How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Sunday Sunday

Downlinz wrote: »

Asian countries which have dealt with pandemics in the recent past have seen mask wearing become a common and accepted part of day to day life. On trains, in schools and offices you'll see them everywhere in any large city in China, Japan or South Korea.

While they have had to cope with their fair share of pandemics the reason for mask wearing predates most of that and is rooted culturally.

It's been commonplace for decades and has as much to do with pollution or Qi than it has to do with respiratory courtesy. It's not a new practice in Asian countries.

NelRom

At least when the schools don't reopen or are forced to close...we have a fully workable Island-wide digital education plan ready to rollout

drunkmonkey

How much does a teacher cost all in for a year? Primary/Secondary?

Read an article the other day about a bunch of parents who directly hired a teacher, could we see it happen here, suppose I'd pay a couple of thousand a year to have the kids in a safer environment. Could a teacher handle 15 kids, at 3k each and squeeze the current curriculum into 5mts with the smaller class, they could do it twice a year earning 70k before tax and still have 2mts off. Might work for younger classes especially.

gabeeg

The first rule of school club is that you do not talk about school club.

Stateofyou

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How much does a teacher cost all in for a year? Primary/Secondary?

Read an article the other day about a bunch of parents who directly hired a teacher, could we see it happen here, suppose I'd pay a couple of thousand a year to have the kids in a safer environment. Could a teacher handle 15 kids, at 3k each and squeeze the current curriculum into 5mts with the smaller class, they could do it twice a year earning 70k before tax and still have 2mts off. Might work for younger classes especially.

Where would they fit 15 kids 2 metres apart?

This thread is definitely worth reading - especially the consecutive posts by a parent Olive O'Connor.
https://twitter.com/oliveblogs/status/1294757790184091648

wirelessdude01

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How much does a teacher cost all in for a year? Primary/Secondary?

Read an article the other day about a bunch of parents who directly hired a teacher, could we see it happen here, suppose I'd pay a couple of thousand a year to have the kids in a safer environment. Could a teacher handle 15 kids, at 3k each and squeeze the current curriculum into 5mts with the smaller class, they could do it twice a year earning 70k before tax and still have 2mts off. Might work for younger classes especially.

Where is this going to take place?

St.Spodo

Time for some political leadership now, we need to face the reality that schools cannot open under the current plan with cases in the hundreds each day and rising. We know children over 10 spread the disease as well as adults do, we know about airborne transmission and we know it doesn't take long for the disease to reach vulnerable populations when it is circulating rapidly in the community. It's terrible that children haven't been in school in 6 months, but it's not as terrible as lots of people dying.

i_surge

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

While they have had to cope with their fair share of pandemics the reason for mask wearing predates most of that and is rooted culturally.

It's been commonplace for decades and has as much to do with pollution or Qi than it has to do with respiratory courtesy. It's not a new practice in Asian countries.

Why is this even an excuse? Do we need 10 years of experience before we will adopt best practice?

The Unbearables

They've had literally 5 months to come up with a plan and this is it.

The hail Mary option.

Jim Root

St.Spodo wrote: »

Time for some political leadership now, we need to face the reality that schools cannot open under the current plan with cases in the hundreds each day and rising. We know children over 10 spread the disease as well as adults do, we know about airborne transmission and we know it doesn't take long for the disease to reach vulnerable populations when it is circulating rapidly in the community. It's terrible that children haven't been in school in 6 months, but it's not as terrible as lots of people dying.

Political leadership would see civil servant salaries cut in line with the new reality.

combat14

only 66 cases today and no deaths - much better than yesterday looks like we are back on track to reopen schools

“We must all learn to behave and interact in a new way over the coming months so that COVID-19 cannot take root again in our communities. Please avoid crowds, reduce your social contacts, keep your distance from others, wash your hands and wear face coverings.”

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-recommendations-coming-to-protect-the-vulnerable-as-reckless-socialising-cannot-continue-stark-warning-as-66-new-cases-of-covid-19-confirmed-in-ireland-39453766.html

gabeeg

combat14 wrote: »

only 66 cases today and no deaths - much better than yesterday looks like we are back on track to reopen schools

“We must all learn to behave and interact in a new way over the coming months so that COVID-19 cannot take root again in our communities. Please avoid crowds, reduce your social contacts, keep your distance from others, wash your hands and wear face coverings.”

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-recommendations-coming-to-protect-the-vulnerable-as-reckless-socialising-cannot-continue-stark-warning-as-66-new-cases-of-covid-19-confirmed-in-ireland-39453766.html

It's a Sunday.

Sunday's numbers are almost always low

Sunday Sunday

i_surge wrote: »

Why is this even an excuse? Do we need 10 years of experience before we will adopt best practice?

Best practice is wearing medical grade face masks in the correct fashion. What we are doing now is not even close, probably partly causing some infections rather than preventing them.

Take a walk around your local supermarket car park to see the latest fashion accessory, the one earring mask, the chin support, the beard bra, the nose expose, the rear view mirror ornament. You'll struggle to find anyone wearing the right mask the right way.

Too much emphasis on masks.

i_surge

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Best practice is wearing medical grade face masks in the correct fashion. What we are doing now is not even close, probably partly causing some infections rather than preventing them.

Take a walk around your local supermarket car park to see the latest fashion accessory, the one earring mask, the chin support, the beard bra, the nose expose, the rear view mirror ornament. You'll struggle to find anyone wearing the right mask the right way.

Too much emphasis on masks.

Exactly!

I'm just asking why we are collectively such fools compared to our Asian betters.

Most people aren't intellectually disabled which is about the only excuse.

BonsaiKitten

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How much does a teacher cost all in for a year? Primary/Secondary?

Read an article the other day about a bunch of parents who directly hired a teacher, could we see it happen here, suppose I'd pay a couple of thousand a year to have the kids in a safer environment. Could a teacher handle 15 kids, at 3k each and squeeze the current curriculum into 5mts with the smaller class, they could do it twice a year earning 70k before tax and still have 2mts off. Might work for younger classes especially.

I've actually been approached by parents to do exactly that. It's an affluent area so they were offering to pay a lot per child for it, certainly more than 3k. With a small group you'd definitely see good academic progress. The idea seems to have come from America.

I didn't take them up on it but it was a tempting offer, especially when you see the shambles of a situation teachers are walking into in September! I'm sure there are sub or jobsharing teachers out there who would jump at the chance.

Purplewaters

combat14 wrote: »

only 66 cases today and no deaths - much better than yesterday looks like we are back on track to reopen schools

“We must all learn to behave and interact in a new way over the coming months so that COVID-19 cannot take root again in our communities. Please avoid crowds, reduce your social contacts, keep your distance from others, wash your hands and wear face coverings.”

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-recommendations-coming-to-protect-the-vulnerable-as-reckless-socialising-cannot-continue-stark-warning-as-66-new-cases-of-covid-19-confirmed-in-ireland-39453766.html

Just so you know the average is still awful and 266 cases in a weekend is not good. Some people will put any spin on anything once it means schools are back for reopen. Why haven't they asked parents and teachers alike to pick blended, hybrid or full time school to even get a feel for what people want or need. Even if all options aren't possible there are some parents who would rather their kids in a half day with work provided for the other half than this option which can only be considered dangerous.

Purplewaters

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I've actually been approached by parents to do exactly that. It's an affluent area so they were offering to pay a lot per child for it, certainly more than 3k. With a small group you'd definitely see good academic progress.

I didn't take them up on it but it was a tempting offer, especially when you see the shambles of a situation teachers are walking into in September! I'm sure there are sub or jobsharing teachers out there who would jump at the chance.

This is popular in other countries like America where the back to school option is a disaster like ours. The goverment could lose a lot of teachers to this kind of set up. Realistically even 6 kids in a safe grouping could pay 800 each a month, which would be less than most creches to have a teacher to themselves in a safe set up.

KildareP

lulublue22 wrote: »

quite possibly - as is schools will struggle with staff shortages. I still don’t understand where all these subs are going to come from. They seem to have one focus and one focus only open the schools for all children. I think keeping them open will be the tricky part.

Once they get them open, even for only a week, that's all matters, they can pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

It will be advice from NPHET and/or the local ETBs and BOMs who will cause a school to have to close and to take the backlash, not the government or the DES.

It's a total cop out by the DES - from an aspirational roadmap doc telling the public schools will open while leaving everything down to each school to figure out how to meet those aspirations, confusing flip-flops on masks, publishing all guidance and updates late on Friday afternoons, lots of aspects of those guidance with nothing more than a "T.B.C. Please check back at some indeterminate future date".

i_surge

KildareP wrote: »

Once they get them open, even for only a week, that's all matters, they can pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

It will be advice from NPHET and/or the local ETBs and BOMs who will cause a school to have to close and to take the backlash, not the government or the DES.

It's a total cop out by the DES - from an aspirational roadmap doc telling the public schools will open while leaving everything down to each school to figure out how to meet those aspirations, confusing flip-flops on masks, publishing all guidance and updates late on Friday afternoons, lots of aspects of those guidance with nothing more than a "T.B.C. Please check back at some indeterminate future date".

The blind leading the blind.

Don't accept it folks.

drunkmonkey

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Where is this going to take place?

Wet pub or my shed, could easily accommodate a small number. It's already happening, locations can be easily found, its whether teachers would see this as an alternative to hopping class to class with 30 random kids every few hours, I'm not a teacher but it doesn't seem like a bad idea, sure some teachers would feel better.

Mrsmum

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Wet pub or my shed, could easily accommodate a small number. It's already happening, locations can be easily found, its whether teachers would see this as an alternative to hopping class to class with 30 random kids every few hours, I'm not a teacher but it doesn't seem like a bad idea, sure some teachers would feel better.

When you say hopping class to class, I presume you are speaking of secondary schools (?), in which case the parents would have to engage numerous teachers for the different subjects.

Purplewaters

Realistically groups of even 6 kids could socially distance in parents houses. There is a rhetoric currently as if the public owns teachers ans they should do what they're told. If people started to find their own solutions to unsafe working conditions then public opinion might start to shift. Personally I wish rhe meat factory workers had fought for their rights but sounds like they were in no position to with no rights. Health workers fought for better ppe and people fully supported this and rightly so. I don't get the opinions of the people saying teachers should jsut get on with it . Realistically they are also trying to get safe conditions for your kids.

Stateofyou

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Best practice is wearing medical grade face masks in the correct fashion. What we are doing now is not even close, probably partly causing some infections rather than preventing them.

Take a walk around your local supermarket car park to see the latest fashion accessory, the one earring mask, the chin support, the beard bra, the nose expose, the rear view mirror ornament. You'll struggle to find anyone wearing the right mask the right way.

Too much emphasis on masks.

I actually see the opposite. 90% of people seem to wear them and correctly. Very few people are stupid about it comparably and I always notice, because they're the minority. At the end of the day, cloth face masks are proven to be more effective than they would cause problems by wearing.

Sunday Sunday

Stateofyou wrote: »

At the end of the day, cloth face masks are proven to be more effective than they would cause problems by wearing.

Where was that proven?

drunkmonkey

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Where was that proven?

Absolutely no where these are the only studies outside of a laboratory, https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/
I don't believe their 90% figure, I'm seeing no where near that much clinically correct use from putting on, not touching and disposing of. It's not happening, it's a lie to say any different bar you work in healthcare or a laboratory.

Stateofyou

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Where was that proven?

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

I have lost count on the released research and medical professionals who have put their name behind it. I don't believe you haven't seen this on any news source anywhere. Simple google search and you'll be sorted.

jrosen

Just being out and about the majority I see are wearing them correctly. of course there will be those who are not. Hopefully incorrect use is better than no use?

Anyway masks are here to stay for the foreseeable anyway.

Stateofyou

jrosen wrote: »

Just being out and about the majority I see are wearing them correctly. of course there will be those who are not. Hopefully incorrect use is better than no use?

Anyway masks are here to stay for the foreseeable anyway.

Yes, I have seen that statement by medical professionals over and over. Some will wear them incorrectly, and it may cause issues. But if the majority of people wear masks and wear them correctly, the benefit obviously outweighs any negative and certainly over not wearing them at all.

Sunday Sunday

Stateofyou wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

I have lost count on the released research and medical professionals who have put their name behind it. I don't believe you haven't seen this on any news source anywhere. Simple google search and you'll be sorted.

I'm not so sure, I've seen a lot of conflicting reports but haven't seen it said anywhere that incorrect use is better than no mask.

Stateofyou

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

I'm not so sure, I've seen a lot of conflicting reports but haven't seen it said anywhere that incorrect use is better than no mask.

Surely you have, I think maybe you need to tweak the context a bit? An individual's incorrect use could probably be as dangerous as no mask. However if you look at the larger population, who are wearing masks and wearing them correctly, the collective benefit is obviously there as is shown in the research.