Desperately need help to get comfortable on the bike

D13exile · 09-08-2020 06:34PM #1

I posted most of this in the “how was your cycle today” thread but I’m throwing it out to the wider forum as I really need help getting comfortable on the bike.

Quick summary
I’ve been cycling regularly (about 4 times a week with spins of 40-80kms and averaging speeds of 33kph) for about 6 years now. I’m pretty fit as I’m hardly breathing heavy while pushing that speed and I can do long spins without stopping. However I have never ever had a spin where I was pain free in the saddle area. Not once...ever. I’ve had proper bike fits and I’ve had three different saddles (original Bontrager, a leather Brooks and a Selle Italia) but none of them ever gave me a pain free cycle. So I went back to my bike fitter yesterday and had a refit including a sit bone test. He fitted a new saddle and according to the read outs, this new saddle showed that I was putting less pressure on my sit bones. So I went for a longish spin this morning to test it out. Let’s just say that after just 5kms, I was feeling the new saddle and after 40kms, I had to get off the bike as I was in agony. My ass was on fire with pain and my man bits felt like they would burst with the pressure on them. A few minutes walking got rid of the pain but once back on the bike, it was agony again. I turned for home and did the last 32kms in an hour despite the pain but I honestly felt like getting off the bike and fecking it into a ditch.

It’s bloody frustrating as I’ve gotten the bike fit, I’m in good shape and I can maintain a good speed for long distances but I just cannot get a pain free spin. I’d love to just concentrate on pushing myself hard to up my speed but all I think about is how much my saddle is digging into me. Cycling is becoming a chore now as I know that I’m going to suffer in the pursuit of trying to stay fit.

So that’s my whinge. I honestly don’t know what to do. If a professional bike fitter with all the gizmos can’t get me comfortable on the bike, what next? I can’t afford to buy saddle after saddle to try and find “the one”. What about bibs? My go to bibs are the Galibier brand as I’ve tried dhb, sportful and endura in the past without success.

Any ideas or does anyone want to buy a bike? (and I’m only half joking as I’m not a masochist and I don’t like putting myself through pain again and again)

Tony04 · 09-08-2020 07:50PM

If you have decent bibs you can rule that out. Have you tried a cut out saddle/ non cut out saddle?

Man with broke phone · 09-08-2020 07:54PM

Whats your height and weight?

Luxman · 09-08-2020 08:14PM

This doesn't seem right to me "this new saddle showed that I was putting less pressure on my sit bones."

Your sit bones should be taking the bulk of the weight/pressure. I have been fairly lucky with saddles, over the years I found the Brooks the best, no longer use one but it was delightful once you get past the breaking in the leather stage. The reason is that it is rock hard which means your sit bones are taking your weight as they should, thus relieving pressure on the soft squishy bits. There is no soft foam bits to contact the sensitive areas thus protecting them.

when you sit on the bike you should clearly feel your bones being in contact with the saddle, very distinct sensation. Not saying you should run off and buy a Brooks now, but the fitter seems to be going in the wrong direction if they are trying to receive the pressure.

I stand /sit to be corrected on the above, just my experience

D13exile · 09-08-2020 08:25PM

Tony04 wrote: »

If you have decent bibs you can rule that out. Have you tried a cut out saddle/ non cut out saddle?

My last saddle (Selle Italia) was a cut out and my ass would be numb on it and eventually painful. This new one has no cut out and my ass is on fire with pain and my man bits feel like the pressure is going to burst then.

D13exile · 09-08-2020 08:27PM

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Whats your height and weight?

I’m 1 metre 78 and 92 kg. I’m built like a rugby player, broad shoulders and 44 inch chest but I’ve no fat on me. My diet is good and so it’s not a case that I’m carrying too much weight around that I can lose.

D13exile · 09-08-2020 08:30PM

Luxman wrote: »

This doesn't seem right to me "this new saddle showed that I was putting less pressure on my sit bones."

Your sit bones should be taking the bulk of the weight/pressure. I have been fairly lucky with saddles, over the years I found the Brooks the best, no longer use one but it was delightful once you get past the breaking in the leather stage. The reason is that it is rock hard which means your sit bones are taking your weight as they should, thus relieving pressure on the soft squishy bits. There is no soft foam bits to contact the sensitive areas thus protecting them.

when you sit on the bike you should clearly feel your bones being in contact with the saddle, very distinct sensation. Not saying you should run off and buy a Brooks now, but the fitter seems to be going in the wrong direction if they are trying to receive the pressure.

I stand /sit to be corrected on the above, just my experience

When I say there was less pressure on the sit bones, it was a measurement taken once on my old saddle and then again on the new one. It showed a decrease in weight/pressure on the sit bones. He also lowered my handlebars to put more weight onto my hands and to push me forward off the saddle I suppose. I did feel the pressure on the sit bones this morning alright, especially the right one. I cycle a fair bit and so my undercarriage should be toughened up but jesus it was bloody painful today.

I have a brooks and used it for about a year but I never found it comfortable either.

Tony04 · 09-08-2020 09:27PM

Cut out saddles are designed to alleviate pressure off your bits, so if they felt squashed on your ride today that might be the culprit.
The pain in your sitbone might be from under engagement on your last saddle??? Or is it the same as previously

D13exile · 09-08-2020 09:44PM

Tony04 wrote: »

Cut out saddles are designed to alleviate pressure off your bits, so if they felt squashed on your ride today that might be the culprit.
The pain in your sitbone might be from under engagement on your last saddle??? Or is it the same as previously

Yes I think I definitely need a cut out although he did say cut outs can actually put pressure on the soft tissue.

Sorry I don’t know what you mean by “under engagement”? On my previous Selle Italia saddle, I’d go numb on the left side which would become painful after about 20kms. On this one, the pain starts on the right side and then spreads.

Tony04 · 09-08-2020 10:12PM

Cut outs divide opinion some people swear by them some people loathe them. But if they work for you go for them. I would be under the thinking that overtime soft tissue would adapt to demands placed on it and as long you dont overdo it you shouldn't have any issues there, but am open to correction.
What I mean by under engagement is that on your previous saddle position you were perhaps putting pressure on some areas more (overengaged) than others (undrengaged). That could be why you were experiencing soreness on your right sit bone today as your left which you said used to get numb was probably under to much pressure(causes numbness) and therefore your right sitbone wouldn't be used to sitting on the saddle, causing soreness today.

smacl · 10-08-2020 12:00AM

What tyre widths and pressures are you running? If you go for a wider tyre at lower pressure it will soften the ride a fair bit. Also changing hand position can relieve weight on your rear end and change the area taking pressure.

nilhg · 10-08-2020 08:15AM

A couple of bike fits (at least) over 6 years and never pain free is a spectacularly bad result for both rider and bike fitter, personally if I was you I'd be seeking a second opinion.

For what it's worth, and that's not much as rider interaction with the contact points of his/her bike is such a personal thing here's a few things I'd try.

Do a few rides with copious amounts of chamois creme applied, may not have any effect but if friction is part of the issue you should notice a difference.

Try at least one of the new(ish) varieties of snubby nosed saddles, Specalised power is the first one that comes to mind but there are loads of brands. Ideally get a loan of one somewhere but some shops/brands have try before you buy policies in place.

Sometimes a slight downward tip of the front of the saddle can make a difference to comfort.

Shorts, you didn't say what you have but given the situation you find yourself in you'd have to be looking at these as well. My experience is that generally once you stay out of the real budget category the pads are decent but occasionally I've had shorts/saddle combinations that didn't work for me.

hesker · 10-08-2020 08:35AM

You’ve tried different saddles but have you tried different width saddles.

iwillhtfu · 10-08-2020 10:05AM

D13exile wrote: »

If a professional bike fitter with all the gizmos can’t get me comfortable on the bike, what next?

Who did you do the bike fit with? It's all well and good having the toys but if you don't know how to use them they're useless.

Also any change in rider position is going to feel uncomfortable as the body adjusts. I'm not sure why he would move more weight onto your hands though I'd have thought that would just move the issue.

It's recommended all the time but it is a cheap risk. The charge spoon saddle is only €22 depending on where you shop and it is a very comfortable saddle.

Vincenzo Nibbly · 10-08-2020 10:24AM

Is your saddle dead level, or tilted nose down a tiny bit? For my money, 2.5 degrees nose down is the sweet spot.

D13exile · 10-08-2020 10:53AM

Thanks for all the replies guys.

First off, my bike fitter is recognised as the best in the business but I’m not naming names. He loaned me this new saddle to try out for a few weeks. I’m going to go for a few short 30km spins and suffer for the hour in the hope it’ll break in. Otherwise I’ll be bringing it back to him.

He fitted the saddle nose down but I felt myself sliding forward on the bike yesterday which I’ve never experienced before. I kept shoving myself back in the saddle and locking my arms to keep myself back.

I tried different hand positions too to see if that would help my weight distribution, ie on hoods, drops and top of bars but nothing helped.

As for tyres, I’m running Conti GP4000 700x25 with 100psi in front and 110psi in rear (which is the recommended for my weight).

The only thing I’ve left to try myself is a change of bib shorts. I use Galibeir gear as I find its well made and lasts. But as I suffer with the seating area, I’m open to trying another brand to see if it helps. I know this is personal choice but I’m willing to try anything at this point. So are there any other 5ft 10, 90kg cyclists with 44 inch chest out there and what brand/size do you swear by?

I feel if I can solve this saddle soreness issue, I’ll be unstoppable on the bike!

ED E · 10-08-2020 10:57AM

Any compliance in your frame?

10-08-2020 11:48AM

In all seriousness, have you thought about a recumbent, you won't get more comfortable than that

smacl · 10-08-2020 01:09PM

D13exile wrote: »

As for tyres, I’m running Conti GP4000 700x25 with 100psi in front and 110psi in rear (which is the recommended for my weight).

The only thing I’ve left to try myself is a change of bib shorts. I use Galibeir gear as I find its well made and lasts. But as I suffer with the seating area, I’m open to trying another brand to see if it helps. I know this is personal choice but I’m willing to try anything at this point. So are there any other 5ft 10, 90kg cyclists with 44 inch chest out there and what brand/size do you swear by?

Currently 82kg down from 91kg at Christmas, 6ft, not sure of my chest measurement but typically XL in jumpers and the like. Way slower on the bike than you though ~25kph on the flat, ~20kph on hilly routes. Went through a few saddles and couple of years of discomfort before settling on the Brooks B17 as my saddle of choice. The B17 took a fair number of long rides to get used to but is probably the only saddle I'm really comfortable in. Currently using Galibier and DHB Aeron bibs and no big issues for a couple of 6-7 hour spins over the last month or so. Also currently running 38c Shwlabe G1 gravel tyres at 40/50 psi front back as I mix in a fair bit of off-road. Used to run Durano plus 25c at 90/100psi front back which were way harsher but still softer than your setup.

Just a guess but I reckon wider tyres at lower pressure will give you more comfort, albeit risking losing a small amount of speed due to rolling resistance. In your position, first thing I'd try are 28c tyres if you've got the clearance, running at the minimum pressure to avoid pinch flats for your weight. Also worth checking the size of your bibs, I'm XL in Galibier and could probably get away with a slightly larger size, the DHB XL is defo a slightly looser fit. Could be worth trying one size up to get more wriggle room and as someone else suggested and bit of chamois cream.

Best of luck with it, I reckon many of us have been through similar pain but not for anywhere near so long.

gaffmaster · 10-08-2020 02:09PM

Has your bike fitter done anything to your feet? Often, instability in the feet can cause problems in the saddle area. I was getting saddle sores until I supported my arches properly. I have custom insoles, but found they don't offer enough arch support, and have replaced them with G8 insoles instead (these are highly adjustable).

Also - try dropping your saddle 20mm for a ride or two. If the pain in your hoop eases, raise the saddle incremently to find the sweet spot. There's a chance your fitter might have been working to a metric on this, but you might sit outside the brackets of 'average'.

Edit: Also try sliding your cleats all the way back towards the heel of your shoes for more stability.

hesker · 10-08-2020 02:10PM

I know you’ve tried a Brooks leather saddle but have read of people complaining of some that were impossible to break in. Might be worth trying another although appreciate it might be difficult to stay with it.

A proper functioning Brooks should mould itself slightly to your fit as it gets broken in. Retensioning will probably be necessary. As they are a suspension saddle they should not be rock hard after they have been broken in. However this doesn’t happen for some people for whatever reason.

The above is just from what I’ve read over the years and you’ve possibly already heard it all.

I suffered serious saddle pain when I got back into cycling but the solution for me was to address tight muscles.

07Lapierre · 10-08-2020 02:19PM

What bike do you have?

D13exile · 10-08-2020 03:01PM

I've a Trek Domane. It's an endurance geometry with a supposedly flexible seat post to soften the ride.

I still have the Brooks B17 saddle I bought five years ago up in the attic. It was on the bike for a year and should have been well broken in but not for me.

The new saddle he fitted is the absolute minimum when it comes to saddles. Little padding and a slim shape. My last Selle Italia had more padding, a cut out and was longer. He said judging by the wear on the sides of it, my thighs were rubbing off it. The new saddle is narrower and the thighs don't come into contact with it.

As I said, he also tilted it slightly down at the front. I don't think this suits me as I was forever pushing myself back on the saddle yesterday and having to lock my arms to keep myself there.

As I said, this guy knows his business and I'm sure some/most of you have guessed who he is. Therefore I don't doubt his expertise. The issue is with my ass, which appears to be the achilles heel of my set up (bad pun I know)

nak · 10-08-2020 03:44PM

I would have thought that lowering your bars would cause more pressure on your pelvis. The Specialized Mimic Power saddle might be worth a try, short nose and the cutout has been filled with a squidgy material to alleviate pressure. It's branded as a women's saddle but is also popular with men. Important to get the correct width and can take a bit of tweaking to the bike fit to get it right.

MojoMaker · 10-08-2020 04:03PM

If it's AH I would say he hasn't been the best in the business for some time now - very basic service in 2020.

I'm about your dimensions, a little bigger if anything, and I settled on a Prologo Kappa Evo with PAS (basically a cutaway) 143mm width - have it on all my bikes now, absolute bliss. Not the world's lightest saddle by any means, but no slug either.

I got to this saddle after much the same debate as you - albeit not driven by outright pain, more by general comfort and support. Fizik used to have a gauge on their website which oriented most cyclists across their 3 main road offerings - Arione, Antares, and Aliante - depending on your build, mobility, and flexibility. Much of the theory carries over cross-manufacturer, to the extent that if you're an Aliante-rider then never try to force an Arione-type saddle under your ar$e, and so on.....might be worth a look.

Eamonnator · 10-08-2020 04:08PM

O.P.
I'm in Drogheda.
I have the following
1) Charge Spoon.
2) Fizik Antares.
3) Selle Italia Max Flite.

If you want to try any or all of these for a week or so, you are welcome to do so.
1 and 2 are almost new. 3 is old, but is in good condition, it has the cut out.
None are for sale.

Luxman · 10-08-2020 05:15PM

Im in Ratoath and have a charge spoon and a Astute skylab saddle if you want to test them

who_ru · 10-08-2020 07:09PM

https://youtu.be/QMy_2pR4Mzg

07Lapierre · 10-08-2020 07:28PM

MojoMaker wrote: »

If it's AH I would say he hasn't been the best in the business for some time now - very basic service in 2020.

I'm about your dimensions, a little bigger if anything, and I settled on a Prologo Kappa Evo with PAS (basically a cutaway) 143mm width - have it on all my bikes now, absolute bliss. Not the world's lightest saddle by any means, but no slug either.

I got to this saddle after much the same debate as you - albeit not driven by outright pain, more by general comfort and support. Fizik used to have a gauge on their website which oriented most cyclists across their 3 main road offerings - Arione, Antares, and Aliante - depending on your build, mobility, and flexibility. Much of the theory carries over cross-manufacturer, to the extent that if you're an Aliante-rider then never try to force an Arione-type saddle under your ar$e, and so on.....might be worth a look.

According to Fizik, with my lack of flexibility, I should be using the Antares saddle. I've been using the Arione without any issue.

IMO..a comfortable saddle is one that is the right width (sit bones) that is set at the right height, at the right tilt (either level, slightly tilted up or down) and is then combined with handlebars that are set to the correct "reach" from the saddle.

In short, you can have a really good saddle, but if it's at the wrong height, the tilt or "reach" are incorrect, you will be uncomfortable.

I would advise the OP to start with a saddle with the correct width and set it at the correct height and ensure it is level (use a spirit level). After that, make one small change and try it for a week. If you make a lot of changes at the same time, you'll never figure out what's correct for you.

Wildly Boaring · 10-08-2020 07:31PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

According to Fizik, with my lack of flexibility, I should be using the Antares saddle. I've been using the Arione without any issue.

IMO..a comfortable saddle is one that is the right width (sit bones) that is set at the right height, at the right tilt (either level, slightly tilted up or down) and is then combined with handlebars that are set to the correct "reach" from the saddle.

In short, you can have a really good saddle, but if it's at the wrong height, the tilt or "reach" are incorrect, you will be uncomfortable.

I'm no expert but this is my experience.
My saddle issue boiled down to being up too high.

Dropped the saddle 20 or 25mm and moved my cleats right back.

Back up maybe 10mm and have got into a better position with lower bars since.

No saddle issues on either bike. Two completely different saddles

07Lapierre · 10-08-2020 07:47PM

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I'm no expert but this is my experience.
My saddle issue boiled down to being up too high.

Dropped the saddle 20 or 25mm and moved my cleats right back.

Back up maybe 10mm and have got into a better position with lower bars since.

No saddle issues on either bike. Two completely different saddles

Agreed...I think a saddle that's a little too low would be more comfortable than a saddle that's too high.

It's not an easy problem to solve, but IMO a saddle that is level and at the right height should not cause the issues the OP describes. It's also worth noting that if you adjust the saddle height, the handlebars also have to be raised/lowered accordingly.

Desperately need help to get comfortable on the bike

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