COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

The Unbearables

The_Brood wrote: »

The Russians have saved us. Yet important that the vaccine is safe of course, but this is not the first time the Russians have developed important vaccines.

The sickening thing will be if the EU, the US play political ****games and refuse jump head on into this vaccine. They will of course mask this under "we need to be sure" but it won't be that, it will be political reluctance to allow Russia to take massive credit after years of ****ting on them. Watch this space.

The spin and propaganda has already started on MSM. Sickening but expected.

XsApollo

Exactly nobody has any idea what the Russians approved bar the Russians.
And they really don’t need to tell anybody either.
I doubt any country in the world is gonna dish out a mass vaccination program without any sort of trials or information to say it is safe.

The Chinese haven’t done that yet and I would put them before Russia in attempting something like that.

They must of seen something to say it’s possible.

We will all know in a few months if it is what they say it is and they can publish all the data they have gathered which would be far more than any other COVID vaccine I would say and then let the rest of the world decide if it’s good enough.

The Unbearables

XsApollo wrote: »

Exactly nobody has any idea what the Russians approved bar the Russians.
And they really don’t need to tell anybody either.
I doubt any country in the world is gonna dish out a mass vaccination program without any sort of trials or information to say it is safe.

The Chinese haven’t done that yet and I would put them before Russia in attempting something like that.

They must of seen something to say it’s possible.

We will all know in a few months if it is what they say it is and they can publish all the data they have gathered which would be far more than any other COVID vaccine I would say and then let the rest of the world decide if it’s good enough.

Anyone who thinks the Russians are going to push out a vaccine on their population without knowing it's safe is insane. I'm guessing there will be a lot out there who will be hoping it's not safe because it's come from Russia

Akabusi

Waiting for Trump to buy it and have it out before the election, safe or not.

Thierry12

jv2000 wrote: »

Completely agree. We have no idea what the Russians actually approved and I would have doubts it would meet the requirements for conditional or accelerated mechanisms over the Moderna or Oxford/AZ vaccines (outside of Russia).

Any evidence to back up these racist allegations?

Stark

Thierry12 wrote: »

Any evidence to back up these racist allegations?

You're conflating criticism of a country's government with racism.

Hmmzis

https://meduza.io/feature/2020/07/23/sozdatel-rossiyskoy-vaktsiny-ot-koronavirusa-denis-logunov-dal-meduze-pervoe-bolshoe-intervyu-on-rasskazal-stoit-li-zhdat-privivok-k-sentyabryu-2020-goda

Use Google Translate, it's rather good.

It's the best source of information I've managed to find so far about the Russian vaccine efforts. It's an interview with their lead scientist.

hmmm

The Russian vaccine is clearly not appropriate to release into the general public, but it's their decision. I don't think it will have any impact on the timelines of Western (or even Chinese) vaccines, but I presume Putin will be twisting Trump's ear as a consequence.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/the-russian-vaccine

"This is just naked “vaccine nationalism”, which is really the last thing we need right now. I don’t want to see any country (including the US) beating its chest in this fashion and using the pandemic to declare the superiority of its system or its scientists. Coronavirus research needs to be as international as possible, with ideas, approaches, publications, and trials coming from around the world. This sort of stunt is taking us backwards – now people will be agitating for the “approved” Russian vaccine and wondering why the others aren’t ready yet, etc. It just creates confusion and discord – don’t we have enough of those already? Unless, of course, creating confusion and discord is the point. . ."

Atlantic Dawn

If the Russian vaccine works perfectly and they decide to share the formula for free with the world there will be a lot of unhappy pharmaceutical companies.

marno21

Comical debate on here. Western countries have been ahead of the Russians with their vaccine, they’re just not using the population at large as guinea pigs.

The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine and Moderna vaccines are both ahead of the Russian vaccine in the testing process, but they don’t feel the need for flag waving and aren’t being used for propaganda purposes.

And that’s before considering the considerable progress made by some of the Chinese vaccine teams.

jv2000

Thierry12 wrote: »

Any evidence to back up these racist allegations?

Nothing racist about not being able to make a judgement without any data whatsoever. I would recommend you look up the definition of racism.

hmmm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If the Russian vaccine works perfectly and they decide to share the formula for free with the world there will be a lot of unhappy pharmaceutical companies.

We have vaccines already. There's nothing stopping the "West" releasing a vaccine now if we wanted to experiment on our own people. Instead they are undergoing trials, and regulators will only sign them off when they think they are safe to do so.

That doesn't mean the Russian vaccine won't work. But you don't skip trials.

JDD

Weren't the Oxford scientists complaining a couple of weeks back that they had a couple of hacking attempts looking to steal their research?

Could this Russian vaccine be, in fact, the Oxford vaccine? I mean, there's no point in asking would Putin really do that, because of course he would, but would you really get away with it?

Cordell

They claim it's a different type, but they can claim anything and it will be difficult to challenge them or to do anything about it.

is_that_so

Thierry12 wrote: »

Any evidence to back up these racist allegations?

It's the crude evocation of Sputnik that shows what Putin is up to. They have not followed the proper protocols at all. For all we know it could be coloured water.
Now it may work and will be good but I can't see the line being very long in most parts of the world for it.

Thierry12

Hmmzis wrote: »

https://meduza.io/feature/2020/07/23/sozdatel-rossiyskoy-vaktsiny-ot-koronavirusa-denis-logunov-dal-meduze-pervoe-bolshoe-intervyu-on-rasskazal-stoit-li-zhdat-privivok-k-sentyabryu-2020-goda

Use Google Translate, it's rather good.

It's the best source of information I've managed to find so far about the Russian vaccine efforts. It's an interview with their lead scientist.

Read it a few day's ago

Far more open about the vaccine than Moderna or Oxford :pac:

Thierry12

hmmm wrote: »

We have vaccines already. There's nothing stopping the "West" releasing a vaccine now if we wanted to experiment on our own people. Instead they are undergoing trials, and regulators will only sign them off when they think they are safe to do so.

That doesn't mean the Russian vaccine won't work. But you don't skip trials.

They are not skipping trials

It's in phase 3

hmmm

JDD wrote: »

Could this Russian vaccine be, in fact, the Oxford vaccine? I mean, there's no point in asking would Putin really do that, because of course he would, but would you really get away with it?

From the description it's more similar to the Chinese (I think Cansino) and J&J vaccines.

This isn't a difficult thing to make vaccines for if you put enough effort into it. It will only be after the trials are complete that we'll know how safe and effective those vaccines are.

hmmm

Thierry12 wrote: »

They are not skipping trials

It's in phase 3

Well then the news reports were wrong. If it's a phase 3 trial, it won't be available to the general public before 2021.

Thierry12

is_that_so wrote: »

It's the crude evocation of Sputnik that shows what Putin is up to. They have not followed the proper protocols at all. For all we know it could be coloured water.
Now it may work and will be good but I can't see the line being very long in most parts of the world for it.

Honestly

Coloured water

The russians invented chemistry ffs

is_that_so

Thierry12 wrote: »

Honestly

Coloured water

The russians invented chemistry ffs

Well, you've anointed yourself an expert so why don't you just lay it out.

Thierry12

hmmm wrote: »

Well then the news reports were wrong. If it's a phase 3 trial, it won't be available to the general public before 2021.

They are, propagandaas usual

The vaccine and the placebo will be given to thousands of volunteers

Yes 2021 or maybe late 2020, who knows

ACitizenErased

New study into sereprevelance in New York City has come back at 40%.

Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is a strain of coronavirus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) and has been declared a global pandemic by the World Health Organization. Total cases of SARS-CoV-2 worldwide exceed 10.2 million, with over 503,000 deaths recorded. Little is known about the body's immune response to SARS-CoV-2 infection. In this paper, we describe SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibody responses in 28,523 patients from the New York City metropolitan area and report a SARS-CoV-2 IgG positivity rate of 44%, indicating the widespread nature of the pandemic in the city and state of New York. Additionally, for a subset of patients, we report on the correlation between SARS-CoV-2 patient symptom severity and level of SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibody found in the patient sample.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0732889320305058?via%3Dihub

is_that_so

ACitizenErased wrote: »

New study into sereprevelance in New York City has come back at 40%.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0732889320305058?via%3Dihub

They were at 25% in an earlier CDC report.

ACitizenErased

is_that_so wrote: »

They were at 25% in an earlier CDC report.

It's likely so that they're somewhere between 25-40%

darjeeling

ACitizenErased wrote: »

New study into sereprevelance in New York City has come back at 40%.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0732889320305058?via%3Dihub

A news report on a WHO/Johns Hopkins Uni serology survey of 9,500 people across Afghanistan shows 32% seroprevalence across the country and 53% in the capital, Kabul.

https://www.voanews.com/south-central-asia/10-million-afghans-likely-infected-and-recovered-covid-19-survey

Looking at the epidemic curve, cases began appearing in late March, peaked in early June, and are now around 7% of the peak numbers. That looks like the result of approaching herd immunity to me.

hmmm

ACitizenErased wrote: »

New study into sereprevelance in New York City has come back at 40%.

Interesting.

What I find a bit odd is that it hasn't gained much attention. I wonder if it is anything to do with the sampling method - doesn't look all that random to me (there have been concerns about previous studies where patients who were perhaps most interested to find out if they had Covid were more likely to come forward for testing).

"it is one of the first to provide a snapshot of SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibody responses in a region of the country that was hardest hit by the virus, New York City, through an analysis of over 28,000 patients presenting to primary care providers for SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibody testing."

There was an arguably more random sample taken in a seperate study (top class scientists but not peer reviewed) which tested blood donations. That showed about 19.3% in New York in late April
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.28.20142190v1

Considering how well NY did in controlling their virus spread, I'm a bit dubious - will be interesting to see if any good scientists discuss it and are comfortable with the findings.

What Username Guidelines

hmmm wrote: »

Interesting.

What I find a bit odd is that it hasn't gained much attention. I wonder if it is anything to do with the sampling method - doesn't look all that random to me (there have been concerns about previous studies where patients who were perhaps most interested to find out if they had Covid were more likely to come forward for testing).

"it is one of the first to provide a snapshot of SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibody responses in a region of the country that was hardest hit by the virus, New York City, through an analysis of over 28,000 patients presenting to primary care providers for SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibody testing."

There was an arguably more random sample taken in a seperate study (top class scientists but not peer reviewed) which tested blood donations. That showed about 19.3% in New York in late April
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.28.20142190v1

Considering how well NY did in controlling their virus spread, I'm a bit dubious - will be interesting to see if any good scientists discuss it and are comfortable with the findings.

They did one study where they set up on street corners and grabbed anyone willing, but then again, these are people who are out and about, so not a perfect representation.

Blood donors is a good one, although donors are often societally minded and may act differently to others.

Very difficult to get a truly random sample grouping.

DaSilva

Whether you think Putin is a good guy or a bad guy I don't care and won't argue, but I think it would be incredibly foolish to think he is stupid.

So why would he offer his people an unproven vaccine, why not wait for phase 3 trials?
*tin foil hat on*
Because they already know the efficacy of their vaccine, they already performed the "unethical" challenge experiments.
It's the only answer I can think of that makes sense that isn't just a total bluff, and I don't see him just bluffing a vaccine...

Thierry12

DaSilva wrote: »

Whether you think Putin is a good guy or a bad guy I don't care and won't argue, but I think it would be incredibly foolish to think he is stupid.

So why would he offer his people an unproven vaccine, why not wait for phase 3 trials?
*tin foil hat on*
Because they already know the efficacy of their vaccine, they already performed the "unethical" challenge experiments.
It's the only answer I can think of that makes sense that isn't just a total bluff, and I don't see him just bluffing a vaccine...

Putin let his child take the vaccine, good enough for me :pac: