Desperately need help to get comfortable on the bike

Cee-Jay-Cee

D13exile wrote: »

Inner leg measurement of 32inches. Trek’s website says that puts me on a 56cm frame. However as you said, my bike fits just haven’t worked for me. My biggest problem with tinkering myself is my utter lack of patience. If I changed something and it made me worse, I’d quickly get a head of steam up and well let’s just say, I’d fear for the bike’s safety!

I know I should change one thing at a time in small increments but change what? Handlebar height or reach? Unflip my stem? Seat up or down, back or forth? So many combinations and I could end up worse off. I’m 51 and while I’m in good condition, I’d say I’m more prone to injuries as I’m not as flexible or adaptable as someone in their 20’s or 30’s.

You have quite long legs for your height so your saddle is possibly quite high and therefore your reaching further too. I’m 181cm (5’11” ) with 84cm inner leg. I have my saddle almost 5cm lower than what the guides suggest but I’m comfortable and can pedal along at 27-30kmph on solo rides and 30-33 on group rides. I would take comfort over speed any day.

If I were you I would fit a shorter stem (90mm) and drop your saddle 1cm and try that for a few weeks to see how you get on.

However if you truely believe that the saddle is the problem I will lend you a Prologo Dimension for a few weeks to see how you get on with it. If it helps then you can buy it off me if you wish or send it back and buy your own. PM me if want

D13exile

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

You have quite long legs for your height so your saddle is possibly quite high and therefore your reaching further too. I’m 181cm (5’11” ) with 84cm inner leg. I have my saddle almost 5cm lower than what the guides suggest but I’m comfortable and can pedal along at 27-30kmph on solo rides and 30-33 on group rides. I would take comfort over speed any day.

If I were you I would fit a shorter stem (90mm) and drop your saddle 1cm and try that for a few weeks to see how you get on.

However if you truely believe that the saddle is the problem I will lend you a Prologo Dimension for a few weeks to see how you get on with it. If it helps then you can buy it off me if you wish or send it back and buy your own. PM me if want

Thanks mate. At this point I don't know if its the saddle, reach or me that's the problem. I haven't cycled since last Sunday, and I usually get at least 4 spins in each week. The sore balls issue went away after three day's rest and I did move the saddle forward a few mms and tilt it slightly down as my fitter recommended but I haven't been back out on it yet. This guy is well known and he adjusted the bike based on my measurements. How did he get it wrong as I've been back to him 5 times at this point??? (talking to myself here!!).

I checked Wiggle and Chain Reaction for that saddle you recommended. As is usual, there are many models of saddle with that moniker. Which one do you have? My fitter said my sit bones are not wide and a saddle in between 133 and 140mm would fit me.

gaffmaster

Did you mention you had another fit booked with a different fitter? I wouldn't make any kit purchases until after you've had your new fitter's input.

Cee-Jay-Cee

D13exile wrote: »

I checked Wiggle and Chain Reaction for that saddle you recommended. As is usual, there are many models of saddle with that moniker. Which one do you have? My fitter said my sit bones are not wide and a saddle in between 133 and 140mm would fit me.

Yes its the 143mm wide saddle with Tirox rails that I have so shoud be suitable for you.

D13exile

I had a four hour bike re-fit last week with a different fitter and the good news is that my saddle issues have all but gone. He tried 5 saddles before he found one that suited me, a Fizik Argo Tempo short nose saddle. I've done three one hour spins without much discomfort (minor cramp in my left hamstring), which is a major improvement for me. Didn't have to stand up once for ass relief which has never happened before.

He advised that I consider getting new wider handlebars though as my shoulder to shoulder measurement is 44cm while my existing bars are 42cm. He said this may be contributing to my neck and shoulder pain as my arms are reaching in instead of straight ahead when on the drops, hoods etc. He also wants to put a longer stem on the bars to make me lean forward more. Has anyone else gone with wider bars on their bike? I'm sure I'm not the only one with wide shoulders?

As for the new position on the bike, I feel a lot more "powerful" in my pedal stroke and for the first time yesterday, I found myself pulling up on the pedals as well as pushing down on them. He put me into a more aero position on the bike, after moving the bars down two spacers which felt strange as I've been sitting more upright and locking my arms out straight since my first bike fit. I have to concentrate now on not locking out my arms and keeping them bent and relaxed but it's starting to become more natural to me after years of doing it wrong. I also set a new record on my local loop yesterday despite a headwind. Feeling more comfortable, aero and stronger in the new position did it I'd say.

eeeee

Great news. Where did you go for the latest fit? Is it bike fit studio?

I have nothing useful to add!

D13exile

eeeee wrote: »

Great news. Where did you go for the latest fit? Is it bike fit studio?

I have nothing useful to add!

Yes it was. Much more in-depth fit compared to what I'd had before. Looooong session and cycling indoors on a trainer on a hot humid day while wearing a facemask was not fun but after some frustration on my part (when new saddle after saddle didn't work), he put the Fizik Argo Tempo on and hey presto, what discomfort????

magicbastarder

looks like that's a saddle for people with wider sit bones?

what other changes did he make, bar dropping the stem? any changes to saddle height?

CramCycle

First of all, great stuff

D13exile wrote: »

He advised that I consider getting new wider handlebars though as my shoulder to shoulder measurement is 44cm while my existing bars are 42cm. He said this may be contributing to my neck and shoulder pain as my arms are reaching in instead of straight ahead when on the drops, hoods etc. He also wants to put a longer stem on the bars to make me lean forward more. Has anyone else gone with wider bars on their bike? I'm sure I'm not the only one with wide shoulders?

I am possibly a voice alone on this but I have 42cm shoulders and 36cm bars, I personally think it makes jot all difference, it's what you get used too. If this rumour of bike fitters was true, people wouldn't be able to ride track bikes or MTB for long stretches.

I have to concentrate now on not locking out my arms and keeping them bent and relaxed but it's starting to become more natural to me after years of doing it wrong.

100% right here, and this alone is probably the main source of your neck and shoulder pain. Your elbows will now essentially act like shock absorbers. I hadn't realised you had your arms locked out, that alone will make a world of difference to your neck/shoulders.

magicbastarder

yeah, i suspect a difference of 1cm per shoulder is not going to make a huge difference to comfort at all.

D13exile

magicbastarder wrote: »

looks like that's a saddle for people with wider sit bones?

what other changes did he make, bar dropping the stem? any changes to saddle height?

I know and I did tell him the other fitter said I had narrower sit bones. However I don't think he put any faith in the other guy and he just did his own thing. He said I'm very flexible for my age but my pelvis is slightly twisted and my right shoulder is also slightly ahead of my left, so I'm not symmetrical. He gave me exercises to try to address these issues.

As for changes, he raised the saddle as I was rocking too much at the lower height but I think it may be a little too high now as I'm cramping in my left hamstring. He dropped the bars by two spacers as he said I was sitting too upright with a straight back instead of leaning forward. He wants to try a 120cm stem in a few weeks and suggested I get wider bars too. I think he's slowly rebuilding my bike:D

D13exile

CramCycle wrote: »

First of all, great stuff
I am possibly a voice alone on this but I have 42cm shoulders and 36cm bars, I personally think it makes jot all difference, it's what you get used too. If this rumour of bike fitters was true, people wouldn't be able to ride track bikes or MTB for long stretches.

100% right here, and this alone is probably the main source of your neck and shoulder pain. Your elbows will now essentially act like shock absorbers. I hadn't realised you had your arms locked out, that alone will make a world of difference to your neck/shoulders.

Thanks for that info. I don't really want to go to the trouble of fitting slightly wider bars (20mms) and if you get away with your set up, I think my own is sufficient. I didn't realise I was locking out my arms. Just bad habit I suppose but something the other fitter never mentioned. As my bars are now lower and the seat higher, it's making me lean forward more and he spent a lot of the session last week banging on about relaxing my arms and "engaging my core" to take weight off the arms too. Now when I go out on the bike, instead of admiring the scenery, I'm concentrating on leaning forward, relaxing my arms and "engaging my core". It's working though judging by my time yesterday.

Luxman

Did he measure your sit bones before swapping the saddle or was he experimenting on what worked and what didn't? It was the first thing I learned, measure the bones and calculate the saddle width. I have an Argo in the post too, the 140mm version however. The rounded saddle shape doesn't suit me, so I know the criteria of what I need. You will need some time with the new saddle height, to adjust, so try and be patient with it before reducing it. And only make one change at a time.

Great that you're making progress

dave_o_brien

D13exile wrote: »

Thanks for that info. I don't really want to go to the trouble of fitting slightly wider bars (20mms) and if you get away with your set up, I think my own is sufficient. I didn't realise I was locking out my arms. Just bad habit I suppose but something the other fitter never mentioned. As my bars are now lower and the seat higher, it's making me lean forward more and he spent a lot of the session last week banging on about relaxing my arms and "engaging my core" to take weight off the arms too. Now when I go out on the bike, instead of admiring the scenery, I'm concentrating on leaning forward, relaxing my arms and "engaging my core". It's working though judging by my time yesterday.

As with everything related to bike fits, your experience may differ wildly from CramCycle's and neither of you are "wrong". For me, 44cm bars are definitely more comfortable than 42cm bars. I actually have 42's on my bike currently, a vestige of my racing days where I had conditioned myself to be fine with them but think I'll change them over the next few months.

I suppose the point I'm making is that it's great that there's the resource here to get people's opinions and it's great that the recent bike fit seems to have helped but there is no substitute for your own experience and willingness to make intuitive adjustments that work for you.

CramCycle

I have a set of 44cm if you are around Dublin and want to borrow them, they are sitting in a cupboard, you can put them on without fitting and just see do they feel more comfy

MojoMaker

I moved from 42 to 44 on all my bikes - I do appreciate the marginal extra room to keep the chest 'open' and it just feels more natural for me. Plus an added benefit, especially in the winter, is the additional bar real estate for lights, head unit, and.....bell :pac:

D13exile

Just back from another 35km spin in 62minutes (he told me to keep them short until I adjust to the new saddle and position).

Well the ass still feels far far better than ever and no pressure on the squidgy bits. I feel far more “aero” In the new leaning forward position despite a 20kph headwind and I feel (or I could just be imaginings it) a lot stronger in my pedal stroke as I can power up hills seated whereas before I’d have stood (and to give my numb ass a rest).

That’s the good news. Now for the moan.............

On all four spins to date with the new saddle/position, I’ve developed a mild cramp in my left hamstring. It’s annoying more than painful. I wonder if this saddle, which is 160mm wide might be too wide? The short nose on it is working wonders for me but it might be too wide at the back restricting blood flow to the hamstring perhaps? No amount of stretching both pre and post cycle has made it go away. I was looking at the ISM range of saddles and their saddles have the cut off nose that I’d like but are slimmer than the current Fizik Argo I’m trying out. Has anyone experience of them? I’m not and never will be a triathlete but from reviews online, they appear to suit road cyclists too?

I also have a pain at the base of my skull at the neck from the new leaned forward and having to crane my head up to look ahead. Anyone else get this?

These minor whinges aside, I feel so much better out on the bike now and can concentrate on putting down the power now instead of constantly thinking my “ass/balls are killing me”. So I’m heading in the right direction.

D13exile

CramCycle wrote: »

I have a set of 44cm if you are around Dublin and want to borrow them, they are sitting in a cupboard, you can put them on without fitting and just see do they feel more comfy

Many thanks for the offer mate. I’m concentrating on getting the saddle bang on first. Once that’s sorted, I might drop you a pm about those wider bars?

joey100

You mentioned before about pulling up more on the pedal stroke with the new position, would this be a cause of the hamstring discomfort?

On the ISM saddles, they are pretty wide on the nose too, lot of triathletes will put two cable ties around the saddle rails and pull them closer when they are on the bike. They are a strange saddle and you sit on them differently than a normal road saddle. Work for some, don't work for others, bit like most saddles really! I'd give the current fit a little more time before changing things again,contact the fitter and let him now the issues with the hamstring he might be able to suggest an easy fix or let you know if it might be a saddle issue.

nilhg

D13exile wrote: »

Just back from another 35km spin in 62minutes (he told me to keep them short until I adjust to the new saddle and position).

Well the ass still feels far far better than ever and no pressure on the squidgy bits. I feel far more “aero” In the new leaning forward position despite a 20kph headwind and I feel (or I could just be imaginings it) a lot stronger in my pedal stroke as I can power up hills seated whereas before I’d have stood (and to give my numb ass a rest).

That’s the good news. Now for the moan.............

On all four spins to date with the new saddle/position, I’ve developed a mild cramp in my left hamstring. It’s annoying more than painful. I wonder if this saddle, which is 160mm wide might be too wide? The short nose on it is working wonders for me but it might be too wide at the back restricting blood flow to the hamstring perhaps? No amount of stretching both pre and post cycle has made it go away. I was looking at the ISM range of saddles and their saddles have the cut off nose that I’d like but are slimmer than the current Fizik Argo I’m trying out. Has anyone experience of them? I’m not and never will be a triathlete but from reviews online, they appear to suit road cyclists too?

I also have a pain at the base of my skull at the neck from the new leaned forward and having to crane my head up to look ahead. Anyone else get this?

These minor whinges aside, I feel so much better out on the bike now and can concentrate on putting down the power now instead of constantly thinking my “ass/balls are killing me”. So I’m heading in the right direction.

Something is working harder than it's used to, give it time.

Also a few slower spins to allow the body adjust would do no harm, it's not always productive to be flat out all the time.

Luxman

The Argo comes in a narrower version also. Specialised power saddles also come in two widths. As said you need to give the body more time to adjust before changing anything

Vincenzo Nibbly

D13exile wrote: »

On all four spins to date with the new saddle/position, I’ve developed a mild cramp in my left hamstring. It’s annoying more than painful. I wonder if this saddle, which is 160mm wide might be too wide? The short nose on it is working wonders for me but it might be too wide at the back restricting blood flow to the hamstring perhaps? No amount of stretching both pre and post cycle has made it go away. I was looking at the ISM range of saddles and their saddles have the cut off nose that I’d like but are slimmer than the current Fizik Argo I’m trying out. Has anyone experience of them? I’m not and never will be a triathlete but from reviews online, they appear to suit road cyclists too?

I also have a pain at the base of my skull at the neck from the new leaned forward and having to crane my head up to look ahead. Anyone else get this?

Give some time for neck and hamstrings to adjust to the new position. This could take a few weeks YMMV

CramCycle

Sounds like you need to just take it easy for a few days and build back up, if your cramping and you go hard again the next day, particularly in the current humidity, it will happen again in most cases. Hydrate, rest, hydrate, easy spins, hydrate and finally, hydrate.

eeeee

As others have said, sounds like you just need to give your body time to adjust to the new position. Muscles that haven't done much before now have a job to do.

On the ism saddles, I have them on all my bikes. They are very wide in front, and quite narrow at the back. They're the only saddle I can sit on but not for everybody, but a life saver for some like me.

Wildly Boaring

To add a thought

You noted that you are pulling for the first time and that this might be causing the hamstring issue.

Now I'm not an expert but I was of opinion that you're only supposed to push.

Can't remember where I saw it but essentially studies have shown that clipless makes little difference to a standard peddle stroke effeciency. You only push

D13exile

The fitter has been keeping in contact with me to see how I’m doing. I told him about the hamstring issue and his response was that he found my pelvis was slightly twisted when he examined me last week and he thinks this is the issue as one leg is working harder than the other? Have my doubts about that tbh. I also asked him about the ISM saddles and he wasn’t too keen on them. In summary he gave me about twenty different stretches to do to work on my flexibility in the spine, shoulders hips, glutes and hamstrings.

Yes it was very hot and muggy today where I live and the sweat was dripping off me. I was hydrating (and I always use the isotonic tablets in my bidon) but perhaps wasn’t drinking enough. It might be a good idea to not time the next week of spins so I won’t be racing myself. With no clock to race against, I might just ease up and take it slow for a change and see if my body adjusts and adapts to what is a completely new riding position for me after 6 years.

cletus

Out of curiosity, why do you have doubts that one leg working harder than the other could be the cause of your discomfort

nak

Luxman wrote: »

The Argo comes in a narrower version also. Specialised power saddles also come in two widths. As said you need to give the body more time to adjust before changing anything

Power saddle comes in 3 widths, relieved discomfort for me - love it.

Takes time to get used to a new position on the bike and we can all benefit from working on flexibility and strength. Everyone has a dominant leg - should have been captured during bike fit.

D13exile

cletus wrote: »

Out of curiosity, why do you have doubts that one leg working harder than the other could be the cause of your discomfort

I've never had hamstring issues prior to the new bike fit. If one leg working harder than the other had been an issue, wouldn't I have experienced leg cramps prior to now? The fitter said the data captured at the bike fit didn't show any "overstretching" on the hamstring and he said my "twisted pelvis" might be the issue. From googling last night, a saddle that's too high can also cause hamstring issues.

I'm going out on a long spin tomorrow minus the phone so I won't be timing myself. So I'll take it easy and see if a slower pace helps with the leg.

CramCycle

Its quite possible that the sudden height change is the issue and this will resolve over time, possibly.