Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 09:28PM

Superfoods wrote: »

Why are you making stuff up?

What am I 'making up'?

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 09:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

On the basis that most organisations have had issues pre-awareness days with abuse and predation.
I am not aware that the incidence is any higher in the IRA than it is in like size organisations or demographic groups.
It's an opinion, I have no data to back it up, if you can enlighten us with data (not breathless 'I know of 40 cases'Regina Doherty allegations/what turned out to be fantasy/lies) work away on that one.

Most armies if not all, require a thug element to engage in what they do...that is the reality the world over. They don't have special army police for nothing.
The IRA was no different, I fully agree that thugs attached themselves.

Good to see you agreeing that there is no way of knowing how much infiltration happened.

I live in a border town well known as a republican stronghold, had several bombs during the troubles and notable participants living in it...I would know most people in it and around the area and I can genuinely say that all through the troubles I was never aware of one of these 'overlord' figures, controlling it. I think this is another myth blown out of proportion.

So the idea of local IRA godfathers such as Slab Murphy being powerful and feared figures in their communities, is, not just blown out of proportion, but like informers and sexual abuse in the republican organisation, “this is another myth blown out of proportion”.

So the notion of IRA informers, IRA sexual abuse and local IRA godfathers are not just exaggerated but are a MYTH? A widely held but false belief?

Is that your core belief?

Your house is close to the border and your experience of not being aware of any powerful local republican figures is certainly at odds with many other people living in similar situations. Confirmation bias may be at play.

RandomViewer · 12-08-2020 09:41PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

“Before he died”! He didn’t die, he was murdered.

Gardaí are conducting a criminal investigation in which the chief suspect is still in custody abroad. Not “preventing” an inquest for the craic.

So your theory is that the Sunday World photographer did it, is that it?

23 times?

Edgware · 12-08-2020 09:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

On the basis that most organisations have had issues pre-awareness days with abuse and predation.
I am not aware that the incidence is any higher in the IRA than it is in like size organisations or demographic groups.
It's an opinion, I have no data to back it up, if you can enlighten us with data (not breathless 'I know of 40 cases'Regina Doherty allegations/what turned out to be fantasy/lies) work away on that one.

Most armies if not all, require a thug element to engage in what they do...that is the reality the world over. They don't have special army police for nothing.
The IRA was no different, I fully agree that thugs attached themselves.

Good to see you agreeing that there is no way of knowing how much infiltration happened.

I live in a border town well known as a republican stronghold, had several bombs during the troubles and notable participants living in it...I would know most people in it and around the area and I can genuinely say that all through the troubles I was never aware of one of these 'overlord' figures, controlling it. I think this is another myth blown out of proportion.

uh

More make believe from the wannabee

SafeSurfer · 12-08-2020 09:44PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

23 times?

The suspect is still in prison overseas.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 09:46PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So the idea of local IRA godfathers such as Slab Murphy being powerful and feared figures in their communities, is, not just blown out of proportion, but like informers and sexual abuse in the republican organisation, “this is another myth blown out of proportion”.

So the notion of IRA informers, IRA sexual abuse and local IRA godfathers are not just exaggerated but are a MYTH? A widely held but false belief?

Is that your core belief?

Your house is close to the border and your experience of not being aware of any powerful local republican figures is certainly at odds with many other people living in similar situations. Confirmation bias may be at play.

I was totally aware of 'republican figures', but this 'community living in fear stuf' is a complete and utter nonsense here.
In respect of the town I lived in for the best part of 50 years I am not aware of a single 'punishment beating/shooting' or a 'republican figure laying down the law as you say was widespread.

It's an easy thing to print and say, much harder to find evidence of it being a widespread phenomena.
Punishment beatings happened in certain areas, we all know that, but whole communities living in fear across NI and along the border does not for a minute match the reality, it's a gross distortion of the truth, just as representing the area as 'lawless' is.

Superfoods · 12-08-2020 09:47PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What am I 'making up'?

So far the majority of the information in your posts is suspect. You claim to live beside the border but provide no information you can back up. Everything is vague "Oh i know this or that".

You deny all existence of the PIRA and now trying to say they have no "overlords". That is a lie. The PIRA itself was build based on an army. Do you think an army don't have commanders etc? what exactly do you think Gerry was doing when he commanded people to be killed? he was just one of the grunts?

Maybe nobody else on this forum lives along the border area and that's why you are coming up with these stories. I just think your no more living on the border area than you are living on the moon

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 09:54PM

Superfoods wrote: »

So far the majority of the information in your posts is suspect. You claim to live beside the border but provide no information you can back up. Everything is vague "Oh i know this or that".

You deny all existence of the PIRA and now trying to say they have no "overlords". That is a lie. The PIRA itself was build based on an army. Do you think an army don't have commanders etc? what exactly do you think Gerry was doing when he commanded people to be killed? he was just one of the grunts?

Did someone mention vague?

Maybe nobody else on this forum lives along the border area and that's why you are coming up with these stories. I just think your no more living on the border area than you are living on the moon

I cannot prove where I am from...I have never lied about it here...I live seconds away from the border...believe it or not.

Superfoods · 12-08-2020 10:10PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was totally aware of 'republican figures', but this 'community living in fear stuf' is a complete and utter nonsense here.
In respect of the town I lived in for the best part of 50 years I am not aware of a single 'punishment beating/shooting' or a 'republican figure laying down the law as you say was widespread.

It's an easy thing to print and say, much harder to find evidence of it being a widespread phenomena.
Punishment beatings happened in certain areas, we all know that, but whole communities living in fear across NI and along the border does not for a minute match the reality, it's a gross distortion of the truth, just as representing the area as 'lawless' is.

Are you having a laugh? how are you coming up with this stuff? so nobody North or South of border lived in fear?

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 10:13PM

Superfoods wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? how are you coming up with this stuff? so nobody North or South of border lived in fear?

Where did I say that?

joeguevara · 12-08-2020 10:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where did I say that?

I think it’s a misunderstanding after you said that living in fear is a ‘complete and utter nonsense’ for people living where you are. I don’t think you meant that it was your intention to suggest that it didn’t happen in other places but I can understand how it was interpreted that way.

Bonniedog · 12-08-2020 10:24PM

jm08 wrote: »

More John Hume I think. Very influential in Irish America. It was he who Clinton consulted initially.

Well, you'd be wrong. O'Dowd and Adams are as thick as thieves and have been for nearly 30 years.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 10:26PM

joeguevara wrote: »

I think it’s a misunderstanding after you said that living in fear is a ‘complete and utter nonsense’ for people living where you are. I don’t think you meant that it was your intention to suggest that it didn’t happen in other places but I can understand how it was interpreted that way.

People reading tabloid headlines and sensationalism and taking it as gospel is a huge issue.

Look at Slab Murphy for instance...Slab may have been feared and been a thug...but 1000's of people in his community were not living in fear as 99.9% of them would have no dealings with him or crossed his path.
Yes, some people no doubt lived in fear of him...but this gets blown out of all proportion...the vast majority of people got on with their lives during the conflict.

Edgware · 12-08-2020 10:29PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People reading tabloid headlines and sensationalism and taking it as gospel is a huge issue.

Look at Slab Murphy for instance...Slab may have been feared and been a thug...but 1000's of people in his community were not living in fear as 99.9% of them would have no dealings with him or crossed his path.
Yes, some people no doubt lived in fear of him...but this gets blown out of all proportion...the vast majority of people got on with their lives during the conflict.

Desperate stuff altogether

joeguevara · 12-08-2020 10:30PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People reading tabloid headlines and sensationalism and taking it as gospel is a huge issue.

Look at Slab Murphy for instance...Slab may have been feared and been a thug...but 1000's of people in his community were not living in fear as 99.9% of them would have no dealings with him or crossed his path.
Yes, some people no doubt lived in fear of him...but this gets blown out of all proportion...the vast majority of people got on with their lives during the conflict.

I would agree to a large extent. In republican areas if you lived a normal life and didn’t sell drugs, commit crime etc you had nothing to fear from the para militaries. If you were a wee scr0te you were dealt with. However it is also true that protection money (tax) was also required from businesses in many places so I’m sure that they were fearful of that. In a lot of ways it was similar to the mafia set up. People went to them when they had problems and weren’t to a large extent effected. But being fearful and fear are definitely separate things but can be mixed up when explained.

But other sides of the community were definitely in fear. Especially when death cars were seen. But that’s not universal to one side.

Superfoods · 12-08-2020 10:32PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People reading tabloid headlines and sensationalism and taking it as gospel is a huge issue.

Look at Slab Murphy for instance...Slab may have been feared and been a thug...but 1000's of people in his community were not living in fear as 99.9% of them would have no dealings with him or crossed his path.
Yes, some people no doubt lived in fear of him...but this gets blown out of all proportion...the vast majority of people got on with their lives during the conflict.

Rubbish. Go out for a few beers and look in wrong direction and you had target on your back. The PIRA ran entire communities based on fear. Anyone cross a line and you knew about it. Simple as that. Otherwise people would have gone up against them, so they made sure everyone was in line.

I never seen any of that reported in the press, I didn't see a lot of the carry on reported ever in the press. During or since.

I am just wondering what your angle is on this? are you saying the PIRA helped sponsor local childcare and play grounds? everyone loved the local representative in the town. Sure he was a lovely lad. Most of these guys where headcases, beating someone meant nothing because it wasn't like the local Garda was going to bother his ass going up against them

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 10:36PM

Superfoods wrote: »

Rubbish. Go out for a few beers and look in wrong direction and you had target on your back. The PIRA ran entire communities based on fear. Anyone cross a line and you knew about it. Simple as that. Otherwise people would have gone up against them, so they made sure everyone was in line.

I never seen any of that reported in the press, I didn't see a lot of the carry on reported ever in the press. During or since.

I am just wondering what your angle is on this? are you saying the PIRA helped sponsor local childcare and play grounds? everyone loved the local representative in the town. Sure he was a lovely lad. Most of these guys where headcases, beating someone meant nothing because it wasn't like the local Garda was going to bother his ass going up against them

What 'entire communities'? Can you list some?

Bishop of hope · 12-08-2020 10:40PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People reading tabloid headlines and sensationalism and taking it as gospel is a huge issue.

Look at Slab Murphy for instance...Slab may have been feared and been a thug...but 1000's of people in his community were not living in fear as 99.9% of them would have no dealings with him or crossed his path.
Yes, some people no doubt lived in fear of him...but this gets blown out of all proportion...the vast majority of people got on with their lives during the conflict.

Tbf most people along the border didn't know most of the activists along it or close to it.
There were loads of activists country wide as well.
They didn't go around with uniforms on telling people how to live or act.
The fear for most people was just making sure they weren't in the wrong place at the wrong time and get caught up in an actual violent episode.
The IRA weren't like the gestapo, ordinary life was carried on without fear mostly.
If you wanted to experience fear, seeing the British army crawling in ditches and hedgerows with their guns trained on passing traffic, or the UDR strutting about or their checkpoints, that was rule by fear and intimidation.

FrancieBrady · 12-08-2020 11:42PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Tbf most people along the border didn't know most of the activists along it or close to it.
There were loads of activists country wide as well.
They didn't go around with uniforms on telling people how to live or act.
The fear for most people was just making sure they weren't in the wrong place at the wrong time and get caught up in an actual violent episode.
The IRA weren't like the gestapo, ordinary life was carried on without fear mostly.
If you wanted to experience fear, seeing the British army crawling in ditches and hedgerows with their guns trained on passing traffic, or the UDR strutting about or their checkpoints, that was rule by fear and intimidation.

I get you...there is nothing quite like the surge of adrenalin when you ran into a duck patrol along the Drumully salient in the dead of night. Had experience of that a few times and I don't want to go back.You are afraid, the poor squaddie is petrified...recipe for a disaster.

I agree there were all sorts of 'fearful' situations you could find yourself in but the idea of 'communities under control by fear' is a nonsense.
Anytime a lazy arsed journalist uses that trope and they STILL do I immediately know they don't know what they are talking about or have an agenda, or both.

jm08 · 12-08-2020 11:53PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

You are obviously not familiar with his work!

Has been Adams groupie for 30 years.

I'm well familiar with his work in supporting the peace process in NI.

jm08 · 12-08-2020 11:58PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

When archives are compiled, such as the Boston Tapes and they reveal Adams role in the IRA you dismiss them as unreliable.

Yet the person who compiled them, Ed Moloney, believes that Gerry Adams should have got the Nobel Peace Prize and not John Hume.

blackwhite · 13-08-2020 12:50AM

To be fair - I can’t imagine that anyone who spends every waking moment that have defending both SF and the IRA for anything and everything would ever have needed to fear the local IRA heavies. They’d be treated like royalty by them

blackwhite · 13-08-2020 12:52AM

jm08 wrote: »

Yet the person who compiled them, Ed Moloney, believes that Gerry Adams should have got the Nobel Peace Prize and not John Hume.

Surprised it took more than a week for the acolytes to resume attacking Humes legacy of peace :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 13-08-2020 12:58AM

blackwhite wrote: »

To be fair - I can’t imagine that anyone who spends every waking moment that have defending both SF and the IRA for anything and everything would ever have needed to fear the local IRA heavies. They’d be treated like royalty by them

Have you a list of these communities 'living in fear' blackwhite?...the other poster claiming they existed all over the north has taken a break.

I managed quite fine during the conflict/war being opposed to the IRA campaign in a small border town.

As I say, I know of not one punishment beating or kneecapping carried out by these all powerful 'overlords' of the IRA. They are as mythical around here as the beardy old men plotting the overthrow of the state from the Antrim hills tbh.

jm08 · 13-08-2020 01:16AM

blackwhite wrote: »

Surprised it took more than a week for the acolytes to resume attacking Humes legacy of peace :rolleyes:

I think Moloney always held that belief.

Anyway, you missed the point of the post.

FrancieBrady · 13-08-2020 01:35AM

blackwhite wrote: »

Surprised it took more than a week for the acolytes to resume attacking Humes legacy of peace :rolleyes:

Hume's legacy was one of failure until the Hume-Adams initiative which was actually the legacy of Fr Alex Reid if truth be told.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/ni-peace-process-began-with-question-from-fr-alec-reid-to-gerry-adams-1.3110454

markodaly · 13-08-2020 02:13AM

Bonniedog wrote: »

The 1916 - 21 revolution failed in securing a 32 county Republic, but it did succeed in securing political independence for the 26 counties.

The IRA campaign of 1970 - 1998 achieved none of the IRA's objectives. And at the cost of many lives of people on all sides including the hunger strikers of the 1970s and 1981.

Carpet bagging shinners shouting "Up the Ra" after a few pints is embarrassing to be honest; the "Ra" having abjectly surrendered.

This. So this!

History is actually going to be very bad for the PIRA, VERY bad! There will be no statues of Adams or Storey. No streets named after them. No primary schools taking the names of Provo traitors.

Why? Because they achieved **** all. Their goals of the late 1960's/early 1970's are public and well known and they achieved the sum of nothing of them...

They murdered and bombed with wanton abandon.
They targetted civilians, women and children.
They engaged in sectarian murderers, of working-class people, earning their crust of bread, like in Kingsmill.
They murdered the old, they murdered the young, all in the name of 'the cause'.

For what? A glorified talking shop in Stormont which even the most staunch Shinner will admit, has no 'real' power?
They are still ruled effectively by Westminster.
The British Army is armed and still stationed in NI.

As a famous quote said.
"...the Unionists have won. They're too stupid to see it, and the Republicans are too clever to admit it."

Compare and contrast to the 1920's IRA who actually had a popular mandate, and used it to create a new state.

The PIRA never achieved that. In fact, the PIRA and their ilk are traitors, who until recently didn't even recognise the Dail, as the legitimate sovereign parliament of the Republic. They too didn't recognise the Irish Army, or the Gardai and murdered both in the name of their cause.

The PIRA will be like those old confederates in Southern USA. Some yokel's will love them, but the majority of people will see them for what they are. Traitors who fought against their country and lost.

markodaly · 13-08-2020 02:26AM

jm08 wrote: »

In fairness, Niall O'Dowd who wrote that article in Irish Central isn't holding back in his criticism of them. And what adds more weight to what he says is that he is the brother of a Fine Gael TD, so not a closet Shinner.

SS - what age are you - are you old enough to remember the 1966 commemorations?

Niall O'Dowd has long and strong links going back to SF for years.

He was an intermediary between the US government and Gerry Adams for ages, which included getting him a Visa.

So strong were his links to SF, Niall O'Dowd approached SF with a view of running for President in 2011 with the support of Adams and SF!!

So, he is far from a 'neutral' party in this, in fact he comes across as a bit of a lacky.

markodaly · 13-08-2020 02:31AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Too many spy film watchers about.
A few guys decided to get rich and turned traitor...happens in every army in the world.

Oh, the PIRA are a real 'army' now? Not just a terrorist outfit?

Tell me, what army plants bombs in an English market town on a Saturday afternoon and kills 3-year-old toddler and a 12-year-old boy?

FrancieBrady · 13-08-2020 02:34AM

markodaly wrote: »

Oh, the PIRA are a real 'army' now? Not just a terrorist outfit?

Tell me, what army plants bombs in an English market town on a Saturday afternoon and kills 3-year-old toddler and a 12-year-old boy?

Same kind of one that would allegedly do it in Dublin and the market town of Monaghan?

Armies...spreading terror to achieve the aims of their masters since time began mark.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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