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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #1802
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Nobody will force anyone to turn up to work if they don’t feel safe , and anyone who has anxiety about school safety won’t have any issues getting a GP to write them a sick cert

    I think it is fairer to everyone involved if you make a stand and put your stake in the ground so they at least know up front, rather than getting a sick note the morning you are supposed to show up. Get the note in advance and communicate in advance.

    It will be carnage enough without that.


  • #1803
    gabeeg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭gabeeg


    i_surge wrote: »
    Because they knew the teachers would complain on boards but still turn up for work, such is the docile Irish way.

    I am also shocked by the lack of creativity, I already have about 10 ideas I was going to list but what's the point.

    If there was ever a reason to strike this is it.

    I dunno about everyone else but I'd love to hear your 10 ideas


  • #1804
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Don't have any more kids. It is a disaster for everyone.

    We can borrow for your pensions.


  • #1805
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    gabeeg wrote: »
    I dunno about everyone else but I'd love to hear your 10 ideas

    Only idea I've seen from them so far is go on strike.


  • #1806
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Teacher sick leave is quite limited, if you miss a Friday and Monday , the weekend is counted as 4 days .

    Not if you go out on long term sick.
    Sit out the year on sick benefit due to anxiety and stress.
    Wait till a vaccine comes or they come up with safe working solutions.


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  • #1807
    Purplewaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭Purplewaters


    The fact this plan took 5 months and has most teachers returning to rhe same set up as March with maybe one hour extra max cleaning per week is just crazy. These politicians make so much money and they couldn't change anything???


  • #1808
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Only idea I've seen from them so far is go on strike.

    leaves another 9


  • #1809
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    khalessi wrote: »
    Gps have told teachers to go to Medmark and Medmark will judge it by the lists of very high risk and high risk.

    Not if you go to your GP and tell them you’re stressed and anxious and too stressed to work


  • #1810
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Not if you go out on long term sick.
    Sit out the year on sick benefit due to anxiety and stress.
    Wait till a vaccine comes or they come up with safe working solutions.

    Rolling sick leave measured on 2 different scales, go on half pay etc


  • #1811
    gabeeg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭gabeeg


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Only idea I've seen from them so far is go on strike.

    It is tempting though I'll bet.

    All you have to do is organise a nationwide strike and he'll tell you his 10 ideas.

    Look, I'm not a teacher, but if I were you I'd do it.


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  • #1812
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    i_surge wrote: »
    I think it is fairer to everyone involved if you make a stand and put your stake in the ground so they at least know up front, rather than getting a sick note the morning you are supposed to show up. Get the note in advance and communicate in advance.

    It will be carnage enough without that.

    Not possible. I can't ring work tomorrow and say, hey I'm going to be sick on the 27th August. You can do this for appointments and procedures obviously, but not normal extended sick leave.


  • #1813
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    Purplewaters wrote: »
    Realistically the goverment should have divided the school week into morning or afternoon slots, halved classes, and teachers would teach all topics then provide work for the remaining 3 hours. For parents who are at work during the second slot, each case would be assessed, if it is a one parent household where there is no one there, their child would be supervised by auxiliary staff who (cost money) but supervise the work like a homework club. If a parent is working from home they have veen given 3 hours of child care and work that the child should be able to complete independently. Teachers have additional children in their class doing work anytime there is an absence and it does not require the parent to be actively helping rhe entire time. The homework club style supervision could also be extended for SEN and disadvantahed families who would benefit. 4th year teaching students could be asked to participate one day a week if they were paid like a student nurse. Realistically options like this would work but nobody wanted to have to organise and pay for it. So don't believe this whole full reopening is all we can do rubbish.

    I would have done a variant on that - split the day into halves and teachers just teach Irish/English/Maths in class. I wouldn't have teachers provide work for 3 hours (that's a lot of work and you'd need to explain it in class - half day sessions would be tight for time) but keep something like the RTE home school hub on the go to cover Art/SESE/Music etc. You could stream lessons using RTE&TG4 as well as having them available online. Have an online school set up for immuno compromised teachers to teach immuno compromised kids from home - use Zoom or create a similar platform.

    Tbh I'd go for week on/week off rather than half day sessions but either would be better than the current 'plan'.


  • #1814
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    gabeeg wrote: »
    I dunno about everyone else but I'd love to hear your 10 ideas

    I know you being facetious because you are eager to get back to work spreading covid but anyway

    Top of my head

    Repurpose various community buildings in the locale to increase space

    Teachers probably more at risk than students / so build a partition. This gives the option of a teacher owning the room and having students come to them.

    Use large halls and recruit non teacher supervisors to enable the creation of new homework club type spaces to solve the problem of childcare but allow for blended self motivated learning (but supervised to stop kids being kids).

    Goes without saying, full mask usage by everyone. No excuses. Sackable, expulsion risk if you take the piss. Outdoor distanced breathing breaks allowed as required or at intervals.


  • #1815
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,671 ✭✭✭touts


    My son's school is due to open in less than two weeks. We got a notice this evening on the school app to say they were working on the safe return procedure and hoped to communicate it to parents by the end of this week.

    It's going to be ****ing chaos! The parents WhatsApp group is exploding. No one knows what the situation is with washing uniforms, staggered start times, full/part days.

    Norma Foley has left this to each school to work out for themselves. She needs to be sacked immediately and replaced with someone who actually wants to lead and do the job.


  • #1816
    Purplewaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭Purplewaters


    This country is madness also where if you say a word about someone who is long term unemployed you're wrong, they have a right 6o not work and have a house and social welfare etc. and yet it seems to be so acceptable to criticise teachers who went to college, pay taxes and educate your children. At this point maybe they should just put all school staff on covid payment and reassess later on. That supposed threat is a better option for most of us then what is being proposed.


  • #1817
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    touts wrote: »
    My son's school is due to open in less than two weeks. We got a notice this evening on the school app to say they were working on the safe return procedure and hoped to communicate it to parents by the end of this week.

    It's going to be ****ing chaos! The parents WhatsApp group is exploding. No one knows what the situation is with washing uniforms, staggered start times, full/part days.

    Norma Foley has left this to each school to work out for themselves. She needs to be sacked immediately and replaced with someone who actually wants to lead and do the job.

    Agree completely. The minute FF came on board it turned to disaster. And they are getting away with it big time.


  • #1818
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Agree completely. The minute FF came on board it turned to disaster. And they are getting away with it big time.

    They were working off the FG plan or lack of one. I dont care which party it is, both fecked up re planning for a return.


  • #1819
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Go back to county lockdown and let the counties with smaller/acceptable numbers open schools.

    2 weeks to see impact of this


  • #1820
    Purplewaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭Purplewaters


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    I would have done a variant on that - split the day into halves and teachers just teach Irish/English/Maths in class. I wouldn't have teachers provide work for 3 hours (that's a lot of work and you'd need to explain it in class - half day sessions would be tight for time) but keep something like the RTE home school hub on the go to cover Art/SESE/Music etc. You could stream lessons using RTE&TG4 as well as having them available online. Have an online school set up for immuno compromised teachers to teach immuno compromised kids from home - use Zoom or create a similar platform.

    Tbh I'd go for week on/week off rather than half day sessions but either would be better than the current 'plan'.

    I suppose this would come down to routine ans socialisation. Figured half day would give children and parents a routine.


  • #1821
    Purplewaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭Purplewaters


    combat14 wrote: »
    at least teachers would get a free house then like the LT unemployed and safe from soon to be rampant covid in schools too

    its sad when you're actually jealous of people on the covid social welfare payment. I feel sorry for businesses going under but I really feel its better than this.


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  • #1822
    Sunday Sunday
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Sunday Sunday


    People need to get a bit of perspective on this, most of those infected do fine. So fine in fact that some have had it and never even known it. Mild illness for 99% of cases, seriously.

    It's hardly ebola or rabies or CJD now is it.

    Give it a while and it will be as run of the mill as any other routine viral infection.

    Of course we hear about the bad stories and schools with cases. We don't hear about the millions recovered or the schools that are doing just fine.


  • #1823
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    Purplewaters wrote: »
    I suppose this would come down to routine ans socialisation. Figured half day would give children and parents a routine.

    It can be seen both ways I think, some parents wouldn't benefit much from kids being in school for a short time. I'd wonder too how schools would manage to clean classrooms in between groups... But isn't it mad that both of us came up with much better plans than anything the department bigwigs have managed?

    It's pure lack of effort, lack of understanding or lack of care from them. I'm not sure which.


  • #1824
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    Purplewaters wrote: »
    This being 6 months on from a lockdown where they already were isolated for months. I wish they had given 3 plans based on current situation in september and chosen an option. This uncertainty is really unfair for staff and for parents who have concerns.

    I am not going to comment on the first half of the message as I think this is something that has to be worked through between the unions and the department. But no one should be forced to work if they feel unsafe - the question becomes what roles/benefits do they receive while they are not available to do their standard job. This is one between the organisation (Union) and the employer (Department) only.

    But I want to 100% agree with the second half of the comment quoted above. The new government placed all their chips into the schools unconditionally opening in September, with absolutely no plan b, c or d. It was all in on black on the roulette wheel. Its looking increasingly likely that the ball will land on red, and there will be egg on a lot of government faces - and they will receive a massive backlash for it (and rightly so). They are gambling with the physical health, mental health and education of multiple generations.

    There should have been 3 plans drawn up, with one being what happens if the schools can open, the second is if the numbers are a bit too high for comfort and the third if the schools have to close again. Its likely all three scenarios will happen during the 2020-21 academic year, and there should be a seamless transition between them. Instead we will have carnage in a fortnights time when the schools cannot open or the schools open and have to close a few weeks later.

    I said this on the previous thread back in April - the schools should have closed immediately and all efforts should have gone into coming up with a way for schools to open in September. I dont believe blended learning works for most primary school kids and definitely not those below 2nd class, but if done right it would be better than the fiasco in the last term (outside those teachers who went above and beyond)

    What we have now is 2 weeks out from schools due to go back, many parents have heard very little, if anything, from their schools and have lost faith in the system. Personally I believe that the chances of making it through the first term without a closure is close to zero - and the scary part about it is there appears to be no plans to handle that scenario when it arises (because the government has gambled on black only)

    Sad state of affairs, especially when the parliament should understand how schools work - since so many of them come from that background !


  • #1825
    JDxtra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    My local primary school is very slow to change anything, and they really fumbled up remote teaching.

    Despite protests from parents (many who were working), the best they could do was a poorly compiled list of work sent by email and ONE Zoom call per class at the end of the year (which started late and cut off early in some cases).

    So, I'm really not keen on any blended learning approach going forward. I accept other schools and teachers put the effort in and made it work for them.

    Essentially my children have had little to no formal learning from our school since March.


  • #1826
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Sunday Sunday wrote: »
    People need to get a bit of perspective on this, most of those infected do fine. So fine in fact that some have had it and never even known it.

    It's hardly ebola or rabies or CJD now is it.

    Give it a while and it will be as run of the mill as any other routine viral infection.

    You know this thread is about schools being back right? This isn't where we discuss conspiracy theories or argue the deadliness of a global pandemic that can easily overrun health care systems, and may cause long term/permanent damage. So take your "its hardly xyz" comments and kindly shove them. The rest of us are trying to have a mature conversation regarding the stressful and real situation facing our kids and families.


  • #1827
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    khalessi wrote: »
    They were working off the FG plan or lack of one. I dont care which party it is, both fecked up re planning for a return.

    No I don't care what happens, but if your a Minister for ED you do your job. Tough times now admittedly but it is the Minister's job.

    Haven't seen or heard a word from Norma Foley on any outlet, has anyone else?


  • #1828
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    If it was me, I would just resign and look to get one of the private teaching gigs.

    I wouldn't accept risking my health for any job.


  • #1829
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Sunday Sunday wrote: »
    People need to get a bit of perspective on this, most of those infected do fine. So fine in fact that some have had it and never even known it.

    It's hardly ebola or rabies or CJD now is it.

    Give it a while and it will be as run of the mill as any other routine viral infection.

    I worked with CJD. So no it is not CJD, it is more contagious.

    Covid19 is considered worse than Ebola

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/coronavirusfrontlines/2020/07/31/why-is-covid-19-more-deadly-than-ebola-an-infectious-disease-doctor-explains/#6b9f965ef734

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-spread-of-coronavirus-much-worse-than-ebola-11956484


  • #1830
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    It can be seen both ways I think, some parents wouldn't benefit much from kids being in school for a short time. I'd wonder too how schools would manage to clean classrooms in between groups... But isn't it mad that both of us came up with much better plans than anything the department bigwigs have managed?

    It's pure lack of effort, lack of understanding or lack of care from them. I'm not sure which.

    If I had to make the call I would say week on, week off - to allow for a full deep clean at the weekend between the groups, and try keep siblings in the same groups if possible.

    I am not sure where half days work with school transport and similar issues.

    I think the lack of planning is going to undo years of progress we have made in terms of special needs education, and we will be back to what we had when I was a child, and likely to take years to recover from it


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  • #1831
    Purplewaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭Purplewaters


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    It can be seen both ways I think, some parents wouldn't benefit much from kids being in school for a short time. I'd wonder too how schools would manage to clean classrooms in between groups... But isn't it mad that both of us came up with much better plans than anything the department bigwigs have managed?

    It's pure lack of effort, lack of understanding or lack of care from them. I'm not sure which.

    I figure cafes clean between groups so similar idea and it ar least would mean everyone is spaced out. 15 mins in middle of the day extea break for cleaning tables.

    As far as this 99percent are fine, anyone can be the one (or usually more) percent. We can't sacrifice 1 percent of our population.


This discussion has been closed.
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