Tenet (Christopher Nolan) spoilers from post 475

peteeeed · 26-06-2020 9:56am

due to the spike in the US its been delayed till august 12th

Snake Plisken · 26-06-2020 12:11pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I'd argue that it's within the margins legitimate discussion can be made about Nolan's relative skills: that while his CV shows a clear cinematic and epic vision, Nolan's biggest blindspot can be said to be around his films' emotions. Or lack thereof.

Of all his work, my favourite by far remains The Prestige, and thinking on it feels like the one film that felt properly alive & vital. A story of obsession and jealousy threaded within the mechanism of Nolan's usual cinematic eccentricity; that emotional intensity jumped off its characters & story giving it a pulse. The rest of Nolans features however, while spectacular, beautiful and often intellectually substantive, can feel very hollow or cold. Sometimes bordering on mechanical.

Dunkirk is the perfect example of the above: as a purely intellectual exercise the film was a fantastic twist of structure, and - as is standard - a bloody gorgeous feature to boot. But it was dead inside, I didn't care about the "characters" beyond the immediacy of the peril. Even Interstellar, a film that arguably tried to suggest Love was the most powerful force in the universe, had that emptiness because the sentiment came felt declarative, rather than raw.

I disagree some of my most emotional movie viewing is from watching Nolan's movies I watched Interstellar and the scenes with young and old Murph still make me teary eyed as do the scenes with Alberts speech at the graveside in The Dark Knight Rises Batman Begins for being so epic brought me tears of joy that someone had finally made a Batman/Superhero movie we all wanted and some great emotional scenes between Cobb and his Mrs and their Kids same with The Prestige, but Dunkirk Memento and Insomnia less. It's usually the parent child relationships in his movies that he focuses his emotional gut punches around IMHO.

Theboinkmaster · 26-06-2020 4:08pm

peteeeed wrote: »

due to the spike in the US its been delayed till august 12th

They’ll need a lot more than a few weeks to fix cv19 in the US...

p to the e · 26-06-2020 5:14pm

peteeeed wrote: »

due to the spike in the US its been delayed till august 12th

What year?

MfMan · 26-06-2020 10:00pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I'd argue that it's within the margins legitimate discussion can be made about Nolan's relative skills: that while his CV shows a clear cinematic and epic vision, Nolan's biggest blindspot can be said to be around his films' emotions. Or lack thereof.

Of all his work, my favourite by far remains The Prestige, and thinking on it feels like the one film that felt properly alive & vital. A story of obsession and jealousy threaded within the mechanism of Nolan's usual cinematic eccentricity; that emotional intensity jumped off its characters & story giving it a pulse. The rest of Nolans features however, while spectacular, beautiful and often intellectually substantive, can feel very hollow or cold. Sometimes bordering on mechanical.

Dunkirk is the perfect example of the above: as a purely intellectual exercise the film was a fantastic twist of structure, and - as is standard - a bloody gorgeous feature to boot. But it was dead inside, I didn't care about the "characters" beyond the immediacy of the peril. Even Interstellar, a film that arguably tried to suggest Love was the most powerful force in the universe, had that emptiness because the sentiment came felt declarative, rather than raw.

Agree substantially with this. Nolan spends so much time making technically excellent movies that he forgets for the most part the human/emotional element. A Scorcese with added special effects if you will. I couldn't follow Interstellar much however due to it's main star's unwillingness to deliver his lines in anything like a comprehensible fashion.

Having just watched the Tenet trailer with it's whole time/inversion thingamajig I just hope it's not going to be as exceedingly silly as Inception.

expectationlost · 27-06-2020 3:49pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I'd argue that it's within the margins legitimate discussion can be made about Nolan's relative skills: that while his CV shows a clear cinematic and epic vision, Nolan's biggest blindspot can be said to be around his films' emotions. Or lack thereof.

lack of emotions? but but love found a way in Interstellar :P

Sad Professor · 27-06-2020 4:32pm

It's something that he has to work hard at but I wouldn't say Nolan's films lack emotion. I would say that the emotions in his films all tend to be based on overly familiar and repeated themes - dead wives being the big one, though he has tried to move away from that in recent years. Dunkirk with its ensemble of unknown and character actors also revealed that he relies a lot on his A-list movie stars to push him to develop his films's emotional elements.

Nolan is over-due a critical bashing. Maybe Tenet will be it. All auteurs basically make the same film over and over again and once critics start to predict what they are going to do their days of being a critical darling are done. Nolan has avoided this for longer than most due to having grown and developed as a director but one can only grow so much.

flasher0030 · 28-06-2020 11:53am

Sad Professor wrote: »

It's something that he has to work hard at but I wouldn't say Nolan's films lack emotion. I would say that the emotions in his films all tend to be based on overly familiar and repeated themes - dead wives being the big one, though he has tried to move away from that in recent years. Dunkirk with its ensemble of unknown and character actors also revealed that he relies a lot on his A-list movie stars to push him to develop his films's emotional elements.

Nolan is over-due a critical bashing. Maybe Tenet will be it. All auteurs basically make the same film over and over again and once critics start to predict what they are going to do their days of being a critical darling are done. Nolan has avoided this for longer than most due to having grown and developed as a director but one can only grow so much.

Why is he overdue a critical bashing. His last 5 films were:
The Dark Knight
Inception
The Dark Knight Rises
Interstellar
Dunkirk

I haven't seen Dunkirk. But the other 4 are excellent.

peteeeed · 28-06-2020 2:04pm

Dunkirk is great too

johnny_ultimate · 28-06-2020 2:24pm

Interstellar is the film that broke the Nolan spell for me, although honestly I think it was also just at a point when my own tastes had shifted a bit. There’s a lot to admire about Interstellar in terms of its sounds and visuals, but the overwrought storytelling and the messy, unsatisfying editing really lost me. When I revisit his earlier work I can definitely see some of that there too - he definitely brute forces his films to where he wants them to be dramatically or thematically, and sometimes those seams are all too apparent. Long stretches of his films - like much of the third act of TDKR - feel like very, very long montages, and he relies on his music composers to do too much heavy lifting in keeping things together.

I still really like most of his films, mind you. I wish Hollywood had more directors like him, who were given large amounts of many to make unique, idiosyncratic and often high-concept movies. Also admire him for making films that are stubbornly designed for big screen consumption. But I don’t look forward to his films any more in the way I look forward to a new Rian Johnson film (to use a mainstream filmmaker I greatly admire). Even just sticking to blockbusters I’d easily rate Mad Max: Fury Road, Mission Impossible Fallout or Into The Spiderverse above most of the last couple of Nolan films, strong as Dunkirk was. And if I was making a list of my favourite working directors, he’d definitely be a fair bit down the list. Ultimately I think cinema is a better place with Christopher Nolan making the films he’s making, but I just don’t feel that same thrill or anticipation about his upcoming movies as I did five or six years ago.

Still, if nothing else, would definitely rather Tenet is the film that’ll be the first big tent pole release for reopening cinemas, rather than yet another Marvel movie or Disney remake. Just wish we didn’t have to rely on a single director to deliver the big, serious-minded, non-franchise event movies every couple of years.

flasher0030 · 29-06-2020 2:05pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Interstellar is the film that broke the Nolan spell for me, although honestly I think it was also just at a point when my own tastes had shifted a bit. There’s a lot to admire about Interstellar in terms of its sounds and visuals, but the overwrought storytelling and the messy, unsatisfying editing really lost me. When I revisit his earlier work I can definitely see some of that there too - he definitely brute forces his films to where he wants them to be dramatically or thematically, and sometimes those seams are all too apparent. Long stretches of his films - like much of the third act of TDKR - feel like very, very long montages, and he relies on his music composers to do too much heavy lifting in keeping things together.

I still really like most of his films, mind you. I wish Hollywood had more directors like him, who were given large amounts of many to make unique, idiosyncratic and often high-concept movies. Also admire him for making films that are stubbornly designed for big screen consumption. But I don’t look forward to his films any more in the way I look forward to a new Rian Johnson film (to use a mainstream filmmaker I greatly admire). Even just sticking to blockbusters I’d easily rate Mad Max: Fury Road, Mission Impossible Fallout or Into The Spiderverse above most of the last couple of Nolan films, strong as Dunkirk was. And if I was making a list of my favourite working directors, he’d definitely be a fair bit down the list. Ultimately I think cinema is a better place with Christopher Nolan making the films he’s making, but I just don’t feel that same thrill or anticipation about his upcoming movies as I did five or six years ago.

Still, if nothing else, would definitely rather Tenet is the film that’ll be the first big tent pole release for reopening cinemas, rather than yet another Marvel movie or Disney remake. Just wish we didn’t have to rely on a single director to deliver the big, serious-minded, non-franchise event movies every couple of years.

I just got around to watching Mad Max last night. I wasn't largely entertained by it. The action and the setpieces were well done, but the story was just one big chase across a desert-type area for 2 hours. Same thing over and over again. Tom Hardy is a great actor, but in this he just mumbles a couple of lines throughout the whole film. MI Fallout is enjoyable.

peteeeed · 07-07-2020 10:08am

https://www.tenetfilm.com/
an audio experience ?

bnt · 10-07-2020 5:15pm

There's a new interview with Elizabeth Debicki here: she's sworn to secrecy on the plot, but does say that her character is the estranged wife of Kenneth Branagh's character.

While he would never give away anything about the plot (we tried), Nolan will say that he believes Debicki pulled off an incredibly challenging role. “It’s a very difficult character because she has to be extremely vulnerable and put upon, and yet there has to be this strength, this depth, these reserves that come forward,” he allows. “I think that’s very difficult for an actor to pull off without resorting to the unrealistic or resting on the simplistic version of the character arc. She finds a way to play vulnerability and strength at the same time, which is very human and very real.”

For her part, Debicki refuses to confirm or deny fan theories about “Tenet.” She does get a kick out of some of the speculation and hints that ultimately, “people are going to be very, very surprised.”

That kind-of makes her character sound like ones she played before in The Night Manager or Widows.

johnny_ultimate · 20-07-2020 6:57pm

Delayed indefinitely now, although Warner Bros strongly suggesting they won’t be waiting for the US to fully reopen before pushing ahead. Curious to see what form the release ultimately takes.

Fair to say a few Irish multiplexes will be staying closed until this or another big hitter finally shows up - Cineworld in particular. The studios will need to start writing off the prospect of a wide US release soon if they want to keep more cinemas outside that disaster zone afloat when this is all over.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/tenet-delayed-again-christopher-nolan-1234699068/

pixelburp · 20-07-2020 7:17pm

The sensible choice, but on a day when there are only 6 new cases here it highlights both the depths America finds itself in, and perhaps the final erosion of that country's status as world cinemas prime market. International markets had been becoming more and more important. At this rate the US is becoming a liability.

Agent Coulson · 20-07-2020 8:33pm

We are living a Nolan film no need to see one.

Agent Coulson · 20-07-2020 8:35pm

Mr.S wrote: »

Makes sense. I wonder will they cave for a Digital release and then screen sometime in the future?

Could Warner sell it as an exclusive to Netflix, Amazon Prime or Apple TV? I suppose once they go down the road of that its instant 4K pirate copy available.

imo I'd gladly watch it on VOD first and then see it in the cinema.

They have there own HBO Max for streaming they wouldn’t be selling to a rival.

MfMan · 20-07-2020 11:37pm

Maybe it's crap and they're going to can it.

Outkast_IRE · 21-07-2020 8:38am

peteeeed wrote: »

Dunkirk is great too

Dunkirk was excellent on a technical level. I thought it lacked heart, alot of people honestly felt i dont really care about any of these characters.

But i would also say it suffered from his insistence of not utilising CGI for some key scenes to actually demonstrate the scale of the evacuation. The scale never comes across correctly in the movie due to this.

I thought 1917 was far better in most aspects than dunkirk.

Ipso · 21-07-2020 4:42pm

MfMan wrote: »

Maybe it's crap and they're going to can it.

Yeah. They’ll can a movie with a huge budget.

22-07-2020 1:07am

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Dunkirk was excellent on a technical level. I thought it lacked heart, alot of people honestly felt i dont really care about any of these characters.

But i would also say it suffered from his insistence of not utilising CGI for some key scenes to actually demonstrate the scale of the evacuation. The scale never comes across correctly in the movie due to this.

I thought 1917 was far better in most aspects than dunkirk.

that was the whole point of Dunkirk - not to focus on the characters. thats why for example names are not dwelt on at all really.

it's about the tension of the situation. the drama of it. that's what it brilliantly succeeds in portraying imo

I personally thought that 1917 was vastly over-rated. The fake continuous shot trick got old quickly and there were several scenes that didn't work at all imo - e.g. the plane through the barn one and the one where loads of soldiers miss him a the firelight / dawn scene and the stupid fake bloated bodies.

Didn't care for it at all. Couldn't have cared by the end whether he survived or not.

Saw both in the cinema.

I predict Dunkirk will be remembered as a classic and 1917 as something that was known at the time for a quickly-boring so-called continuous shot.

Banjaxed82 · 22-07-2020 6:58am

glasso wrote: »

that was the whole point of Dunkirk - not to focus on the characters. thats why for example names are not dwelt on at all really.

it's about the tension of the situation. the drama of it. that's what it brilliantly succeeds in portraying imo

I personally thought that 1917 was vastly over-rated. The fake continuous shot trick got old quickly and there were several scenes that didn't work at all imo - e.g. the plane through the barn one and the one where loads of soldiers miss him a the firelight / dawn scene and the stupid fake bloated bodies.

Didn't care for it at all. Couldn't have cared by the end whether he survived or not.

Saw both in the cinema.

I predict Dunkirk will be remembered as a classic and 1917 as something that was known at the time for a quickly-boring so-called continuous shot.

Agreed. Dunkirk was an "experience". It is single handedly an advertisement for why the cinema experience trumps anything you can replicate in your gaff.

I found it very hard to get on board with 1917. Couldn't get emotionally involved in the characters, and while there was great technical achievements, they also hamstrung themselves with the same storytelling device that quickly grew old, and only served Mendes in limiting his ability to tell the story.

Stripping away the one shot aspect, it's a very middle of the road film as far as story/character goes.

Homelander · 22-07-2020 10:16am

glasso wrote: »

I predict Dunkirk will be remembered as a classic and 1917 as something that was known at the time for a quickly-boring so-called continuous shot.

To be honest it's far more likely that neither will be remembered much at all.

Saving Private Ryan. Black Hawk Down. Das Boot. Platoon - there are many more, but the types of true classics.

1917 and Dunkirk are technically decent movies but far from classics, 20 years from now no-one will be talking about either of them.

TheIrishGrover · 22-07-2020 10:33am

MfMan wrote: »

Maybe it's crap and they're going to can it.

Shut your filthy mouth!

(JK)

Nah, as with most of Nolan's stuff, he's big on spectacle. Sometimes this can be a bad thing as the big spectacular scenes can attempt to hide a lacking story but Nolan uses spectacle brilliantly.

I am very happy I saw his Dark Knight trilogy, Inception, Interstellar and Dunkirk in the cinema before on my TV. I also saw the Tenet prologue in the cinema and it looked fantastic (Ear-bleedingly loud and explained nothing but was amazing).

I agree that the characters in Dunkirk may have been lacking but, as others have said, it wasn't really about the individuals, more the overall experience. I mean many of the characters didn't even have names. ButI LOVED the flying sequences. The creaks of the plane as it turned, the panorama. Beautiful.

So yeah, unfortunately I think this is the correct decision. Tenet will need to be seen on the biggest screen as possible with the fullest screenings as possible. While it's a bummer we can't see it now I'd rather they delay it until it can have the biggest audience. Nolan is proving that Summer Blockbusters can be big and brash without being dumb or conforming to a cookie-cutter assembly-line formula.

MfMan · 22-07-2020 11:24am

Ipso wrote: »

Yeah. They’ll can a movie with a huge budget.

It might be Heaven's Gate II where the protagonists travel back in time to partake in the Johnson County war.

22-07-2020 4:24pm

Homelander wrote: »

To be honest it's far more likely that neither will be remembered much at all.

Saving Private Ryan. Black Hawk Down. Das Boot. Platoon - there are many more, but the types of true classics.

1917 and Dunkirk are technically decent movies but far from classics, 20 years from now no-one will be talking about either of them.

I disagree re Dunkirk.

Well be remembered for putting you there in the scene from the beginning and maintaining that tension until the end.

Great movies don't have to have a paint-by-numbers traditional plot.

Of course this applies to the absolute prerequisite of seeing it in the cinema.

Platoon has aged badly (particularly the ending) and Saving Private Ryan to an extent (spinoff band of brothers is better). Black Hawk down not in the conversation of top tier. Das Boot is a classic but too cramped (literally) to have any scale.

Ipso · 22-07-2020 4:33pm

MfMan wrote: »

It might be Heaven's Gate II where the protagonists travel back in time to partake in the Johnson County war.

Tenets gate.

22-07-2020 8:42pm

War is about war.

Individuals are nothing in the overall machine.

That is the fallacy of the majority of most war movies.

Particularly the ones dripping with sentimentality and/or sanctimony.

The White Wolf · 25-07-2020 5:05pm

Homelander wrote: »

To be honest it's far more likely that neither will be remembered much at all.

Saving Private Ryan. Black Hawk Down. Das Boot. Platoon - there are many more, but the types of true classics.

1917 and Dunkirk are technically decent movies but far from classics, 20 years from now no-one will be talking about either of them.

You know it's funny.....people always level this criticism at Nolan yet it's his films that are amongst the most debated and talked about of the last decade plus. Interstellar, Inception, TDK, TDKR, Dunkirk.

I think it's safe to say they will be remembered as long as this generation is alive at the least.

peteeeed · 27-07-2020 6:18pm

Opening aug 26th in 70 countries

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/media/tenet-international-release/index.html

Tenet (Christopher Nolan) *spoilers from post 475*

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Tenet (Christopher Nolan) spoilers from post 475