How will schools be able to go back in September?

joe40 · 28-07-2020 12:34AM

Risteard81 wrote: »

Stupid gas masks preventing people from breathing freely all day is not something to support. In fact it is an utterly criminal suggestion.

There is absolutely no evidence that these stupid gas masks are a good idea - it's merely the State trying to pretend that it's doing something, even when that something is a nonsense.

I'm not sure masks would work in schools since they may be misused, but they do not stop you breathing properly, and there is evidence they work.

Why would the WHO recommend them otherwise.

khalessi · 28-07-2020 12:34AM

KerryConnor wrote: »

Yeah that's true. don't know the whole things a total headwreck but just seems less risky at primary if we are forced to balance things.
Suppose secondary kids can make their own way home etc so it's less disruptive too, shouldn't be making our decision s like that but it would make it easier.

Yep it is a headwreck and according to that study even if forced there is the same risk in the senior end of primary school as secondary. Whether children can make their way home is not the issue for having safe schools

Icyseanfitz · 28-07-2020 12:36AM

gnf_ireland wrote: »

You can - will be interesting to hear what the unions have to say in that case! If they don't agree with it, I am sure they will make their concerns known quickly enough

The Union's are hoping parents have enough sense to see how crazy this 'plan' is and become vocal, in doing so avoid being demonized even more. It's not safe, is it even in line with who guidelines

Peter Flynt · 28-07-2020 12:38AM

gnf_ireland wrote: »

Not disagreeing with you, but does make a mockery of this line from the letter quoted above

The plan has been developed by consulting with those who know best how schools
run: representatives of students, parents, principals, teachers, SNAs, support staff and
school management bodies, and. Their expertise has been crucial in putting this
together and I am very grateful to all involved for their hard work over many weeks.

That's complete rubbish.

Code for . . . It's not me doing this - Look who else supports me.

Loafing Oaf · 28-07-2020 12:45AM

joe40 wrote: »

Why would the WHO recommend them otherwise.

Surely you know the so-called "WHO" (who? indeed) are controlled by our shape-shifting lizard overlords? WAKE UP SHEEPLE! This whole so-called "pandemic" is a MASSIVE HOAX!

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 28-07-2020 12:49AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

The Union's are hoping parents have enough sense to see how crazy this 'plan' is and become vocal, in doing so avoid being demonized even more. It's not safe, is it even in line with who guidelines

AFAIK unions and NAPD along with lots of other stakeholders mentioned earlier have been involved in the consultation process.

Surprisingly Unions have already said they welcomed the plan and are optimistic about it. A few issues they need to work through on vulnerable staff and students but otherwise consensus seems to be positive.

s1ippy · 28-07-2020 12:50AM

Personally only VFT consulted any teaching staff I know.

Icyseanfitz · 28-07-2020 12:54AM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

AFAIK unions and NAPD along with lots of other stakeholders mentioned earlier have been involved in the consultation process.

Surprisingly Unions have already said they welcomed the plan and are optimistic about it. A few issues they need to work through on vulnerable staff and students but otherwise consensus seems to be positive.

Any union that values it's members safety to any degree would look at that 'plan' and throw a wobbler, as I said they are playing the game in hopes that the public start giving out.

Mossie1975 · 28-07-2020 05:11AM

gnf_ireland wrote: »

From what I have seen in Dublin, plenty of the camps are indoors. One of mine has been to a LEGO camp and that was fully indoors. She also is back doing swimming lessons at this point.

Good few indoor Summer camps at the local schools here too. Great to see the kids having a great time. Think it will help with the return to school as they will have practiced some of the safety procedures before schools reopen.

xhomelezz · 28-07-2020 07:11AM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

AFAIK unions and NAPD along with lots of other stakeholders mentioned earlier have been involved in the consultation process.

Surprisingly Unions have already said they welcomed the plan and are optimistic about it. A few issues they need to work through on vulnerable staff and students but otherwise consensus seems to be positive.

Few issues?? That plan is riddled with issues. I feel sorry for teachers at this stage.

gifted · 28-07-2020 07:19AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Any union that values it's members safety to any degree would look at that 'plan' and throw a wobbler, as I said they are playing the game in hopes that the public start giving out.

It seems that the unions have got a lot of contracts for a lot of teachers out of these talks and they're happy with that.....the safety aspect can be reflected back onto the government.

average_runner · 28-07-2020 08:14AM

2 kids, one going to 2nd class and the other 4th class.

Guidelines are not too bad. Only big question I have, will each school be allocated a GP.
Our school was designed pretty well to deal with this as all entrances to the classroom are directly from the yard.
We were with our GP two weeks ago and he said there is no way he cant test everyone that comes in with a temp, won't have the capacity to do it.

Down the country and traveling on buses is another issue

mirrorwall14 · 28-07-2020 08:21AM

I’m laughing at this in the examiner

Gyms, libraries, music rooms and science rooms — as well as halls in nearby community buildings — will be used to ensure all students can return;

I’m not sure what school the minister worked in but we don’t have a library, the music room
Is full for all bar 3 periods of the week, the science labs are used as classrooms. We offer leaving cert PE so what do they do without the hall? Which I might add is already timetabled for 2-3 PE classes at a time. FFS our photocopying room and two small offices were turned into small classrooms last year because we are bursting at the seams. I have no idea how we are going to drop our class sizes to 24 in our buildings. And then it’s a 10-15 minutes walk to the nearest alternative spaces (assuming it is available)

I do not envy our management. It’s going to be insane organising this

Boggles · 28-07-2020 08:22AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

No plan to close schools with suspected Covid cases - Bring them to a room instead.

They have catered for the many schools who just won't have spare room.

The isolation area does not have to be a room but if it is not a room it should be 2m away from others in the room;

Leave them in the classroom, be grand.

Remember that the virus is spread by droplets and is not airborne so physical separation is enough to reduce the risk of spread to others even if they are in the same room

Terrifying.

average_runner · 28-07-2020 08:24AM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m laughing at this in the examiner

Gyms, libraries, music rooms and science rooms — as well as halls in nearby community buildings — will be used to ensure all students can return;

I’m not sure what school the minister worked in but we don’t have a library, the music room
Is full for all bar 3 periods of the week, the science labs are used as classrooms. We offer leaving cert PE so what do they do without the hall? Which I might add is already timetabled for 2-3 PE classes at a time. FFS our photocopying room and two small offices were turned into small classrooms last year because we are bursting at the seams. I have no idea how we are going to drop our class sizes to 24 in our buildings. And then it’s a 10-15 minutes walk to the nearest alternative spaces (assuming it is available)

I do not envy our management. It’s going to be insane organising this

Portacabins will be brought in.

mirrorwall14 · 28-07-2020 08:28AM

average_runner wrote: »

Portacabins will be brought in.

There aren’t any available in the country and it takes about six months to install them. We have four weeks....

Dravokivich · 28-07-2020 08:30AM

average_runner wrote: »

Portacabins will be brought in.

Thats worked so well for the last 30 years!

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

There aren’t any available in the country and it takes about six months to install them. We have four weeks....

I don't think he meant it.

average_runner · 28-07-2020 08:32AM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

There aren’t any available in the country and it takes about six months to install them. We have four weeks....

Temporary ones can be installed within a week. Availability I don't know

average_runner · 28-07-2020 08:33AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Thats worked so well for the last 30 years!

I don't think he meant it.

Try 40 years

Lillyfae · 28-07-2020 08:38AM

I just don't understand half the people on this thread.

Previously it was: "they won't give us the money for soap and hot water" but now that there's €375,000,000 earmarked it's "but there's no masks". Posts a few weeks ago were bemoaning the fact that that the pubs were going to be open before the schools, now they're more along the lines of how can the schools go back when it's not safe to open the pubs.

There's a real opportunity here to upgrade the schools in a way that was never possible before. To finally staff buildings adequately. From what I gather, not all schools will require upgrading thankfully, so the money will be shared amongst those that are most in need. The ball is firmly in the court of the Boards of Management and the principals now to start doing the work that needs to be done. This is where months of preparation would have come in very handy indeed. If a school's management can't, er, manage then they're not the right people for the job.

As a side note, I have a suspicion that sub teachers will (rightly) be centrally sourced and then deployed as necessary when needed for sick cover. This would be the most prudent way to manage it, but I would imagine the Unions not getting on board with it.

iamwhoiam · 28-07-2020 08:48AM

average_runner wrote: »

2 kids, one going to 2nd class and the other 4th class.

Guidelines are not too bad. Only big question I have, will each school be allocated a GP.
Our school was designed pretty well to deal with this as all entrances to the classroom are directly from the yard.
We were with our GP two weeks ago and he said there is no way he cant test everyone that comes in with a temp, won't have the capacity to do it.

Down the country and traveling on buses is another issue

The GP doesn’t do the testing ? He referres the patient for testing in a test centre

average_runner · 28-07-2020 08:52AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The GP doesn’t do the testing ? He referres the patient for testing in a test centre

GP's are now starting to do the tests on cases where kids that have temps.
Our kid had a temp but it was for a throat infection.

Alot of centres are gone.

Even the nurses in the A&E are doing the tests on all patients, this wasn't the way 6 weeks ago.

is_that_so · 28-07-2020 08:53AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I just don't understand half the people on this thread.

Previously it was: "they won't give us the money for soap and hot water" but now that there's €375,000,000 earmarked it's "but there's no masks". Posts a few weeks ago were bemoaning the fact that that the pubs were going to be open before the schools, now they're more along the lines of how can the schools go back when it's not safe to open the pubs.

There's a real opportunity here to upgrade the schools in a way that was never possible before. To finally staff buildings adequately. From what I gather, not all schools will require upgrading thankfully, so the money will be shared amongst those that are most in need. The ball is firmly in the court of the Boards of Management and the principals now to start doing the work that needs to be done. This is where months of preparation would have come in very handy indeed. If a school's management can't, er, manage then they're not the right people for the job.

As a side note, I have a suspicion that sub teachers will (rightly) be centrally sourced and then deployed as necessary when needed for sick cover. This would be the most prudent way to manage it, but I would imagine the Unions not getting on board with it.

I think there are an awful lot of questions about the how. Having a huge cheque will not necessarily get anything done. It will need to be full speed ahead from now on. Even at that there are no guarantees as there is a sense that it's like turning the first sod on a project you need to get done in four weeks. As for masks there is a lot of personal projection onto children. They really should not be in primary schools if at all possible. I agree with idea of not having them in secondary but that IMO needs more flexibility. If we can't do that there's a whole generation of neurotic germophobes coming our way.

iamwhoiam · 28-07-2020 08:53AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I just don't understand half the people on this thread.

Previously it was: "they won't give us the money for soap and hot water" but now that there's €375,000,000 earmarked it's "but there's no masks". Posts a few weeks ago were bemoaning the fact that that the pubs were going to be open before the schools, now they're more along the lines of how can the schools go back when it's not safe to open the pubs.

There's a real opportunity here to upgrade the schools in a way that was never possible before. To finally staff buildings adequately. From what I gather, not all schools will require upgrading thankfully, so the money will be shared amongst those that are most in need. The ball is firmly in the court of the Boards of Management and the principals now to start doing the work that needs to be done. This is where months of preparation would have come in very handy indeed. If a school's management can't, er, manage then they're not the right people for the job.

As a side note, I have a suspicion that sub teachers will (rightly) be centrally sourced and then deployed as necessary when needed for sick cover. This would be the most prudent way to manage it, but I would imagine the Unions not getting on board with it.

Its great to see the money allocated . My only gripe would be that it should have been done months sooner . Leaving it till now has put management under pressure to actually find someone to do the work
In an ideal world a task force should have been set up on March 13th and plans made and in place by beginning of May .

28-07-2020 08:55AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I just don't understand half the people on this thread.

Previously it was: "they won't give us the money for soap and hot water" but now that there's €375,000,000 earmarked it's "but there's no masks". Posts a few weeks ago were bemoaning the fact that that the pubs were going to be open before the schools, now they're more along the lines of how can the schools go back when it's not safe to open the pubs.

There's a real opportunity here to upgrade the schools in a way that was never possible before. To finally staff buildings adequately. From what I gather, not all schools will require upgrading thankfully, so the money will be shared amongst those that are most in need. The ball is firmly in the court of the Boards of Management and the principals now to start doing the work that needs to be done. This is where months of preparation would have come in very handy indeed. If a school's management can't, er, manage then they're not the right people for the job.

As a side note, I have a suspicion that sub teachers will (rightly) be centrally sourced and then deployed as necessary when needed for sick cover. This would be the most prudent way to manage it, but I would imagine the Unions not getting on board with it.

The issue is a lot of the teachers want to be paid for doing nothing, so they'll piss and moan any way.
They're the most self entitled bunch you'll ever meet.

iamwhoiam · 28-07-2020 08:55AM

average_runner wrote: »

GP's are now starting to do the tests on cases where kids that have temps.
Our kid had a temp but it was for a throat infection.

Alot of centres are gone.

Even the nurses in the A&E are doing the tests on all patients, this wasn't the way 6 weeks ago.

I didn’t realise that thank you

sideswipe · 28-07-2020 08:55AM

In positive news the country is in a very good place in terms of case numbers even after opening up to the extent it has. There are only a handful of people in hospital with Covid at the moment and active cases are stable. I know that is subject to change but compared to most countries we are in a pretty enviable position, lets hope this time next month remains the same.

Back to school will be a moving target in that only by going back can individual schools and BOM's really work out a workable solutions that suit their individual needs. These are strange and unusual times, there is no perfect solution.
Where I live there has been very low infection rates so I believe the risk to local school reopening is lower, I suppose I'd feel different if I was in Dublin where, lets be honest, the majority of cases have been located (because of population density).

I'm not a teacher so don't know the in's and out's of potential issues with the road map. I do think the more serious issues will be at secondary level were a classroom of pupils is basically a room of adults.

downthemiddle · 28-07-2020 08:56AM

Having read the document and having had time to digest it I’m left with more questions than answers. If it is safe to reopen schools in this manner it really begs the question why they were closed in the first place. Why hasn’t there been a full reopening of Irish society? Why are pubs closed? Why is the Dail sitting in the conference centre?
Students have to wear masks on the bus to school, they have to wear masks when they go to the shops, what transformation occurs when they enter a school building?
The area of substitute cover in primary schools is a major concern. There are six supply panels to cover all of Dublin, one of which apparently is in Arklow. Two of these panels already existed. Three new panels for Dublin while there are five new panels for Cork. What happens in areas like Balbriggan, Dublin 15, Swords, Lucan, Clondalkin and Tallaght if a teacher is sick? Who covers the class? What becomes of the pod?
There is a paragraph on how to wash toys with particular reference to them being covered in bodily fluids. I’m sure every infant teacher in the country is enlightened by this revelation.
This is a morally bankrupt document. It will,inevitably, lead to the closure of schools again. I fear it will also lead to casualties within the education system. What price are we prepared to pay as a society?
If this document is the answer we have asked the wrong question.

khalessi · 28-07-2020 08:57AM

sideswipe wrote: »

I'm not a teacher so don't know the in's and out's of potential issues with the road map. I do think the more serious issues will be at secondary level were a classroom of pupils is basically a room of adults.

Those same problems are there for 4th 5th and 6th, that has been mentioned a few times here.

sideswipe · 28-07-2020 08:58AM

average_runner wrote: »

GP's are now starting to do the tests on cases where kids that have temps.
Our kid had a temp but it was for a throat infection.

Alot of centres are gone.

Even the nurses in the A&E are doing the tests on all patients, this wasn't the way 6 weeks ago.

Are kids tests the same as adults i.e. long Q Tip up the nose to scrape the back of the throat?

I'd have to sedate or strap down our 9yr old to do that one!!

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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