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Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 189 ✭✭seanb85


    Hospitalisation rates in Ireland by age for confirmed cases

    0-4 - 12%
    5-14 - 5%
    15-24 - 3.8%
    25-34 - 4.5%
    35-44 - 6%
    45-54 - 9.7%
    55-64 - 15.2%
    65-74 - 32%
    75-84 - 32.3%
    85+ - 20.1%


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    I’m sorry, but you have completely failed to understand the difference between sensitivity and specificity in testing. The sensitivity is the ability of the test to accurately detect a true positive case, or the risk of false negatives and the study identified that it varies over time. The specificity is the ability of a test to identify a true negative, or the risk of false negatives and that does not vary. It’s not immediately instinctive so perhaps you should do some reading on the subject.

    Your own study you posted basically concludes these antibody surveys are useless for what the irish government tried to do. But carry on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    seanb85 wrote: »
    Hospitalisation rates in Ireland by age for confirmed cases

    0-4 - 12%
    5-14 - 5%
    15-24 - 3.8%
    25-34 - 4.5%
    35-44 - 6%
    45-54 - 9.7%
    55-64 - 15.2%
    65-74 - 32%
    75-84 - 32.3%
    85+ - 20.1%

    Where is this data from?


  • Posts: 10,049 [Deleted User]


    There is no data past 35 days. When were the samples taken for our survey.
    Also mentions doesn't detect asymptomatic, all were hospital based subjects.

    You failed to read and or understand an Author's conclusion.
    sensitivity and specificity are needed for a useful test.
    Shouldn't be used for seroprevalence surveys for public health management. as unsure of utility!
    Now stop wasting my fvcking time.



    https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD013652/epdf/full

    Yes, but the sensitivity issues within the observations are only going to impact the false negative rate. The specificity indicates the test is very good a detecting when the are no antibodies present, therefore 5% as found is not likely to be down to any significant degree of false positives.

    It is understandable how it can be confusing at times working with statistical hypothesis testing. After 15 years using in my field, if I haven’t looked at a test method validation or process qualification in some time, I do have to have to remind myself from time to time


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 Myramar


    UrbanFret wrote: »
    Good program.on channel 4 last night about the hunt for a vaccine. You'd be fairly optimistic after watching it that the Oxford university candidate will be rolled out before the end of the year. That will be the game changer. Hopefully not a black adder moment " we survived it, the great war 1914-1917"


    Just watched it - excellent called "Race against the virus Hunt for a Vaccine"


    Really shocked to hear at 11:00 minutes Luke O'Neil talking about how in Feb 2020 they were alarmed at the fact that this virus could spread asymptomatically.


    "Here we had one case initially a guy from Hong Kong and then the could follow it so they got a lot of information
    from that .....the big thing that emerged was asymptomatic spread because theyu could measure all the people, see who was positive for the
    virus and see who never had symptoms - you know? .... this asymptomatic spread made it very dangerous."


    Weeks later he was telling Ryan Tubridy that mask wearing was a waste of time unless you knew you had the disease.



    A few months later he changed his opinion about masks because We didn't know at the time that the virus could be transmitted when you are asymptomatic.


    Claims that the scientific community did not know about asymptomatic transmission of this disease way before a single case of this was detected in Ireland are totally absurd and, I suspect, the understanding that Aerosol
    Transmission was also known at the time.


    Covid 19 might be a new virus but water droplets expelled by coughing and sneezing are not new at all.


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  • Posts: 10,049 [Deleted User]


    Myramar wrote: »
    Just watched it - excellent called "Race against the virus Hunt for a Vaccine"


    Really shocked to hear at 11:00 minutes Luke O'Neil talking about how in Feb 2020 they were alarmed at the fact that this virus could spread asymptomatically.


    "Here we had one case initially a guy from Hong Kong and then the could follow it so they got a lot of information
    from that .....the big thing that emerged was asymptomatic spread because theyu could measure all the people, see who was positive for the
    virus and see who never had symptoms - you know? .... this asymptomatic spread made it very dangerous."


    Weeks later he was telling Ryan Tubridy that mask wearing was a waste of time unless you knew you had the disease.



    A few months later he changed his opinion about masks because We didn't know at the time that the virus could be transmitted when you are asymptomatic.


    Claims that the scientific community did not know about asymptomatic transmission of this disease way before a single case of this was detected in Ireland are totally absurd and, I suspect, the understanding that Aerosol
    Transmission was also known at the time.


    Covid 19 might be a new virus but water droplets expelled by coughing and sneezing are not new at all.

    Droplets being the key word
    https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Just been thinking of the no deaths for a few days.

    I wonder is that anything to do with more people wearing masks and even though people are still getting infected, has it been reducing the viral load and so maybe you don't get things as bad?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Just been thinking of the no deaths for a few days.

    I wonder is that anything to do with more people wearing masks and even though people are still getting infected, has it been reducing the viral load and so maybe you don't get things as bad?

    It's more to do with the fact that younger people are getting it now and it's not nearly as lethal to those than the older cohort.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 10,049 [Deleted User]


    Just been thinking of the no deaths for a few days.

    I wonder is that anything to do with more people wearing masks and even though people are still getting infected, has it been reducing the viral load and so maybe you don't get things as bad?

    More than likely the age profile of confirmed cases and the detection rate being far higher, meaning for example we may have been detecting 30 cases to every 1 death in March, and missing 100. Now we may be detecting 100 cases for every death, but only missing 50. Numbers are selected for illustration purposes only, but make the point.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 Myramar


    Just been thinking of the no deaths for a few days.

    I wonder is that anything to do with more people wearing masks and even though people are still getting infected, has it been reducing the viral load and so maybe you don't get things as bad?


    Too early. Age Profile. Numbers infected still miles lower that they were in June etc., TG

    You will never see any solid evidence of the effect of Masks any more than you will see evidence that hand washing or social distancing works.
    We don't need to see evidence - Only an idiot would question whether all these things help.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭flanna01


    The poor ould publicans prevented from opening their water holes again...

    Fair point they make... Why are they being restricted from making a living?

    Oh yeah... Drunk people can't social distance.

    My afternoon today:

    Went shopping at a major high street superstore. Some staff waltzing in and out between the masked up shoppers had no face coverings on at all. Also duly noted - every isle had a meeting point consisting of the local hags exchanging all the gossip (be it true or false was irrelevant).

    Off to the bookies then to make my fortune - Again, social distancing a chinese proverb yet to be deciphered... No law and order here. Even had the unpleasant experience of a degenerate gambler pushing in front of me to make the next race..

    Finally, off to the car dealership to collect something... And guess what?? A bunch of (I assume) mechanics sitting around a table that Tom Thumb would struggle to be seated at.

    There are numerous examples at every cross and turn of workmen / employee's flouting the Covid stipulations..

    But we still pinpoint the poor Landlord who has spent a ball of money on social distancing in his bar - As being unfit to keep law & order... Without even giving him a chance!

    So unfair / So wrong!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Yes, but the sensitivity issues within the observations are only going to impact the false negative rate. The specificity indicates the test is very good a detecting when the are no antibodies present, therefore 5% as found is not likely to be down to any significant degree of false positives.

    It is understandable how it can be confusing at times working with statistical hypothesis testing. After 15 years using in my field, if I haven’t looked at a test method validation or process qualification in some time, I do have to have to remind myself from time to time

    With all due respect. This is quite important.
    We all have a responsibility to prevent the spread of misinformation.
    I had to take the time to read it. Time I don't have.
    A poster got shot down when in fact they were accurate , not fair.


    I don't want people to be confused and think that 5% of the population had this when there is no evidence they did.
    I don't want people to think the main stream media are trying to control their life by cherry picking parts of academic papers and misquoting the significance of the papers.

    So you agree they are of no use in public health currently in accordance with.....
    • the two different experts who commented to the journalists in two different newspaper?.
    • the authors of the meta study and their conclusions in the paper you referenced?

    https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD013652/epdf/full
    How reliable were the results of the studies of this review?
    Our confidence in the evidence is limited for several reasons.

    In general, studies were small, did not use the most reliable methods and did not report their results fully.

    Often, they did not include patients with COVID-19 who may have had a false negative result on PCR,
    and took their data for people without COVID-19 from records of tests done before COVID-19 arose. This may have affected test accuracy, but it is impossible to identify by how much.

    Who do the results of this review apply to?

    Most participants were in hospital with COVID-19, so were likely to have more severe disease than people with mild symptoms who were not hospitalised. This means that we don't know how accurate antibody tests are for people with milder disease or no symptoms.

    More than half of the studies assessed tests they had developed themselves, most of which are not available to buy. Many studies were published quickly online as ‘preprints’. Preprints do not undergo the normal rigorous checks of published studies, so we are not certain how reliable they are.
    As most studies took place in Asia, we don't know whether test results would be similar elsewhere in the world.
    What are the implications of this review?

    The review shows that antibody tests could have a useful role in detecting if someone has had COVID-19, but the timing of when the tests are used is important. Antibody tests may help to confirm COVID-19 infection in people who have had symptoms for more than two weeks and do not have a RT-PCR test, or have negative RT-PCR test results.
    The tests are better at detecting COVID-19 in people two or more weeks after their symptoms started, but we do not know how well they work more than five weeks after symptoms started.
    We do not know how well the tests work for people who have milder disease or no symptoms, because the studies in the review were mainly done in people who were in hospital.
    In time, we will learn whether having previously had COVID-19 provides individuals with immunity to future infection.
    Further research is needed into the use of antibody tests in people recovering from COVID-19 infection, and in people who have experienced mild symptoms or who never experienced symptoms.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Was out at a match tonight so missed the numbers. Low community transmission again. These clusters are very interesting though, especially Wexford, who have barely had a case in the last while.

    Analysis of cases as of midnight Monday 3rd August - 26,255 cases (+46)

    Healthcare Workers +4
    Clusters +2
    Cases associated with clusters +41

    Age Range Affected
    0-4 +1
    5-14 No Change
    15-24 +7
    25-34 +18
    35-44 +9
    45-54 +7
    55-64 +3
    65-74 No Change
    75-84 +1
    85+ No Change

    Cases by County
    Cavan +2
    Cork +1
    Dublin +8
    Kildare +33
    Laois +1
    Sligo +1
    Westmeath +1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Santy2015


    Was out at a match tonight so missed the numbers. Low community transmission again. These clusters are very interesting though, especially Wexford, who have barely had a case in the last while.

    Analysis of cases as of midnight Monday 3rd August - 26,255 cases (+46)

    Healthcare Workers +4
    Clusters +2
    Cases associated with clusters +41

    Age Range Affected
    0-4 +1
    5-14 No Change
    15-24 +7
    25-34 +18
    35-44 +9
    45-54 +7
    55-64 +3
    65-74 No Change
    75-84 +1
    85+ No Change

    Cases by County
    Cavan +2
    Cork +1
    Dublin +8
    Kildare +33
    Laois +1
    Sligo +1
    Westmeath +1

    That Kildare cluster is scandalous


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Santy2015 wrote: »
    That Kildare cluster is scandalous
    that's an understatement. In the last 9 days Kildare has had 116 cases.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    Serious questions have to be asked of the management of that factory. It's a disgrace and has obviously been mismanaged to the extreme.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,198 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Serious questions have to be asked of the management of that factory. It's a disgrace and has obviously been mismanaged to the extreme.

    Possibly a result of their living conditions and their adherence to health advice, social distancing at home etc. as much as conditions in the plant .


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭Ineedaname


    Serious questions have to be asked of the management of that factory. It's a disgrace and has obviously been mismanaged to the extreme.

    Was talking to a guy in work today. Turns out he had some friends that worked there. He showed me a few videos.

    Let's just say it was never a case of if but when.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    Ineedaname wrote: »
    Was talking to a guy in work today. Turns out he had some friends that worked there. He showed me a few videos.

    Let's just say it was never a case of if but when.

    We're they standing next to each other,brushing shoulders.. They should all be jailed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    One thing Covid is doing is bringing to public attention the conditions for what are effectively the under classes at the foundation of our society. Zero hours short term contracts, no sick pay, no security, least pay possible without the bosses looking like utter bollixes. There are no outbreaks in financial institutions or the big tech companies.


  • Posts: 10,049 [Deleted User]


    flanna01 wrote: »
    The poor ould publicans prevented from opening their water holes again...

    Fair point they make... Why are they being restricted from making a living?

    Oh yeah... Drunk people can't social distance.

    My afternoon today:

    Went shopping at a major high street superstore. Some staff waltzing in and out between the masked up shoppers had no face coverings on at all. Also duly noted - every isle had a meeting point consisting of the local hags exchanging all the gossip (be it true or false was irrelevant).

    Off to the bookies then to make my fortune - Again, social distancing a chinese proverb yet to be deciphered... No law and order here. Even had the unpleasant experience of a degenerate gambler pushing in front of me to make the next race..

    Finally, off to the car dealership to collect something... And guess what?? A bunch of (I assume) mechanics sitting around a table that Tom Thumb would struggle to be seated at.

    There are numerous examples at every cross and turn of workmen / employee's flouting the Covid stipulations..

    But we still pinpoint the poor Landlord who has spent a ball of money on social distancing in his bar - As being unfit to keep law & order... Without even giving him a chance!

    So unfair / So wrong!!

    Any interaction observed for 15 minutes at less than 2 metres? And the 4 mechanics could be within in the same contact tracing group.

    Are all women bags and all men degenerate in your book?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Possibly a result of their living conditions and their adherence to health advice, social distancing at home etc. as much as conditions in the plant .

    Their living conditions are directly related to their terms and conditions of employment at the plant. Directly. As in 100% directly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭almostover


    flanna01 wrote: »
    The poor ould publicans prevented from opening their water holes again...

    Fair point they make... Why are they being restricted from making a living?

    Oh yeah... Drunk people can't social distance.

    My afternoon today:

    Went shopping at a major high street superstore. Some staff waltzing in and out between the masked up shoppers had no face coverings on at all. Also duly noted - every isle had a meeting point consisting of the local hags exchanging all the gossip (be it true or false was irrelevant).

    Off to the bookies then to make my fortune - Again, social distancing a chinese proverb yet to be deciphered... No law and order here. Even had the unpleasant experience of a degenerate gambler pushing in front of me to make the next race..

    Finally, off to the car dealership to collect something... And guess what?? A bunch of (I assume) mechanics sitting around a table that Tom Thumb would struggle to be seated at.

    There are numerous examples at every cross and turn of workmen / employee's flouting the Covid stipulations..

    But we still pinpoint the poor Landlord who has spent a ball of money on social distancing in his bar - As being unfit to keep law & order... Without even giving him a chance!

    So unfair / So wrong!!

    If you think those examples are bad then drunks in a pub haven't a chance of following social distancing guidelines. I genuinely feel sorry for publicans, they've lost their livelihoods. But until the general public begin to take the pandemic guidlines more seriously then pubs won't be opening


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Serious questions have to be asked of the management of that factory. It's a disgrace and has obviously been mismanaged to the extreme.

    Fully agree, the management have a lot to answer for in those cases. So do the people turning up to work sick though. There is absolutely no excuse for turning up unwell in the middle of a pandemic.
    Shows how poor the measures put in place by that company were to allow it as well.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    141 cases in the last 3 days and 13 defined as community transmission in the NPHET press releases.

    Yet, Donnelly? :confused:
    Covid-19 community transmission 'across country', says Donnelly
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0805/1157374-covid-19-restrictions/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    141 cases in the last 3 days and 13 defined as community transmission in the NPHET press releases.

    Yet, Donnelly? :confused:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0805/1157374-covid-19-restrictions/

    It's clear that's the "message" to get out there though. He's not flying solo when making comments like that.

    I'm confused as to what their strategy is being honest. I'm sure NPHET would love to go for the ZeroCovid approach but it's a bonkers strategy with open borders and people from all over the world free to travel here on a whim. The government are stuck between two trains of thought right now and it's not doing any of use any good.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



This discussion has been closed.
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