How will schools be able to go back in September?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 12:19PM

Newbie20 wrote: »

Ciara Kelly and the likes are quick to say they teachers were off since the 12th of March.

Some of them might as well have been off for the level of effort they made.

It really is a shame because there were plenty of teachers that worked twice as hard while also trying to teach their own children.

Huge disparity between schools and teachers, which is why as part of any contingency planning an online learning model also needs to be prepared in future alongside the traditional curriculum.

As well as proper accountability and a method of measuring the level of work completed for teachers and students.

Boggles · 25-07-2020 12:21PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Some of them might as well have been off for the level of effort they made.

It really is a shame because there were plenty of teachers that worked twice as hard while also trying to teach their own children.

How do you know what "plenty" of teachers did or didn't do?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 12:25PM

Boggles wrote: »

How do you know what "plenty" of teachers did or didn't do?

Oh maybe from having gone through the home learning experience with primary, secondary and third level.

Or from friends and family who work in teaching also from conversations with other parents.

From commentary on here as well, lots of teachers worked their a** off while some parents/kids got little or nothing.

Boggles · 25-07-2020 12:26PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Oh maybe from having gone through the home learning experience with primary, secondary and third level.

Or from friends and family who work in teaching also from conversations with other parents.

From commentary on here as well, lots of teachers worked their a** off while some parents/kids got little or nothing.

So did your kids get little or nothing?

Newbie20 · 25-07-2020 12:31PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Some of them might as well have been off for the level of effort they made.

It really is a shame because there were plenty of teachers that worked twice as hard while also trying to teach their own children.

Huge disparity between schools and teachers, which is why as part of any contingency planning an online learning model also needs to be prepared in future alongside the traditional curriculum.

As well as proper accountability and a method of measuring the level of work completed for teachers and students.

You’ve basically been typing the same message for about 4 months now. We get it. You don’t seem to be flat out with work yourself.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 12:33PM

Boggles wrote: »

So did your kids get little or nothing?

I found it really varied hugely from teacher to teacher and from school to school.

The secondary school overall did an excellent job covering the core subjects and communication was good, different formats used audio lessons, video group sessions and Google classroom.

3rd level there was some room for improvement in communication and engagement of lecturers at the beginning but I do think by its nature 3rd level can translate easier to online formats anyway.

Primary school was not great at all.

Like I said huge disparity, and it needs to be formalised if it's to ever be a plan B again.

am_zarathustra · 25-07-2020 12:34PM

I'd agree, I killed myself, worked way more hours and had two Leaving Cert classes so up until the cancellation I was spending huge time trying to keep them on track. But I know others didn't. To be fair, I'd be very comfortable with technology, the speed at which schools were shut didn't leave massive time for planning which didn't help but some teachers admitted they were treating it as a holiday. The majority did work very hard but a few slackers make everyone look bad, perception doesn't always represent the truth

I still don't see the issue of the lack of teachers in urban areas being addressed. My biggest concern is not any of the structural or procedural changes that need to happen. They will just be muddled through as always. The issue is we can make teachers out of thin air. People have to accept that chronic underfunding of education and lack of pay equalisation along with an unnecessarily expensive 2 year PME mean we simply don't have the staff to decrease class size or to guarantee your children a qualified sub. The department has had its head in the sand regarding this for years, I hope they get found out. Schools have struggled massively at local level and the department have never out forward any sensible options despite it being obvious what needs to be done.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 12:35PM

Newbie20 wrote: »

You’ve basically been typing the same message for about 4 months now. We get it. You don’t seem to be flat out with work yourself.

You don't agree that some schools/teachers let the profession down, just a bit?

I've been working, never stopped but I don't have 30 kids plus their parents relying on me for my output.

Boggles · 25-07-2020 12:42PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I found it really varied hugely from teacher to teacher and from school to school.

The secondary school overall did an excellent job covering the core subjects and communication was good, different formats used audio lessons, video group sessions and Google classroom.

3rd level there was some room for improvement in communication and engagement of lecturers at the beginning but I do think by its nature 3rd level can translate easier to online formats anyway.

Primary school was not great at all.

Like I said huge disparity, and it needs to be formalised if it's to ever be a plan B again.

So older kids better, younger kids now so much. The reality being blended learning is not suited to younger kids, you are no different from anyone else.

But overall you had a positive experience as did your family and friends.

Stop fúcking whinging constantly so.

Treppen · 25-07-2020 12:42PM

I can see why the government were stalling.

Why bother when you can copy off your neighbour the day after.

https://www.gov.scot/news/return-to-full-time-schooling/Return to full-time schooling - gov.scot

heldel00 · 25-07-2020 12:48PM

^^^link not working

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 12:48PM

Boggles wrote: »

So older kids better, younger kids now so much. The reality being blended learning is not suited to younger kids, you are no different from anyone else.

But overall you had a positive experience as did your family and friends.

Stop fúcking whinging constantly so.

Which is exactly why online learning cannot be anything other than a rare short term emergency measure for primary pupils.

The experience of family/friends varied, again some were OK others got not much.

It would be prudent for DOE to have a contingency plan in the form of an alternative online offering in the event that it ever has to be done again.

glack · 25-07-2020 12:55PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My understanding was that the class would be a pod .The class arrive together and play together and leave together .Staggered arrival and home times I presume to facilitate that

This would be my preference. Limits risks in a practical way while also ensure children get proper teaching. Not sure how second level would manage but this is the only practical solution I can see at primary that has all our students back.

25-07-2020 01:36PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I found it really varied hugely from teacher to teacher and from school to school.

The secondary school overall did an excellent job covering the core subjects and communication was good, different formats used audio lessons, video group sessions and Google classroom.

3rd level there was some room for improvement in communication and engagement of lecturers at the beginning but I do think by its nature 3rd level can translate easier to online formats anyway.

Primary school was not great at all.

Like I said huge disparity, and it needs to be formalised if it's to ever be a plan B again.

Based on your sample size of 1-2 kids in primary school I would guess.

In the space of one walk during the lockdown, I had one parent of a young primary school child complain that they had too much work and were overwhelmed with homeschooling and another complain that they weren't getting enough.

I regularly sent out surveys to the parents of my kids and the range in what each wanted for their own child was vast. I ended up giving out loads of individually tailored programmes as a result.

I repeatedly hear stories of teachers who did next to nothing during lockdown but am yet to see any evidence of same. Just hearsay.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 01:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Based on your sample size of 1-2 kids in primary school I would guess.

In the space of one walk during the lockdown, I had one parent of a young primary school child complain that they had too much work and were overwhelmed with homeschooling and another complain that they weren't getting enough.

I regularly sent out surveys to the parents of my kids and the range in what each wanted for their own child was vast. I ended up giving out loads of individually tailored programmes as a result.

I repeatedly hear stories of teachers who did next to nothing during lockdown but am yet to see any evidence of same. Just hearsay.

I don't think parents ever appreciate that they are one of a large number and often have no idea what the teacher is doing for other children in the class.

In my school, we printed out and hand delivered work for children who didn't have printers, I personally delivered iPads to families that were struggling with technology and delivered food parcels to less well off families.

We made a video for prospective new students, I looked after our website and all social media. I couldn't be prouder of the effort our school made.

And yet I repeatedly get asked, how long have I been on holidays now.

You see, you went above and beyond, that doesn't mean every other teacher did.

Like you pointed out everyone's experience is different, the same way that some teachers really made an effort and worked themselves harder than ever, while others (and other teachers have pointed it our here too) treated it like a holiday.

I don't know why it's so hard to admit that some teachers let the side down. There is nothing wrong in pointing out that some teachers did stellar work and others did next to nothing.

Newbie20 · 25-07-2020 01:49PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

You don't agree that some schools/teachers let the profession down, just a bit?

I've been working, never stopped but I don't have 30 kids plus their parents relying on me for my output.

Yes of course there were some, as there always are and always will be in every profession. But I think that they were in the minority. Unfortunately there are some bad/lazy teachers like there are bad/lazy people in all professions. Sure I was told by a nurse that there were some nurses at the start of COVID that were claiming to be sick when they weren’t at all because they didn’t want to face the risks at work. Would I give out about nurses constantly for this? Absolutely not because that was only a minority and the vast majority did a fantastic job and deserve enormous credit for the work they did. (Not saying that teachers deserve enormous credit btw).

You are constantly criticising teachers here on the basis of a few you know of. You’ve made your point a million times and we’ve all heard you. This thread is supposed to be about how the schools will open in September.

I find it very interesting that you say you have been working all along yourself. You have been flat out posting here for the last 4 months. Anytime I log on and read recent pages, you have comments on just about every page. It’s a bit rich for you to be criticising anyone’s lack of work when it would appear you’re doing little or nothing yourself only posting online.

Boggles · 25-07-2020 01:52PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

There is nothing wrong in pointing out that some teachers did stellar work and others did next to nothing.

When you are pointing it out every day for 4 months there is something wrong with that, it's not normal.

Particularly when your own actual experience was largely positive.

It's beyond weird and bitter.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 01:56PM

Newbie20 wrote: »

Yes of course there were some, as there always are and always will be in every profession. But I think that they were in the minority. Unfortunately there are some bad/lazy teachers like there are bad/lazy people in all professions. Sure I was told by a nurse that there were some nurses at the start of COVID that were claiming to be sick when they weren’t at all because they didn’t want to face the risks at work. Would I give out about nurses constantly for this? Absolutely not because that was only a minority and the vast majority did a fantastic job and deserve enormous credit for the work they did. (Not saying that teachers deserve enormous credit btw).

You are constantly criticising teachers here on the basis of a few you know of. You’ve made your point a million times and we’ve all heard you. This thread is supposed to be about how the schools will open in September.

I find it very interesting that you say you have been working all along yourself. You have been flat out posting here for the last 4 months. Anytime I log on and read recent pages, you have comments on just about every page. It’s a bit rich for you to be criticising anyone’s lack of work when it would appear you’re doing little or nothing yourself only posting online.

Agree, slackers exist in all professions and yes thankfully they are the minority.

I have not criticised teachers, they do a job that I have already said I couldn't do myself.

I have simply outlined my experiences as have others and I have commended those teachers that made fantastic efforts.

I've switched to working nights since March to facilitate things here at home so we can both still work so don't be worrying about my posting :pac:

Boggles · 25-07-2020 01:58PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I have not criticised teachers

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

25-07-2020 03:58PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

You see, you went above and beyond, that doesn't mean every other teacher did.

Like you pointed out everyone's experience is different, the same way that some teachers really made an effort and worked themselves harder than ever, while others (and other teachers have pointed it our here too) treated it like a holiday.

I don't know why it's so hard to admit that some teachers let the side down. There is nothing wrong in pointing out that some teachers did stellar work and others did next to nothing.

With respect, I would say you have no idea of what teachers did or did not do during the lockdown.

Having said that, there are people in every job who try to get away with as much as possible, and I'd say teaching is no different. In my first job (not teaching), I sat next to a guy who read football websites for six hours a day.

Your obsession with teachers and what you think they didn't do is way over the top in my opinion. Some of the things my colleagues did for kids over the last few months was incredible.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 04:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

With respect, I would say you have no idea of what teachers did or did not do during the lockdown.

As I said, I had experience with all three levels so I'd have a fair idea of what at least 20+ teachers were doing myself (not as you guessed one or two in primary).

That's simply my own experience and I do think those who went above and beyond deserve some recognition for that and not be tarred with the same brush as the slackers.

I contacted school management to compliment the excellent efforts that some teachers went to because I don't believe it should go unnoticed.

Like you said dossers exist in all walks of life, that's definitely something I'd agree on.

25-07-2020 05:09PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

As I said, I had experience with all three levels so I'd have a fair idea of what at least 20+ teachers were doing myself (not as you guessed one or two in primary).

That's simply my own experience and I do think those who went above and beyond deserve some recognition for that and not be tarred with the same brush as the slackers.

I contacted school management to compliment the excellent efforts that some teachers went to because I don't believe it should go unnoticed.

Like you said dossers exist in all walks of life, that's definitely something I'd agree on.

Out of the 20 plus, how many were 'slackers'?

billyhead · 25-07-2020 05:30PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Out of the 20 plus, how many were 'slackers'?

Is it not up to Management to actually pull slackers up? Surely that's part of their job in any organisation. If there are slackers in any workplace thats the fault of management.

Murple · 25-07-2020 05:36PM

billyhead wrote: »

Is it not up to Management to actually pull slackers up? Surely that's part of their job in any organisation. If there are slackers in any workplace thats the fault of management.

Exactly, though in some cases, management are the slackers and that’s why nothing was put in place to enable or support remote teaching.
If people have a bad experience with a hairdresser, waitress, nurse, doctor, plumber etc. they slate that individual. When people have a bad experience with a teacher, they comment on ‘teachers’.

bettyoleary · 25-07-2020 05:53PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Agree, slackers exist in all professions and yes thankfully they are the minority.

I have not criticised teachers, they do a job that I have already said I couldn't do myself.

I have simply outlined my experiences as have others and I have commended those teachers that made fantastic efforts.

I've switched to working nights since March to facilitate things here at home so we can both still work so don't be worrying about my posting :pac:

And you are going to keep having to do that as you are deluded if you think schools are going back full time before a vaccine. Boris Johnson spouted the same thing a couple of months ago. All schools can go back on Monday!!! The unions took over immediately and looked at health and safety and completely ignored him. Why do you think the same wont happen in Ireland? There is no way any body with an ounce of common sense or compassion for any body can expect teachers to go into crowded and poorly ventilated spaces and teach. Its not happening. besides looking at whats happened in countries where they tried this and had to close down, we have unions to protect people. Stop putting your selfishness on others and as Ive said do some on line teaching practice.

25-07-2020 06:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of the 20 plus, how many were 'slackers'?

Any answer to this?

25-07-2020 06:19PM

billyhead wrote: »

Is it not up to Management to actually pull slackers up? Surely that's part of their job in any organisation. If there are slackers in any workplace thats the fault of management.

I would have thought that goes without saying. Not sure what it has to do with the question I asked.

Boggles · 25-07-2020 06:30PM

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ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 26-07-2020 09:59AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Any answer to this?

It varied widely really and that's the issue.

Overall 3 or 4 didn't do much of what I would consider work but equally the same number put their heart and soul into it (and believe me it really made a difference and was very much appreciated).

The rest did just what was needed and again that was fine.

I don't know whether it comes down to lack of direction or leadership but I think it would be important to have a more uniform approach.

That would manage expectations of parents and ensure that teachers know exactly what's required. While extra effort is great its not right that a teacher should be overwhelmed and spending day and night doing their job either.

Do you think having a back up plan such as an online version of how the main core curriculum subjects are taught would be useful or would it just be a waste of time/money?

Hopefully not something we will need to have but better to have a plan.

wirelessdude01 · 26-07-2020 10:03AM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Do you think having a back up plan such as an online version of how the main core curriculum subjects are taught would be useful or would it just be a waste of time/money?

Hopefully not something we will need to have but better to have a plan.

That would require the department to be proactive. I'll be highly surprised if they are as forward thinking as that.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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