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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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  • #1112
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Another Indian manufacturer apparently with the capacity to produce several hundred million of doses. Agreements signed with J&J and Baylor (?). Hoping to produce doses for $1 to $2 each.

    https://indianexpress.com/article/india/covid-vaccine-production-be-ties-up-with-jj-arm-baylor-college-of-medicine-6553822/

    (edit) - Baylor is Dr Peter Hotez's team, which anyone who watches US TV news will know well


  • #1113
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    GPoint wrote: »
    https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-oneill-no-way-id-take-russias-coronavirus-vaccine-correct-safety-testing-1060367

    Professor Luke O'Neill says there's 'no way' he would take Russia's supposed coronavirus vaccine until it has gone through rigorous safety testing.

    Why so much prejudice? Supposed vaccine? At least Russia is able to produce their own vaccine. This country is hoping to be given one.

    Russia bad, EU good

    It's laughable at this stage


  • #1114
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    GPoint wrote: »
    https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-oneill-no-way-id-take-russias-coronavirus-vaccine-correct-safety-testing-1060367

    Professor Luke O'Neill says there's 'no way' he would take Russia's supposed coronavirus vaccine until it has gone through rigorous safety testing.

    Why so much prejudice? Supposed vaccine? At least Russia is able to produce their own vaccine. This country is hoping to be given one.

    It’s not prejudice. They simply have not gone though the same rigorous trials and they’ve also called stage 3 trials approval, which is pure spin to get headlines.

    There’s a level of trusted systems and transparency required for something like this.

    If it goes though rigorous testing and the production facilities meet and are verified to meet EMA standards that’s a different matter.

    The levels of validation done by the EMA, FDA and their Japanese and similar counterparts are absolutely enormous. Medicines and vaccines don’t just end up on the market like that and production processes and facilities also have extremely serious regulatory oversight.

    If you then add the fact it’s injectable there’s a whole other level of regulatory oversight around that.


  • #1115
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    It’s not prejudice. They simply have not gone though the same rigorous trials and they’ve also called stage 3 trials approval, which is pure spin to get headlines.

    There’s a level of trusted systems and transparency required for something like this.

    If it goes though rigorous testing and the production facilities meet and are verified to meet EMA standards that’s a different matter.


    Irony in all of this is that any drug in past decades would require around 10 years approval,testing before it would be released to masses, never-mind mind the vaccine, if we count that its been about 6-8 months at best no one should be in position to release one for another decade if done right.


    as if some think that trail stage 3 is injecting few thousand people and seeing if they are ok within weeks or month is fine, the russian vaccine or whoever pumps out another should be fine as any.


    as truth be told i dont imagine many will opt for it even if they say so, as if done correctly we should see one maybe in 2030 when this thing will be history.


  • #1116
    Marhay70
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Absolutely, this is a PR stunt by Putin. I have no doubt that the Russian vaccine will have merit but to say it is out there for general consumption is nonsense, it will complete the trials like the rest but just not as openly.


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  • #1117
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    They’ve accelerated the process but they’re not skipping parts. The approval system in Europe and the USA is happening by doing steps simultaneously and more rapidly. It’s still extremely transparent and is hitting all of the correct targets.

    There are unprecedented resources being put in to get these things out quickly.

    The issues are two fold. If you release an improperly tested product, with unknown production facilities and something goes wrong at best it might not work effectively, at worst it might cause severe reactions or even fatalities.

    Even if that were only a small issue, it could completely undermine trust in a programme and products. It would trigger every anti vaccine conspiracy theorist and you’d cause major issues, even for safely tested products.

    This needs to be done quickly, but safely and through trusted, transparent processes, not ones driven by politics.

    It’s also more than just the end product. The entire production and supply chain for products like these is regulated at every step. The pipe work, vessels, valves, pumps, how staff are trained, how viles are filled, how plant control system software is designed, validated and maintained - every little detail of a whole system is regulated to a known and transparent set of norms and standards.

    If you want to read a critique of the Russian approach there are plenty and they not political or unbalanced. They’re concerned.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02386-2


  • #1118
    dominatinMC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    scamalert wrote: »
    Irony in all of this is that any drug in past decades would require around 10 years approval,testing before it would be released to masses, never-mind mind the vaccine, if we count that its been about 6-8 months at best no one should be in position to release one for another decade if done right.


    as if some think that trail stage 3 is injecting few thousand people and seeing if they are ok within weeks or month is fine, the russian vaccine or whoever pumps out another should be fine as any.


    as truth be told i dont imagine many will opt for it even if they say so, as if done correctly we should see one maybe in 2030 when this thing will be history.
    This old chestnut again! Christ almighty, maybe read up and actually educate yourself on the vaccine process before spouting this rubbish.

    Given the unprecedented circumstances, the production process is different to the conventional one. They are running stages/phases in parallel, as opposed to sequentially. This is to speed up the process, not cut corners. One of the main reasons that this doesn't normally happen is that money will be "wasted" when it transpires that a certain vaccine doesn't work. In this instance, all the manufacturing will have been in vain. However, for the vaccine(s) that is successful, it will already be in mass production when it is proven to be so, thereby reducing all that lead time.


  • #1119
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    One more vaccine candidate for the armory.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.11.245704v1.full.pdf+html

    It's from Taiwan it would appear and is a subunit prime-boost design. The adjuvant is quite interesting as well, seems to get excellent responses going with very little antigen (nAB titers are excellent and Th1 bias). As a sub-unit, there are no CD8+ T cell triggered. Animal challenge wasn't done for this one but neutralization assays were excellent, they even were saturating their ID50 set.


  • #1120
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭stevek93


    Will Ireland start vaccine trials? Or the current trials will they come over here?


  • #1121
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,708 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    stevek93 wrote: »
    Will Ireland start vaccine trials? Or the current trials will they come over here?

    I don't think we have enough cases for phase 3 trails.


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  • #1122
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    https://twitter.com/aslavitt/status/1294654256763609090?s=21


  • #1123
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,149 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Obviously Trump has pulled a few strings


  • #1124
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Obviously Trump has pulled a few strings

    He certainly has been making sure a vaccine is found as quickly as possible.


  • #1125
    Marhay70
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Danzy wrote: »
    He certainly has been making sure a vaccine is found as quickly as possible.

    But sure the virus is largely harmless and will burn itself out in no time. That's what Trump said in April, (and several times since) you don't think he could have been wrong, do you? Surely not.


  • #1126
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    But sure the virus is largely harmless

    He was right on that

    Surely not?


  • #1127
    Marhay70
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    He was right on that


    Over 150,000 of his fellow citizens might take issue with him on that. If they could!!


  • #1128
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    Over 150,000 of his fellow citizens might take issue with him on that. If they could!!

    Out of a country of 350 million, it is small, that's more down to luck than any thing Americans have done.


  • #1129
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    Over 150,000 of his fellow citizens might take issue with him on that. If they could!!

    Out of the 60,000,000 that have likely been infected

    Of which 40,000,000 won't even get sick

    It's harmless to most people

    He was right on that


  • #1130
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,708 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Out of the 60,000,000 that have likely been infected

    Of which 40,000,000 won't even get sick

    It's harmless to most people

    He was right on that

    Lessions and other lung issues isn't harmless.


  • #1131
    Marhay70
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    It is not harmless, evidence is beginning to emerge of serious long term effects on vital organs. This disease has only been known for c. 9 months, it hasn't been in existence for long enough to tell if it can be life changing or not, even in mild cases. To dismiss it as harmless on such little evidence is cavalier to say the least.


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  • #1132
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    irishgeo wrote: »
    Lessions and other lung issues isn't harmless.

    It doesn't underplay the seriousness of the disease to say that for the very most it is not harmful.

    The correct approach was taken here, it was correct that America opened up as well, as a prolonged shut down there would have destroyed the global economy for years to come.


  • #1133
    The_Brood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    For the poll: My one and only consideration would be how much freedom will you be allowed if you do take the vaccine. If you have like a vaccine passport and can live your life free of this lockdown, I'm first in line. If this is just "for your own good" but you still won't be exempt from travel restrictions, masks etc then no point.


  • #1134
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    irishgeo wrote: »
    Lessions and other lung issues isn't harmless.

    It's harmless to most of the population, thats a fact

    Most cases have no symptoms

    US has the same death rate as we do

    160,000 vs our 1,800

    They have nearly 100 times the population we do, it's a massive country

    You do the math


  • #1135
    stevek93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭stevek93


    irishgeo wrote: »
    I don't think we have enough cases for phase 3 trails.

    Hopefully we will never will


  • #1136
    Marhay70
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    It's harmless to most of the population, thats a fact

    Most cases have no symptoms

    US has the same death rate as we do

    160,000 vs our 1,800

    They have nearly 100 times the population we do, it's a massive country

    You do the math

    This is speculation on your part. As I said earlier, evidence of long term effects are only beginning to emerge as scientists and doctors learn more about the disease.
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I'll put my faith in those whose lives are dedicated to the study of such things, not in the ramblings of any layman, whether they be President of the U.S. or not.


  • #1137
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    This is speculation on your part. As I said earlier, evidence of long term effects are only beginning to emerge as scientists and doctors learn more about the disease.
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I'll put my faith in those whose lives are dedicated to the study of such things, not in the ramblings of any layman, whether they be President of the U.S. or not.

    It's not speculation.

    Math don't lie

    Your speculating on random medical articles


  • #1138
    deathbomber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 332 ✭✭deathbomber


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    It's not speculation.

    Math don't lie

    Your speculating on random medical articles

    The way we are going, we are in for a major crisis come October -December and the young will feel the brunt of it this time


  • #1139
    Marhay70
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    It's not speculation.

    Math don't lie

    Your speculating on random medical articles

    The dependability of math is conditional on the availability of all the figures.
    Those figures are being amended all the time as knowledge of the disease increases.
    Do the math again when you have all the figures, which won't be today or tomorrow.


  • #1140
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    The dependability of math is conditional on the availability of all the figures.
    Those figures are being amended all the time as knowledge of the disease increases.
    Do the math again when you have all the figures, which won't be today or tomorrow.

    Exactly we know nothing, none of us


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  • #1141
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,708 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    It's harmless to most of the population, thats a fact

    Most cases have no symptoms

    US has the same death rate as we do

    160,000 vs our 1,800

    They have nearly 100 times the population we do, it's a massive country

    You do the math

    Symptoms and complications after are 2 different things.


This discussion has been closed.
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