FrancieBrady wrote: » Same kind of one that would allegedly do it in Dublin and the market town of Monaghan? Armies...spreading terror to achieve the aims of their masters since time began mark.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Have you a list of these communities 'living in fear' blackwhite?...the other poster claiming they existed all over the north has taken a break. I managed quite fine during the conflict/war being opposed to the IRA campaign in a small border town. As I say, I know of not one punishment beating or kneecapping carried out by these all powerful 'overlords' of the IRA. They are as mythical around here as the beardy old men plotting the overthrow of the state from the Antrim hills tbh.
markodaly wrote: » Niall O'Dowd has long and strong links going back to SF for years. He was an intermediary between the US government and Gerry Adams for ages, which included getting him a Visa. So strong were his links to SF, Niall O'Dowd approached SF with a view of running for President in 2011 with the support of Adams and SF!! So, he is far from a 'neutral' party in this, in fact he comes across as a bit of a lacky.
In early June 2011, O'Dowd announced he was considering becoming a candidate in the 2011 Irish Presidential election, calling himself "an Irish Diaspora voice."[14] According to Walter Ellis, writing in the Irish Times, O'Dowd's goal was ...to call on the power of the Irish diaspora and bring it to bear on the country’s crippled economy. He would rally the world’s wealthiest Irish people and encourage them to invest in Ireland, North and South.[15] O'Dowd approached Sinn Féin and possibly other Irish parties seeking support. Sinn Féin, though then party president Gerry Adams, stated in mid-June that they had been "lobbied by all the independent candidates" including O'Dowd.[16] By 27 June, The Irish Echo declared the "Irish presidential field [is] starting to look crowded", citing a comment from O'Dowd saying "The reality is you have to fish where the fish are and the only votes for me are with Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin."[17] On the same day, Gerry Adams announced Sinn Féin would "will make no decision on whether to back Irish-American publisher Niall O’Dowd or any other independent candidate for the presidency until it decides next month whether to run its own candidate."[16] On 30 June, O'Dowd stated he would not be running for the office. O'Dowd stated his reasons involved "The logistical challenges of running for an office as an independent against established political parties is incredible."[18][19] Walter Ellis, writing in The Irish Times remarked that, despite many impressive qualifications, "O'Dowd would not get my vote," calling him "too much of an Irish-American for the Áras."[15]
Superfoods wrote: » First the PIRA was your friendly local with no "overlords" Now they are an army with masters. So which is it Francie?
markodaly wrote: » The UVF are also an 'army'? Hillarious! Who were the masters of the PIRA Francie? The People of NI?
Superfoods wrote: » First the PIRA was your friendly local with no "overlords" Now they are an army with masters. So which is it Francie? The fact you mention living on the border in nearly ever posts tells its own story.
Or I have a life...... I 100% agree you never knew of one punishment or kneecapping, maybe for a different reason to you.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Again, why can you not deal with what was actually said? I grew up in fairly close contact to the Irish army and the British army...who had masters. They didn't have 'overlords' either. So communities all over northern Ireland and along the border (including mine apparently) lived in fear of IRA overlord's but you cannot name any? Speaks for itself as a lazy trope. I remember talking to an American tourist here in my town (she was a student journalist believe it or not) she nearly fainted when I suggested we go across the border one evening to an event in Newtownbutler...she had been led to believe from what she had been reading that bullets would be almost whizzing past her ear in open warfare.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Again, why can you not deal with what was actually said? I grew up in fairly close contact to the Irish army and the British army...who had masters. They didn't have 'overlords' either. That's not to say you weren't aware you were in a sensitive area, so you minded your p's and q's. So communities all over northern Ireland and along the border (including mine apparently) lived in fear of IRA overlord's but you cannot name any? Speaks for itself as a lazy trope. I remember talking to an American tourist here in my town (she was a student journalist believe it or not) she nearly fainted when I suggested we go across the border one evening to an event in Newtownbutler...she had been led to believe from what she had been reading that bullets would be almost whizzing past her ear in open warfare.
Superfoods wrote: » If I had a euro for the amount of time I heard someone who met an American who thought Northern Ireland was a full on war zone. So no I don't believe it. I never said I couldn't name any communities.
Superfoods wrote: » I never said I couldn't name any communities.
dundalkfc10 wrote: » I lived in a border town and we would regularly go to Newry. People in these communities were more scared of RUC/BA than the IRA
nigeldaniel wrote: » Yip, I noticed the SF sneaky regard for commy China and the suppressant of democracy. The irony is there not the Sf and its cohorts will ever admit to it. I bet Sf would do the same in Ireland if they had half the chance.
joeguevara wrote: » I remember driving through strabane regularly as a kid as my father was from NW Donegal. Absolutely scared sh1tless on that bridge with the BA stops.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I walked through that checkpoint so many times hitching home from Letterkenny. A particularly intimidating one as was the Aughnacloy one on the other side. Especially after Aidan McAnespie was shot from the turret. The feeling that somebody was training a rifle sight on your back was hard to shirk.
SafeSurfer wrote: » We had and have a special criminal court precisely because citizens were and are in fear of illegal organisations Like the IRA, Limerick drug gangs, Kinahan cartel. If there was no fear there would be no need for the court. The IRA intimated witnesses, look at the Jerry Mc Cabe case for one. In my experience it is the same in communities on the border. If you witnessed an assault on the street after a nightclub and learned the attacker was from a local ra family you would keep your mouth shut. Why? Out of respect? No, out of fear. When “a volunteers” funeral cortège passed through the town local businesses were “requested” to close their premises by some friendly local “activists”. Of course they always did. Again not out of respect but out of fear. Like anything else one gets used to fear and it becomes so normal as to be hardly noticed but the fear, like in communities in areas in Dublin and Limerick, is there none the less. If you dismiss the idea that families and communities in Northern Ireland lived in fear I would recommend the award winning documentary “A Mother Brings Her Som To Be Shot” The title is pretty self explanatory. I would also recommend reading professor Liam Kennedy’s report “They Shoot Children Don’t They”. Which catalogues more than 500 children shot or beaten by paramilitaries, including the IRA, many of them coordinated through the offices of Sinn Fein, during the troubles. Professor Kennedy stated “Northern Ireland was "a blackspot for the abuse of children in a form that had no parallel elsewhere in western Europe" I think it is fair to say that there were communities in Northern Ireland living in fear during the troubles and to this day.
A Sinn Féin MEP abstained on a European Parliament vote condemning Hong Kong's controversial new security laws - in a move that puts a fresh spotlight on the party's relationship with China. Midlands North West MEP Chris MacManus argued the resolution did not manage to "strike a balance between recognising China's sovereignty and raising valid concerns"
SafeSurfer wrote: » In my experience it is the same in communities on the border. If you witnessed an assault on the street after a nightclub and learned the attacker was from a local ra family you would keep your mouth shut. Why? Out of respect? No, out of fear.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Intimidation of witnesses happens everywhere and is not unique to NI or border areas. It is targeted and specific. I'm sorry but that doesn't fulfil the requirement of proof for tropes like 'communities living in fear of an overlord' Again loads of elasticity with the reality of a given situation...in my town and I would hazard a guess it was the same in most small towns, all businesses would close at a funeral cortege passed...regardless of creed or status. I and others have never claimed there was 'no fear', of course there was fear. What I am contesting is that there were widespread communities living in fear of IRA overlords. There wasn't and there is certainly next to none now. If you locked horns with the British, Loyalists or the IRA, yes you could and would pay the price if you crossed them. But the reality is as pointed out by people here that lived through it and who still live in these communities that people got on with life. Again...your and others inability to name 'these communities living in fear' is striking and telling. Tropes are important to those who wish to tout an agenda. Not unlike the fantastic theories about Adam's nefariousness is the preposterous idea that these communities 'living in fear' are going into the secrecy of the ballot box electing the very people accused of intimidating them to public office, over and over again. Bizarre again.
jm08 wrote: » The only way the PIRA could operate the way they did was because they had the support of the community.
markodaly wrote: » They dont want to offend China?
markodaly wrote: » Whatabout... Whatabout... Whatabout... Whatabout... ...and no, fear and intimidation of witnesss by ex paramilitary terrorits dont happen everywhere.
FrancieBrady wrote: » The guy on the right in this picture doesn't seem to be too keen to offend either. McManus explained why he abstained (MEPS abstain all the time, check out some of the abstentions of whatever MEP you support, a paper like the Sindo would have no bother making juicy inferences I bet. )
markodaly wrote: » Would say the same about Criminal gangs? Or the Mafia?
SafeSurfer wrote: » Yet again with the selective certainty and willingness to “hazard a guess” that your experiences reflect everyone else’s experience. Yet your opinion on questions hat you don’t want to answer remains “I don’t know”. Why would anyone fear a “good republican” like Slab Murphy with his own personal Underground torture chamber. A man who testified against him in court ended up dead with a spike driven through his face a few months later. But of course you are right Francie, no one in the community or any other community was afraid of Slab and his ilk because that is your opinion and that alone “fulfills the requirement of proof” for the “myth” of informers in the IRA, the “myth” of IRA sexual abuse and now the “myth” of fear of these violent figures. Well done Francie. Well done.
