How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Beanybabog · 13-08-2020 11:38AM

There’s a case in UCD creche and they just closed the affected pod. Article in the times quotes a parent who is critical of the HSE- creche contacted them immediately, took three more days for HSE to contact parents and no testing arranged

amen · 13-08-2020 11:39AM

If a school closes what allowances will be made for those in exam years ?

Bananaleaf · 13-08-2020 11:52AM

It's sad to think how different the buildings will be. No posters or artwork on the walls, no group work or socialisation. Faceless teachers and faceless students. In particular, incoming infants or first years won't know what their teachers ever looked like and vice versa. Everyone on their last nerve if someone coughs or clears their throat.

I've to go into school tomorrow and remove all of my boxes of games, props and costumes and put them into long term storage. They won't be used. It will be all individual work from the book.

Our school is huge. Huge. It is a campus. Such an overwhelming environment for an incoming first year under the best of circumstances. But last year if they were very anxious you could sit them down and have a chat, accompany them to their locker and help them organise it a bit. Pair or group them up with some children who might have similar interests and get them into a circle of friends, give them a welcoming smile to ease their anxiety as they enter the room.

The closer it comes to opening time, the les convinced I am that we are doing the right thing.

Oranage2 · 13-08-2020 12:01PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And this is why they will open, even if it is unsafe to do so. Because there will be loads of people like JDD who will be raging if they don't after all the money they've paid. And rightly so.

They'll still use the same books so not a waste, parents could let the kids wear the uniforms during the class hours to really focus them if they've to learn remotely

Bananaleaf · 13-08-2020 12:05PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

They'll still use the same books so not a waste, parents could let the kids wear the uniforms during the class hours to really focus them if they've to learn remotely

That's true, but I was also thinking of the money the govt has spent on trying to get schools ready. 300million or thereabouts I think. If the schools don't end up going back, yet all this money was invested in them, people will be very angry and I can understand that.

Oranage2 · 13-08-2020 12:10PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

That's true, but I was also thinking of the money the govt has spent on trying to get schools ready. 300million or thereabouts I think. If the schools don't end up going back, yet all this money was invested in them, people will be very angry and I can understand that.

Yeah you're right there, they'll definitely open and it'll be a waiting game to see if there are many other transmissions

JDD · 13-08-2020 12:11PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And this is why they will open, even if it is unsafe to do so. Because there will be loads of people like JDD who will be raging if they don't after all the money they've paid. And rightly so.

I don't mean to be heartless, I do understand teachers concerns and I do think it is inevitable that we will have a series of closures of schools in different areas over the next six months, until we (hopefully) get a vaccine.

As far as I can see, it's basically business as usual for schools with classes being kept separate during school hours. I don't see it as any massive change. Handwashing is only effective when the risk is catching it from surfaces, which I think is actually one of the lesser reasons for infections. I seem to remember Dr Glynn saying the most common reason was airborne person to person infection.

In some ways, I wonder does that protect primary teachers somewhat. If the consensus is that the virus is contained in big droplets, that drop to the floor straight away, and aerosol droplets, that hover at the level you breathe them out at for several minutes, the fact that the kids are all at least a foot below the level you are breathing at in the classroom should afford some protection? Or am I really clutching at straws here? I know teachers walk around a classroom and bend down to review kids work, and really I think kids should wear visors for at least part of the day. The visors would at least direct any virus breathed out downwards, rather than upwards towards the teacher.

Bananaleaf · 13-08-2020 12:20PM

JDD wrote: »

I don't mean to be heartless, I do understand teachers concerns and I do think it is inevitable that we will have a series of closures of schools in different areas over the next six months, until we (hopefully) get a vaccine.

As far as I can see, it's basically business as usual for schools with classes being kept separate during school hours. I don't see it as any massive change. Handwashing is only effective when the risk is catching it from surfaces, which I think is actually one of the lesser reasons for infections. I seem to remember Dr Glynn saying the most common reason was airborne person to person infection.

In some ways, I wonder does that protect primary teachers somewhat. If the consensus is that the virus is contained in big droplets, that drop to the floor straight away, and aerosol droplets, that hover at the level you breathe them out at for several minutes, the fact that the kids are all at least a foot below the level you are breathing at in the classroom should afford some protection? Or am I really clutching at straws here? I know teachers walk around a classroom and bend down to review kids work, and really I think kids should wear visors for at least part of the day. The visors would at least direct any virus breathed out downwards, rather than upwards towards the teacher.

No, I know you are not being heartless. You are saying what a lot of parents are thinking in fairness. And I totally understand that.

I don't intend on being within 2m of a student to be honest. I know this is going to be an issue for students who arent confident enough to ask questions out loud.

I will adapt my teaching to hopefully take this into account with more examples etc and I will make myself available to them online in the evenings if they still have questions but I won't be going near their desks. Like yourself, not trying to be heartless.

Lucky for me I get to make that choice really when you think about it. The students on the other hand are the ones stuck within less than a metre of one another in the same room for the day

Murple · 13-08-2020 12:27PM

average_runner wrote: »

For a teacher in a no win situation. I understand the working from home part but its not practical unless kids are of a certain age and all have the equipment.

If you are a primary teacher, do you have a teaching helper in the class?
Could you do remote to the class on big screen and the helper helps the class in the room?

There’s no such thing as a teaching helper in Irish primary schools. Some children may have access to an SNA but that person is unlikely to be with the child all day.

gabeeg · 13-08-2020 12:27PM

JDD wrote: »

In some ways, I wonder does that protect primary teachers somewhat. If the consensus is that the virus is contained in big droplets, that drop to the floor straight away, and aerosol droplets, that hover at the level you breathe them out at for several minutes, the fact that the kids are all at least a foot below the level you are breathing at in the classroom should afford some protection? Or am I really clutching at straws here? I know teachers walk around a classroom and bend down to review kids work, and really I think kids should wear visors for at least part of the day. The visors would at least direct any virus breathed out downwards, rather than upwards towards the teacher.

There's a study doing the rounds that states that the taller you are the more susceptible you are to catching covid, mostly likely due to aerosol transmission.

It's not peer reviewed yet though so who knows.

Murple · 13-08-2020 12:38PM

morebabies wrote: »

What do you guys think will most likely happen, as in, unless I've misunderstood the virus, once 1 million children start mixing, what may begin as sporadic reports of cases here and there in schools will surely become a nationwide explosion of cases... ?

Will the Department make a blanket decision to close all schools do you think, or will they continue to try and put out fires locally because they don't want to go back on their mantra of a full reopening?

Leo Varadkar made comments to the effect that he could guarantee clusters in schools in a few weeks time and that if the virus was to increase generally in the country, that closing schools again would be down the list of measures they would take. He regards schools as ‘low risk’ environments.
I think it was Dr Ronan Glynn who said that it’s likely just a class would be closed if there was a case as the class would be the only ones regarded as close contacts.
I really don’t think there is an understanding of how things travel through a school. You can nearly always link outbreaks of headlice, tummy bugs etc in different classes to a set of siblings, a play date or an afterschool club.

Oranage2 · 13-08-2020 12:44PM

Kids might be low risk, but then the parents must isolate and it's also possible a parent spreading it around their work place. Could be carnage

Murple · 13-08-2020 01:14PM

Children seem to be low risk for getting serious illness but that’s a very different thing to schools being a ‘low risk’ environment. A low risk environment is a place where there are few commonly touched surfaces/objects, plenty of space and ventilation, low concentration of people, ability of all those present to follow recommended hygiene and distancing measures, people not remaining in the one room for extended amounts of time...any of this sound like a classroom or school?

youandme13 · 13-08-2020 01:18PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Kids might be low risk, but then the parents must isolate and it's also possible a parent spreading it around their work place. Could be carnage

Exactly. Take my sons class for example there are 35 in his class plus teacher and two snas. If there was a case, each of those children have families, a lot of parents (one or both) work so they would be spreading it in work before knowing and there extended families. Also siblings in other classes, afterschool Creche etc. That's a lot of people infected if it happened from one class!!

The Unbearables · 13-08-2020 01:23PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

It's sad to think how different the buildings will be. No posters or artwork on the walls, no group work or socialisation. Faceless teachers and faceless students. In particular, incoming infants or first years won't know what their teachers ever looked like and vice versa. Everyone on their last nerve if someone coughs or clears their throat.

I've to go into school tomorrow and remove all of my boxes of games, props and costumes and put them into long term storage. They won't be used. It will be all individual work from the book.

Our school is huge. Huge. It is a campus. Such an overwhelming environment for an incoming first year under the best of circumstances. But last year if they were very anxious you could sit them down and have a chat, accompany them to their locker and help them organise it a bit. Pair or group them up with some children who might have similar interests and get them into a circle of friends, give them a welcoming smile to ease their anxiety as they enter the room.

The closer it comes to opening time, the les convinced I am that we are doing the right thing.

It's incredibly risky and highly likely to have very serious implications for our society. It's also very poorly thought out given our high class sizes and the state of a lot of our schools in general.

average_runner · 13-08-2020 01:58PM

Murple wrote: »

There’s no such thing as a teaching helper in Irish primary schools. Some children may have access to an SNA but that person is unlikely to be with the child all day.

Well our school has the main teacher and then a person in the class to help out. This was from entry to first class.

Not sure about second class up.

The primary school is now going with a no homework policy which is the right way to do things. Also keeping their full time autism class for the kids that need it.

Never understood Secondary schools, daily homework would take 2 hours at least and then expected you to study !!

Mrsmum · 13-08-2020 02:04PM

Sorry if this has been asked before but what is the story about lockers ?

khalessi · 13-08-2020 02:10PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Sorry if this has been asked before but what is the story about lockers ?

In some school lockers not being given out except for 6th years, best to check with your school.

mirrorwall14 · 13-08-2020 02:10PM

Last year the vomiting bug ran through our school. At one point we had nigh on 300 out of 730 students out sick. I was missing half my class on a rotating basis for over a week. I’m Not sure they get second level.

With the best will in the world there are so so many contacts. Even a first year student with a base class Plus two options. One student in the class gets it. He has about 15 teachers, 30 specific classmates, up to 48 other close contacts in his two options and and another up to 20 odd in science. That’s the guts of 100 close contacts for one student. And it’s waaaay worse if you consider school buses. And that’s first year.

If it’s sixth year it’s a little better teacher wise 9-10 teachers but way worse student wise because the whole 150 strong year group are mixing every forty minutes

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 13-08-2020 02:11PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Sorry if this has been asked before but what is the story about lockers ?

Will vary from school to school. Some have gotten rid of them, our place is keeping them

average_runner · 13-08-2020 02:11PM

How much of secondary school is now digital ? Is this now the time to move to modern technology?

Mrsmum · 13-08-2020 02:15PM

Anyone know is it more likely there will be a lot more double classes or would that have any effect ?

lulublue22 · 13-08-2020 02:20PM

average_runner wrote: »

Well our school has the main teacher and then a person in the class to help out. This was from entry to first class.

Not sure about second class up !!

There is no helper to help out in the Irish Education system. There are SNA’s sanctioned to provide assistance to a child with additional needs.

abacus120 · 13-08-2020 02:22PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Sorry if this has been asked before but what is the story about lockers ?

In my daughters school lockers for 6th year only

khalessi · 13-08-2020 02:24PM

average_runner wrote: »

Well our school has the main teacher and then a person in the class to help out. This was from entry to first class.

In my school when we go back, I will spend time with Junior Infants to help them settle in and also to spot if any children may need further investigation re language, mobility etc. that we were not aware of on enrollment. This will go on for a few weeks until the class teacher is happy they are settled in. Then the learning support for that year go in to help with Maths or English regularly. Some of the classes may also have an SNA if a child in the class has a diagnosis and needs assistance.

Hopefully I will get to carry out my role this year but I feel that there could be a lot of covering in class if teachers are sick etc.

Murple · 13-08-2020 02:26PM

average_runner wrote: »

Well our school has the main teacher and then a person in the class to help out. This was from entry to first class.

Not sure about second class up.

The primary school is now going with a no homework policy which is the right way to do things. Also keeping their full time autism class for the kids that need it.

Never understood Secondary schools, daily homework would take 2 hours at least and then expected you to study !!

A person helping full time? As in an employee or a volunteer? SET sometimes will be in a class to help with children with specific needs or to implement programmes but it’s only for a portion of the day. There wouldn’t be one for each class by any means.
UK schools have teaching assistants who have specific skills training but their role would be different to our SNA.

Murple · 13-08-2020 02:29PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Anyone know is it more likely there will be a lot more double classes or would that have any effect ?

I’ve heard of some schools doing this to reduce movement around the school. Having to move every 40 minutes and clean the desks will be a drain on class time, even if it’s just the teacher moving.

average_runner · 13-08-2020 03:02PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

There is no helper to help out in the Irish Education system. There are SNA’s sanctioned to provide assistance to a child with additional needs.

Well our school had extra help in the classes and also then have a separate autism class for any extra help

wirelessdude01 · 13-08-2020 03:07PM

average_runner wrote: »

Well our school had extra help in the classes and also then have a separate autism class for any extra help

Every class had extra help? Are you sure you just aren't confused with an SNA?

khalessi · 13-08-2020 03:15PM

average_runner wrote: »

Well our school had extra help in the classes and also then have a separate autism class for any extra help

Not every child who has a diagnosis and an SNA has autism.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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