see how the staff would get on with the work they need to be doing. So if leaving them alone is the wrong thing to do, I'm guilty.

Nobody said it was the wrong thing to do - rather if you are that concerned about how your local school can implement the return to school plan then contacting the school in question is a better option than hand wringing on an internet forum about how the school hasn’t contacted you. As adults I presume parents who are concerned have the where with all to be proactive. :rolleyes:

There’s a fair amount of selective reading going on on this thread at this stage.

deiseindublin · 17-08-2020 02:52PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

We'll be in coats in the winter if we get that far. Presume all internal doors and windows will be open all the time to keep air flowing

Lots of fire doors are not allowed to be left open.

17-08-2020 02:52PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah except we know how to stop it.

https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/status/1295347936927211520?s=20

We have chosen the live with it strategy, now we have to live with it. If we had chosen the eliminate it strategy, we would be like New Zealand, shutting down every few months and ultimately probably losing as much time in the long term as through dealing with individual clusters as they arise

s1ippy · 17-08-2020 02:55PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

No excuse for this at all. Principals had absolutely nothing to be doing for three months of the last school year except come up with every scenario possible. So what if they were a waste of time. There would have at least been ideas to pick and choose from when the roadmap was announced.

As for SET - you'd swear special needs children were in the majority in schools the way some seem to be going on about it.

As somebody who works in the disability sector, I can tell you with confidence that virtually every school in the country has students with additional needs. There are schools who cater to more SEN students than mainstream ones. There are schools catering exclusively to students with disabilities. In thirteen years working in the education sector, I've never come across any school without pupils who have special needs.

combat14 · 17-08-2020 03:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

People are going to catch it and people are going to die. You need to get used to it. All we can do is minimise as much as possible. But ultimately you cannot isolate kids at home forever.

that's true the US only has had 170.000 deaths and rising there so far

the 1918-1920 global pandemic killed about 20,000 people here in Ireland that time . our population is slightly bigger now so maybe 30000+ would be an acceptable loss to some out there? why do we need masks in schools and shops at all at that low rate ?

gnf_ireland · 17-08-2020 03:04PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Class allocation on class size will make zero difference in our place - class numbers are practically the same and room size are uniform. However I love the shift to schools should do this - some have some haven’t etc bringing all responsibility back on to schools. Any parent who has attended an open night , school play or parent teacher meetings should have a fair idea of the layout of their child’s school. If parents have read the guidelines then they should know what is being proposed. If as a parent you are happy for your child to return to school under the current guidelines fair enough. If you are insure or unhappy re same then you need to vocalise that. It’s time for parents to be proactive rather than sit back and wait for the school. This plan was released 4 weeks before the proposed return to school. Most principals are working flat out trying to implement the guidelines - I’ve had 5 emails already this am. Normal issues re return to school haven’t stopped just because of covid.

>> class numbers are practically the same
I ran a standard deviation against the class size information available from the DES, and I can assure you that your school is the exception regarding class numbers being very much the same. This is not the standard across the country, based on this data set (class sizes for 2019-2020)

>>room size are uniform
Many schools have had extensions done over time, and I think its pretty safe to assume that the extensions done are not identical to the existing building. You school may be the exception to this rule.

>> If you are insure or unhappy re same then you need to vocalise that. Vocalise that to whom? The first point of contact is to the principal and the school to get the details of how the plan will work at a practical level. At the moment, schools are working through the detail and dont want random parents contacting them in that regard.
Its not practical to raise concerns further, when there is no detail associated to them. You cannot raise concerns without some sort of evidence.

If as a parent you are happy for your child to return to school under the current guidelines fair enough.
Its not so much happy with the current set-up (pending detail), but as parents we also have to make a decision as to the worst of two evils. Children need to get back to school for a number of reasons, and given the choice of taking a reasonable risk on this or having them sit at home for "distance learning" for this academic year - given my experiences of last term, as a parent it is a risk I feel we have to take. Others may not think that, and that is fine

combat14 · 17-08-2020 03:07PM

will children/students and teachers be properly insured if they become sick with covid19 while in schools ? does anyone know?

byhookorbycrook · 17-08-2020 03:08PM

combat14 wrote: »

will children/students and teachers be properly insured if they become sick with covid19 while in schools ? does anyone know?

No, of course not . Would they be covered in a shopping centre ?

lulublue22 · 17-08-2020 03:16PM

gnf_ireland wrote: »

>> class numbers are practically the same
I ran a standard deviation against the class size information available from the DES, and I can assure you that your school is the exception regarding class numbers being very much the same. This is not the standard across the country, based on this data set (class sizes for 2019-2020)

>>room size are uniform
Many schools have had extensions done over time, and I think its pretty safe to assume that the extensions done are not identical to the existing building. You school may be the exception to this rule.

>> If you are insure or unhappy re same then you need to vocalise that. Vocalise that to whom? The first point of contact is to the principal and the school to get the details of how the plan will work at a practical level. At the moment, schools are working through the detail and dont want random parents contacting them in that regard.
Its not practical to raise concerns further, when there is no detail associated to them. You cannot raise concerns without some sort of evidence.

If as a parent you are happy for your child to return to school under the current guidelines fair enough.
Its not so much happy with the current set-up (pending detail), but as parents we also have to make a decision as to the worst of two evils. Children need to get back to school for a number of reasons, and given the choice of taking a reasonable risk on this or having them sit at home for "distance learning" for this academic year - given my experiences of last term, as a parent it is a risk I feel we have to take. Others may not think that, and that is fine

You seem to be a numbers guy . I don’t know why there is a difference between your numbers ( might possibly be due to the reliability of the data ) However in my experience and those that I know numbers throughout the school would be in and around the same. 29/ 30 / 31 I expect if you asked the teachers on here it would be a similar story. Obviously that may not apply to the entire country - it is similar to classes of 40 - have never cone across it. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Re extensions I can only comment on my own school which I did - it would make no difference to us.

Re vocalising - first port of call is your principal yes and or your TD. While specific information is scant at the moment -Class size is an issue , non wearing of masks is an issue , bus transport is an issue.

I agree with you re making a decision about the lesser of two evils and used the phrase not concerned more in relation to parents weighing up the options and deciding what is/ was the best option tor them as opposed to not concerned in terms of not being bothered. It may not have read that way.

17-08-2020 03:26PM

combat14 wrote: »

that's true the US only has had 170.000 deaths and rising there so far

the 1918-1920 global pandemic killed about 20,000 people here in Ireland that time . our population is slightly bigger now so maybe 30000+ would be an acceptable loss to some out there? why do we need masks in schools and shops at all at that low rate ?

Whats your solution? Close the nation until 2022?

I am not arguing for complete absence of restrictions, but we need to find a way to live with it, and in doing that we will have to take risks, we will find new risks that we did not anticipate, and we will find better ways of doing things.

Spanish Flu was also more deadly than covid, and there were fewer treatment options.

drunkmonkey · 17-08-2020 03:33PM

I think there going to have to be a bit more specific with symptoms, the HSE say you should get a test with any 1 symptom. No doctor is going to look at any child or adult this winter there all just going to be sent for tests without any due diligence. Classroom are going to be closed all over the country in the first day.
The current model of diagnosis is wrong, any type of cough or sniffles shouldn't trigger a covid test.

khalessi · 17-08-2020 03:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats your solution? Close the nation until 2022?

I am not arguing for complete absence of restrictions, but we need to find a way to live with it, and in doing that we will have to take risks, we will find new risks that we did not anticipate, and we will find better ways of doing things.

Spanish Flu was also more deadly than covid, and there were fewer treatment options.

Studies have shown that Covid19 is comparable to the Spanish Flu so far.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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