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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #1652
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    khalessi wrote: »
    Yep visors need to be worn with a mask otherwise they are not great. My school providing visors for teachers but I have some already and will be weaing a mask too. I dont think it is a tick box exercise, I just think they dont know any better.

    https://www.thelocal.ch/20200715/only-those-with-plastic-visors-were-infected-swiss-government-warns-against-face-shields

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-swiss-visor/swiss-doctor-pans-plastic-visors-after-covid-19-hits-restaurant-workers-idUSKCN24F239

    Agreed. Same issue in mine. Visors for all. Masks with them optional. Surprised when I brought up that they are very ineffective alone


  • #1653
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    helpful wrote: »
    I’ve seen a lot of talk of visors online recently. A lot of those teacher Instagram pages saying they are wearing them in primary school (the teacher is anyway no mention of the children doing so). I thought visors were useless or close enough to useless?
    Is the wearing of the visor another tick the box and make it look like we’re doing something or are they actually safe enough?

    I think in some schools it is a tick the box exercise, in others it isn't due to a lack of informing the selves about the options.

    They are pretty much useless on their own but better than nothing, I suppose 🙄.


  • #1654
    Sunday Sunday
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Sunday Sunday


    Just had a look at the guidelines and it says:

    "it is now recommended that teachers and secondary school students wear face coverings, similar to those worn in shops or on public transport, when a physical distance of 2 metres cannot be maintained".

    So I assume visors are OK given they've been approved as acceptable for public transport too.


  • #1655
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Sunday Sunday wrote: »
    Just had a look at the guidelines and it says:

    "it is now recommended that teachers and secondary school students wear face coverings, similar to those worn in shops or on public transport, when a physical distance of 2 metres cannot be maintained".

    So I assume visors are OK given they've been approved as acceptable for public transport too.

    Masks are being added as uniform requirements in some schools


  • #1656
    Sunday Sunday
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Sunday Sunday


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    Masks are being added as uniform requirements in some schools

    Hoping our school is big enough to cope and they aren't needed much (it's only recommended where social distancing can't be adhered to).

    Still waiting to hear on any of the arrangements.

    If there's an issue I'll need to get a GP letter but that won't be a problem.


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  • #1657
    combat14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭combat14


    will schools provide visors / masks for students and their employees


  • #1658
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Let's keep in mind this is a life threatening virus.. kids with special needs should be protected but if a principal has not the staff to facilitate social distancing - should he or she be allowed to use teachers allocated in the special needs area ?.
    Obviously the answer is to provide enough staff but I'm not terribly optimistic with an allocation of basically one extra teacher per school that it won't be used.
    It's a moral dilemma . But you'd be naive if you don't think resource allocation doesn't kill people every year in the HSE. Unfortunately these dilemmas are now arriving at school doors.

    How many kids in Ireland have died from this virus?


  • #1659
    Inquitus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    How many kids in Ireland have died from this virus?

    An equally valid question would be how many people caught it from a kid and ended up in hospital.


  • #1660
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    How many kids in Ireland have died from this virus?

    Another equally valid question would be how many children have caught it and how many ended up in ICU?


  • #1661
    isup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭isup


    Inquitus wrote: »
    An equally valid question would be how many people caught it from a kid and ended up in hospital.

    If they can spread it as much as adults I would say alot . And especially with them not distancing and being in enclosed spaces for long periods . We will see in time. I would hope it's bit the case .
    It will take parents/grandparents getting the virus from kids for them to take schools opening more seriously


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  • #1662
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    How many kids in Ireland have died from this virus?

    A child catches the virus in school. No big deal according to you.
    The child infects their granny who is minding them. Granny has an underlying condition and dies a long slow death. The child’s life is changed forever, as is granny’s.
    Hypothetical situation but in all likelihood one that will occur with the reopening of schools.
    How many grannies lives is a price you are willing to pay?


  • #1663
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,539 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Fair play to O'Riordan for pointing out the usual bullshít.

    'It is a deliberate strategy': Labour party accuses Norma Foley of avoiding scrutiny


  • #1664
    gabeeg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭gabeeg


    Five kids had died from covid in the UK by mid July.

    It's very rare, statistically irrelevant I guess, but can happen


  • #1665
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    A child catches the virus in school. No big deal according to you.
    The child infects their granny who is minding them. Granny has an underlying condition and dies a long slow death. The child’s life is changed forever, as is granny’s.
    Hypothetical situation but in all likelihood one that will occur with the reopening of schools.
    How many grannies lives is a price you are willing to pay?

    This is really important. We need to get the older people properly cocooning again cause right now many are not. I would hope the HSE put out strong messaging on this when schools go back or we're going to learn another harsh lesson like the nursing homes a few months ago.


  • #1666
    Dayo93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭Dayo93


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    A child catches the virus in school. No big deal according to you.
    The child infects their granny who is minding them. Granny has an underlying condition and dies a long slow death. The child’s life is changed forever, as is granny’s.
    Hypothetical situation but in all likelihood one that will occur with the reopening of schools.
    How many grannies lives is a price you are willing to pay?

    Thats why people have to make alternative arrangements for child care and not put thier loved ones at risk, We are in this position and will now have considerable costs as we will not be letting our parents mind the kids after school even though they want too.


  • #1667
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Dayo93 wrote: »
    Thats why people have to make alternative arrangements for child care and not put thier loved ones at risk, We are in this position and will now have considerable costs as we will not be letting our parents mind the kids after school even though they want too.

    Not everyone is as responsible as you or in the position to make alternative arrangements.


  • #1668
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    froog wrote: »
    This is really important. We need to get the older people properly cocooning again cause right now many are not. I would hope the HSE put out strong messaging on this when schools go back or we're going to learn another harsh lesson like the nursing homes a few months ago.

    Many older people do not want to cocoon again .It took a huge tole on their mental health and on their physical health .I saw an interview with an ortho surgeon who said she saw a very large increase in fractures after fall in the time after lockdown .She put it down to the elderly not excercising and getting stiff joints and causing falls and fractures .
    We are bordering the over 70 age group as are many of our family and friends and they are really not willing to cocoon again and risk their mental health . The elderly are not affected in big numbers at the moment because they are very careful and being sensible and wearing masks etc .In my opinion cocooning is out of the question for many again .


  • #1669
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    How many kids in Ireland have died from this virus?

    Your posts are a bit of a virus that infect many threads.


  • #1670
    morebabies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 539 ✭✭✭morebabies


    My mother in law, (asthmatic and over 70), yesterday said she would love to do the school runs in September. I explained the kids will be mixing with 1100 + other children and therefore a risk to her, but she was saying she'd be fine, she'd wear a mask. This is because she has bought into the government's mantra on RTE that we have to have a full return to schools at all costs... She couldn't grasp that the cost might be her own life.


  • #1671
    Snugglebunnies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 382 ✭✭Snugglebunnies


    Dayo93 wrote: »
    Thats why people have to make alternative arrangements for child care and not put thier loved ones at risk, We are in this position and will now have considerable costs as we will not be letting our parents mind the kids after school even though they want too.

    Not everyone has the means for other childcare options. I'm a single parent so if my mother can't mind my daughter after school, I can't work which is a disaster in a one parent family.

    Although my parents are in their early sixties, my father is undergoing cancer treatment and therefore is seriously at risk. My mother and I are now discussing homeschooling my daughter between us. This isn't ideal but right now it looks like the only option to keep everyone safe.


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  • #1672
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭amacca


    morebabies wrote: »
    My mother in law, (asthmatic and over 70), yesterday said she would love to do the school runs in September. I explained the kids will be mixing with 1100 + other children and therefore a risk to her, but she was saying she'd be fine, she'd wear a mask. This is because she has bought into the government's mantra on RTE that we have to have a full return to schools at all costs... She couldn't grasp that the cost might be her own life.

    Wow....so she believed the govt.....govts have such a good track record of accurately telling individuals what is correct for them..........the news from italy at the start of this is completely forgotten eh


  • #1673
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Blondini wrote: »
    Your posts are a bit of a virus that infect many threads.

    Uhhh good one!!


  • #1674
    gabeeg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭gabeeg


    Snugglebunnies wrote: »
    Not everyone has the means for other childcare options. I'm a single parent so if my mother can't mind my daughter after school, I can't work which is a disaster in a one parent family.

    Although my parents are in their early sixties, my father is undergoing cancer treatment and therefore is seriously at risk. My mother and I are now discussing homeschooling my daughter between us. This isn't ideal but right now it looks like the only option to keep everyone safe.

    That is a really tough situation.

    How old is your daughter?


  • #1675
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    A child catches the virus in school. No big deal according to you.
    The child infects their granny who is minding them. Granny has an underlying condition and dies a long slow death. The child’s life is changed forever, as is granny’s.
    Hypothetical situation but in all likelihood one that will occur with the reopening of schools.
    How many grannies lives is a price you are willing to pay?

    Don't send those kids into school if there is a worry.

    We have to live with this virus.

    Cocoon and protect the vulnerable if they want.

    Like everything in life, it has to continue.


  • #1676
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    Boggles wrote: »
    Fair play to O'Riordan for pointing out the usual bullshít.

    'It is a deliberate strategy': Labour party accuses Norma Foley of avoiding scrutiny

    He's playing a blinder around this. His actual knowledge of schools is at the fore of all this criticism! How the party choose AK over him I'll never know but it says something very fundamental about the party

    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Many older people do not want to cocoon again .It took a huge tole on their mental health and on their physical health .I saw an interview with an ortho surgeon who said she saw a very large increase in fractures after fall in the time after lockdown .She put it down to the elderly not excercising and getting stiff joints and causing falls and fractures .
    We are bordering the over 70 age group as are many of our family and friends and they are really not willing to cocoon again and risk their mental health . The elderly are not affected in big numbers at the moment because they are very careful and being sensible and wearing masks etc .In my opinion cocooning is out of the question for many again .

    I agree re mental health but there is an issue with viral load in the elderly, it's much higher and that makes an infected 80year old more of a risk to the general public that an infected 30 year old, all things being equal. I would hope that most older people would be cautious and this would mitigate that but it's something that has to be considered from a public health point of view.


  • #1677
    gabeeg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭gabeeg


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Don't send those kids into school if there is a worry.

    We have to live with this virus.

    Cocoon and protect the vulnerable if they want.

    Like everything in life, it has to continue.

    Life sometimes doesn't continue, and that's the fact you're struggling to wrap your head around.


  • #1678
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    gabeeg wrote: »
    Life sometimes doesn't continue, and that's the fact you're struggling to wrap your head around.

    Seriously?

    The flu killed 50,000 people in the UK in 2018.

    Life very much continued.

    Absolute fear and hysteria.


  • #1679
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    am_zarathustra wrote: »
    He's playing a blinder around this. His actual knowledge of schools is at the fore of all this criticism! How the party choose AK over him I'll never know but it says something very fundamental about the party




    I agree re mental health but there is an issue with viral load in the elderly, it's much higher and that makes an infected 80year old more of a risk to the general public that an infected 30 year old, all things being equal. I would hope that most older people would be cautious and this would mitigate that but it's something that has to be considered from a public health point of view.

    Really ? I hadnt heard that , I am not disputing it but just surprised .I will go look it up now


    Ps . I had a bit of a search and it is difficult to find two papers in agreence about the viral load .Though this research is from a German Hospital

    All nine patients showed a high rate of viral replication and shedding in their throat during their first week of infection. The virus does not need to travel to the lungs to replicate, and is abundant in the throat, making it easy to pass on. “It can be spread easily by sneezing or coughing,” said Prof Wendtner.

    His hospital now has 190 Covid-19 patients and “there is no difference between the young and elderly” in viral load. There are three times more Covid-19 viruses on patient swabs compared to viruses such as influenza or RSV


  • #1680
    Snugglebunnies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 382 ✭✭Snugglebunnies


    gabeeg wrote: »
    That is a really tough situation.

    How old is your daughter?

    She's 10. Apparently the risk increases from around that age. On the plus side, 2 well educated adults should be able to do a relatively good job with a 4th class student with some good resources and a bit of organisation.


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  • #1681
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Really ? I hadnt heard that , I am not disputing it but just surprised .I will go look it up now

    This was the first paper indicating it but there have been a few backing it up at this stage

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30196-1/fulltext

    At the moment the focus is on infectivity in young people to try and figure out how to get schools back to protect economies but the findings around older people are replicatable.

    The flu weirdly has lower viral load in older people, they rarely spread it quickly and it's not often assymptomatic. It kind of explains the nursing home issue, normal flu protocol wasn't enough as there was so much shedding and probably a nice but airborn


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