Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Same kind of one that would allegedly do it in Dublin and the market town of Monaghan?

Armies...spreading terror to achieve the aims of their masters since time began mark.

The UVF are also an 'army'?
Hillarious!

Who were the masters of the PIRA Francie? The People of NI?

markodaly wrote: »

Niall O'Dowd has long and strong links going back to SF for years.

He was an intermediary between the US government and Gerry Adams for ages, which included getting him a Visa.

So strong were his links to SF, Niall O'Dowd approached SF with a view of running for President in 2011 with the support of Adams and SF!!

So, he is far from a 'neutral' party in this, in fact he comes across as a bit of a lacky.

Neil O'Dowd is the voice of Irish America. If he is anyone's lacky, its their one.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/irish-america-is-hostile-to-the-exclusion-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-from-government-1.4191688

In early June 2011, O'Dowd announced he was considering becoming a candidate in the 2011 Irish Presidential election, calling himself "an Irish Diaspora voice."[14] According to Walter Ellis, writing in the Irish Times, O'Dowd's goal was

...to call on the power of the Irish diaspora and bring it to bear on the country’s crippled economy. He would rally the world’s wealthiest Irish people and encourage them to invest in Ireland, North and South.[15]

O'Dowd approached Sinn Féin and possibly other Irish parties seeking support. Sinn Féin, though then party president Gerry Adams, stated in mid-June that they had been "lobbied by all the independent candidates" including O'Dowd.[16]

By 27 June, The Irish Echo declared the "Irish presidential field [is] starting to look crowded", citing a comment from O'Dowd saying "The reality is you have to fish where the fish are and the only votes for me are with Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin."[17]

On the same day, Gerry Adams announced Sinn Féin would "will make no decision on whether to back Irish-American publisher Niall O’Dowd or any other independent candidate for the presidency until it decides next month whether to run its own candidate."[16]

On 30 June, O'Dowd stated he would not be running for the office. O'Dowd stated his reasons involved "The logistical challenges of running for an office as an independent against established political parties is incredible."[18][19]

Walter Ellis, writing in The Irish Times remarked that, despite many impressive qualifications, "O'Dowd would not get my vote," calling him "too much of an Irish-American for the Áras."[15]

So in your view, any Independent who approached Sinn Fein for support is a SF lacky?

markodaly wrote: »

The UVF are also an 'army'?
Hillarious!

Who were the masters of the PIRA Francie? The People of NI?

No, I don't think the UVF ever called themselves an army. Maybe they did.

Why do people get so upset at the use of a fairly simple word 'army'?

The IRA were a fairly well drilled (read independent opinion on this) and regimented organisation with a clearly defned ranking system of officers.
Their 'masters' being the highest ranking officers.

It's pretty simple stuff.

Superfoods wrote: »

I never said I couldn't name any communities.

...and you didn't name any.

Yip, I noticed the SF sneaky regard for commy China and the suppressant of democracy. The irony is there not the Sf and its cohorts will ever admit to it.
I bet Sf would do the same in Ireland if they had half the chance.

nigeldaniel wrote: »

Yip, I noticed the SF sneaky regard for commy China and the suppressant of democracy. The irony is there not the Sf and its cohorts will ever admit to it.
I bet Sf would do the same in Ireland if they had half the chance.

Come on man...you know the drill...show us what you have 'noticed'.

Please don't do a 'I know of many communities living in fear of IRA overlord's' and when asked to name more than one or two run off and try to change the subject'.

If YOU noticed it, you should be able to link to this 'sneaky regard'.

Chris McManus has explained why he abstained, it has to do with not wanting to align with former colonial powers taking the high moral ground.
Wouldn't make me abstain but it is a valid reason that is not an endorsement of China.

I used to go up the North a bit during the Troubles to Belfast and walking in the Mourne Mountains. We were all scared ****less going through those BA checkpoints. One of the most terrifying things happened on the road out to Newcastle when in the middle of no where we were stopped by the UDR. I thought we were gonners, but they were ok.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, why can you not deal with what was actually said?

I grew up in fairly close contact to the Irish army and the British army...who had masters.
They didn't have 'overlords' either.





So communities all over northern Ireland and along the border (including mine apparently) lived in fear of IRA overlord's but you cannot name any?

Speaks for itself as a lazy trope.

I remember talking to an American tourist here in my town (she was a student journalist believe it or not) she nearly fainted when I suggested we go across the border one evening to an event in Newtownbutler...she had been led to believe from what she had been reading that bullets would be almost whizzing past her ear in open warfare.

We had and have a special criminal court precisely because citizens were and are in fear of illegal organisations Like the IRA, Limerick drug gangs, Kinahan cartel. If there was no fear there would be no need for the court. The IRA intimated witnesses, look at the Jerry Mc Cabe case for one.
In my experience it is the same in communities on the border. If you witnessed an assault on the street after a nightclub and learned the attacker was from a local ra family you would keep your mouth shut.
Why? Out of respect? No, out of fear.

When “a volunteers” funeral cortège passed through the town local businesses were “requested” to close their premises by some friendly local “activists”. Of course they always did. Again not out of respect but out of fear.

Like anything else one gets used to fear and it becomes so normal as to be hardly noticed but the fear, like in communities in areas in Dublin and Limerick, is there none the less.



If you dismiss the idea that families and communities in Northern Ireland lived in fear I would recommend the award winning documentary

“A Mother Brings Her Som To Be Shot”

The title is pretty self explanatory.

I would also recommend reading professor Liam Kennedy’s report

“They Shoot Children Don’t They”.

Which catalogues more than 500 children shot or beaten by paramilitaries, including the IRA, many of them coordinated through the offices of Sinn Fein, during the troubles.

Professor Kennedy stated

“Northern Ireland was "a blackspot for the abuse of children in a form that had no parallel elsewhere in western Europe"

I think it is fair to say that there were communities in Northern Ireland living in fear during the troubles and to this day.

It seems there are now huge questions of Sinn Feins position on Hong Kong and the recent Chinese crack down on pro-democracy groups there.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/sinn-fein-faces-questions-as-mep-abstains-from-condemnation-of-hong-kong-crackdown-39445591.html

A Sinn Féin MEP abstained on a European Parliament vote condemning Hong Kong's controversial new security laws - in a move that puts a fresh spotlight on the party's relationship with China.

Midlands North West MEP Chris MacManus argued the resolution did not manage to "strike a balance between recognising China's sovereignty and raising valid concerns"

What is SF's play here?
They dont want to offend China?
They dont care about democracy or Human Rights?
They cant be seen to be siding with the British?
All of the above?

"Democracy for us, but not for thee"
Bunch of regressive fools.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Intimidation of witnesses happens everywhere and is not unique to NI or border areas.

It is targeted and specific.

I'm sorry but that doesn't fulfil the requirement of proof for tropes like 'communities living in fear of an overlord'

Again loads of elasticity with the reality of a given situation...in my town and I would hazard a guess it was the same in most small towns, all businesses would close at a funeral cortege passed...regardless of creed or status.


I and others have never claimed there was 'no fear', of course there was fear.
What I am contesting is that there were widespread communities living in fear of IRA overlords. There wasn't and there is certainly next to none now.

If you locked horns with the British, Loyalists or the IRA, yes you could and would pay the price if you crossed them.

But the reality is as pointed out by people here that lived through it and who still live in these communities that people got on with life.

Again...your and others inability to name 'these communities living in fear' is striking and telling. Tropes are important to those who wish to tout an agenda.

Not unlike the fantastic theories about Adam's nefariousness is the preposterous idea that these communities 'living in fear' are going into the secrecy of the ballot box electing the very people accused of intimidating them to public office, over and over again. Bizarre again.

Whatabout...

Whatabout...

Whatabout...

Whatabout...

...and no, fear and intimidation of witnesss by ex paramilitary terrorits dont happen everywhere.

markodaly wrote: »

They dont want to offend China?

The guy on the right in this picture doesn't seem to be too keen to offend either.



McManus explained why he abstained (MEPS abstain all the time, check out some of the abstentions of whatever MEP you support, a paper like the Sindo would have no bother making juicy inferences I bet. )

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Intimidation of witnesses happens everywhere and is not unique to NI or border areas.

It is targeted and specific.

I'm sorry but that doesn't fulfil the requirement of proof for tropes like 'communities living in fear of an overlord'

Again loads of elasticity with the reality of a given situation...in my town and I would hazard a guess it was the same in most small towns, all businesses would close at a funeral cortege passed...regardless of creed or status.


I and others have never claimed there was 'no fear', of course there was fear.
What I am contesting is that there were widespread communities living in fear of IRA overlords. There wasn't and there is certainly next to none now.

If you locked horns with the British, Loyalists or the IRA, yes you could and would pay the price if you crossed them.

But the reality is as pointed out by people here that lived through it and who still live in these communities that people got on with life.

Again...your and others inability to name 'these communities living in fear' is striking and telling. Tropes are important to those who wish to tout an agenda.

Not unlike the fantastic theories about Adam's nefariousness is the preposterous idea that these communities 'living in fear' are going into the secrecy of the ballot box electing the very people accused of intimidating them to public office, over and over again. Bizarre again.

Yet again with the selective certainty and willingness to “hazard a guess” that your experiences reflect everyone else’s experience.
Yet your opinion on questions hat you don’t want to answer remains “I don’t know”.

Why would anyone fear a “good republican” like Slab Murphy with his own personal Underground torture chamber. A man who testified against him in court ended up dead with a spike driven through his face a few months later. But of course you are right Francie, no one in the community or any other community was afraid of Slab and his ilk because that is your opinion and that alone “fulfills the requirement of proof” for the “myth” of informers in the IRA, the “myth” of IRA sexual abuse and now the “myth” of fear of these violent figures.
Well done Francie. Well done.

markodaly wrote: »

Would say the same about Criminal gangs? Or the Mafia?

No. Not at all. Criminal gangs and Mafia would be wiped out in a few days if British Army troops were after them. When internment was introduced about 2,000 people were interned without trial.