Masks

OldRio · 25-07-2020 02:00PM

Yes: valved

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

No need, because I am not at any significant risk to need to do anything beyond good hygiene and social distancing - and as I don't generally hug random people in supermarkets, or get so close to them that even in normal circumstances it'd be odd, that level of risk is virtually zero.

And as I've said before, life IS risk. Virtually everything we do carries some chance that something may go wrong. But we don't generally worst-case preparations before we engage in those things. If we did we probably would never leave the house at all.

I thought you were sweating? Had trouble breathing? Lacking in concentration?

Boggles · 25-07-2020 02:00PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You're only proving my argument earlier - can't make a coherent point without hyperbole and insults.

I have no need to do an act. I'm not 12 and I don't particularly care what a bunch of anonymous Internet randomers think. But I am free to give my experiences and views - just as you are - and will continue to do so.

If that upsets you, feel free to put me on ignore (and anyone else likewise)

Why would you be upsetting me? :pac:

You are wearing a mask when you are in shops, etc.

Thank you and good for you.

Graham · 25-07-2020 02:01PM

OldRio wrote: »

I thought you were sweating? Had trouble breathing? Lacking in concentration?

Just the type of person you want panting next to you unmasked while you do the weekly shop. :eek:

_Kaiser_ · 25-07-2020 02:01PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

You don't know if you are sick. You can have this, be infectious and not know it.

What are your chances of being in a car accident?
And do you still wear a seat belt?
Why would weaing a masks to protect others be different?

I drive a lot of miles every week (well, I did until all this started) and yes I wear a seat belt of course because it's an obvious way of making it an acceptable risk.

But I don't just not drive, or drive so slowly as to be pointless.

And that's the crux of the issue. Insisting upon masks, at this stage of the progression, is not a justified proportional response. The time for that was March/April, not 3/4 months later when the numbers are down to minimal levels anyway.

Graham · 25-07-2020 02:02PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And that's the crux of the issue. Insisting upon masks, at this stage of the progression, is not a justified proportional response. The time for that was March/April, not 3/4 months later when the numbers are down to minimal levels anyway.

The medical profession disagree.

I'll go with their advice.

GazzaL · 25-07-2020 02:02PM

Graham wrote: »

Perhaps you'll answer this time.

How does wearing a mask incorrectly increase the risk when compared to not wearing a mask at all?

I've answered this question so often, I could have trained a parrot.

If someone is wearing a mask incorrectly, fidgets and touches their mask and their face, they are at higher risk of infecting themselves than someone who isn't wearing any mask and doesn't touch their face.

This is in the WHO guidelines. Why do so many pro-mask people on here have no regard for the WHO guidelines?

_Kaiser_ · 25-07-2020 02:03PM

OldRio wrote: »

I thought you were sweating? Had trouble breathing? Lacking in concentration?

Graham wrote: »

Just the type of person you want panting next to you unmasked while you do the weekly shop. :eek:

Yep. And for what? There's so many exceptions to this "mask up" notion and it only applies in certain situations anyway that if you're going to catch the virus you likely will I'm afraid.

You can live in fear from that, lashing out at others who don't subscribe to the same view, or you can get on with your life as best you can under these circumstances.

Guess which one I'm doing?

Graham · 25-07-2020 02:03PM

GazzaL wrote: »

I've answered this question so often, I could have trained a parrot.

If someone is wearing a mask incorrectly, fidgets and touches their mask and their face, they are at higher risk of infecting themselves than someone who isn't wearing any mask and doesn't touch their face.

This is in the WHO guidelines. Why do so many pro-mask people on here have no regard for the WHO guidelines?

Compared to not wearing a mask at all?

I know you'd really really like to ignore that flaw in your logic but go on, at least attempt an answer.

Graham · 25-07-2020 02:04PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yep. And for what? There's so many exceptions to this "mask up" notion and it only applies in certain situations anyway that if you're going to catch the virus you likely will I'm afraid.

Masks are to prevent it spreading.

Boggles · 25-07-2020 02:04PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And that's the crux of the issue. Insisting upon masks, at this stage of the progression, is not a justified proportional response. The time for that was March/April, not 3/4 months later when the numbers are down to minimal levels anyway.

Well no, the time for it was probably January / February. Then March wouldn't have been so bad.

Now the hope is we are wearing them July / August, the winter won't be so bad.

This really isn't too difficult to understand TBF.

But you are wearing a mask now so that's all that counts.

I get it that pisses you off, I hate wearing them, but sure if it is the worse thing that happens you in the next 12-18 months, it will be grand.

bodhrandude · 25-07-2020 02:06PM

Yes: surgical

xhomelezz wrote: »

Something like this American idiot

Video doesn't play.

Overheal · 25-07-2020 02:06PM

No: I don't care enough

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Are the pro-mark zealots (because that's what some of these posts read like to be honest!) REALLY so fearful of "the virus" that they will lash out whenever someone questions it, or doesn't agree? Or is it just Irish begrudgery/curtain-twitching that some seem to be "getting away with" something they're not?

I'm actually serious. Given the extremely low rates of new cases and deaths that we continue to have, coupled with the again declining "R number" (because I know that's another favourite used to validate it), why do we need masks NOW when we didn't at any point up until now - and yet somehow still managed to "flatten the curve" to the aforementioned minimal new cases?

I'm just back from the weekly shop and it was a thoroughly unpleasant experience. Couldn't breathe properly, sweating, and even trouble concentrating by the time I got out of the place. I also spent about half what I normally would so there's that element too. But of course, I fully expect this real world feedback to be dismissed with "just get on with it" or whatever.

Twitter and the culture it's bred (this "need" to be on-message and validated, coupled with an aggressive "with us or against us" stance) has a LOT to answer for generally, but particularly in how some people are treating others during this situation.

So correcting misinformation lashing out now :rolleyes:

How are you sweating? You had a high of 66 F yesterday that’s colder than I chill my house!

OldRio · 25-07-2020 02:07PM

Yes: valved

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Guess which one I'm doing?

A lot of sweating and breathing problems and lack of concentration is what you're doing. I'm just getting on with it. Wearing a mask to help others incase I have the virus.

_Kaiser_ · 25-07-2020 02:07PM

Graham wrote: »

The medical profession disagree.

I'll go with their advice.

The medical profession can't even agree among themselves what the right course is most of the time - for every case saying x, there'll be one saying y that seems just as valid.

Plus the medical advice is based on the central tenant of "do no harm". If it was up to them the country would still be in lockdown. And that's fine. That is after all their area and remit. But there's a lot more to life in a country than that.

That's why the responses need to be proportional to an evolving situation, and I can see no reason why we MUST wear masks now, but didn't at the height of the cases 2 months ago, beyond politicians abdicating their responsibility to NPHET and with an eye on the polls.

Overheal · 25-07-2020 02:08PM

No: I don't care enough

GazzaL wrote: »

I've repeatedly posted the WHO guidelines only to be dismissed by the same bunch of eejits on here. Huge numbers of people are wearing face masks incorrectly, putting themselves and others at higher risk.

I don’t see anywhere in the post where Robinph says that you should be touching your mask.

xhomelezz · 25-07-2020 02:08PM

Yes: valved

bodhrandude wrote: »

Video doesn't play.

https://youtu.be/uoxmSFvi5JA

Boggles · 25-07-2020 02:11PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

That's why the responses need to be proportional to an evolving situation, and I can see no reason why we MUST wear masks now, but didn't at the height of the cases 2 months ago, beyond politicians abdicating their responsibility to NPHET and with an eye on the polls.

I just gave you one.

When you say you can't see a reason, what you mean is you are ignoring reasons / Science. That should worry you.

But like I said, you are wearing a mask that's all that counts.

We can't have public health advice based on ignorance, particularly yours? Can we?

That would be nuts wouldn't it?

Graham · 25-07-2020 02:11PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I can see no reason why we MUST wear masks now

You'll excuse me if I'm pleased that the choice has been taken out of your hands given the ongoing pandemic and all.

Overheal · 25-07-2020 02:11PM

No: I don't care enough

xhomelezz wrote: »

https://youtu.be/uoxmSFvi5JA

If you poor souls want the spring well for these videos go to http://reddit.com/r/publicfreakout

odyssey06 · 25-07-2020 02:12PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The medical profession can't even agree among themselves what the right course is most of the time - for every case saying x, there'll be one saying y that seems just as valid.

That's a total cop out argument that can used to justify anything, from anti-vax to anti-mask. It's a non-argument.
In one post you say if NPHET brought in mandaory masks in april you would agree.
In another you say this.

Overheal · 25-07-2020 02:13PM

No: I don't care enough

_Kaiser_ what’s your stance on vaccines so

_Kaiser_ · 25-07-2020 02:21PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's a total cop out argument that can used to justify anything, from anti-vax to anti-mask. It's a non-argument.
In one post you say if NPHET brought in mandaory masks in april you would agree.
In another you say this.

No, I'm asking why DIDN'T we have masks in April when the virus was at FAR higher levels of infection and transmission than it is now.

Insisting on them at this point is a classic example of closing the stable door after the horse or bolted, or (another Irish favourite) doing something to be seen to do it, but with little practical benefit.

Again, the key point is that these measures must be weighed against the reality of where we are now - not where we were, or are terrified we might end up when the numbers over the last month - despite reopening - don't indicate any massive surge at all.

Overheal wrote: »

_Kaiser_ what’s your stance on vaccines so

Really? Do you want to throw in 5G as well? Maybe Trump? Brexit? :rolleyes:

Here's a radical concept.. it's possible to be for one thing that the "other" side might support, but against another. Y'know, individual thought and decision-making.

But for what it's worth.. vaccines are a good thing, Trump is an idiot but like a stopped clock, he can be right occasionally too, and Brexit was because ordinary citizens got tired of being told what to think when the reality they live in was/is very different.

Graham · 25-07-2020 02:23PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Insisting on them at this point is a classic example of closing the stable door after the horse or bolted

Has the virus suddenly stopped spreading?

_Kaiser_ · 25-07-2020 02:25PM

Graham wrote: »

Has the virus suddenly stopped spreading?

Did I claim that it had? Or did I say that it's at minimal levels thanks to the efforts of people - almost entirely without masks incidentally! - and as such masks NOW are not a proportional response.

It would be great if people could read full posts before hitting reply.

bush · 25-07-2020 02:26PM

No: other

How long are people willing to wear masks? How long until they cant be arsed anymore? How low do the cases have to be before we can stop wearing them?

odyssey06 · 25-07-2020 02:26PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

No, I'm asking why DIDN'T we have masks in April when the virus was at FAR higher levels of infection and transmission than it is now.
Insisting on them at this point is a classic example of closing the stable door after the horse or bolted, or (another Irish favourite) doing something to be seen to do it, but with little practical benefit.
Again, the key point is that these measures must be weighed against the reality of where we are now - not where we were, or are terrified we might end up when the numbers over the last month - despite reopening - don't indicate any massive surge at all.

We didn't have the masks.
We didn't have the information we have now on their effects on case reductions.
It's not just in Ireland so that argument is redundant.
Masks being rolled out across Europe. Asia.
To prevent a re-surge.

Really? Do you want to throw in 5G as well? Maybe Trump? Brexit? :rolleyes:/QUOTE]

Rolls eyes? That doesn't impress anyone.
It was your statement. Own it.
It is blank cheque that can justify anything.

Here's a radical concept.. it's possible to be for one thing that the "other" side might support, but against another. Y'know, individual thought and decision-making.

Not when it comes to public health. same as it was for smoking in plublic places. Same as it was for drink driving.
If you want to take health risks with your own body you can.
But when it comes to the safety of others, that's no longer the case.

Graham · 25-07-2020 02:26PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Did I claim that it had? Or did I say that it's at minimal levels thanks to the efforts of people - almost entirely without masks incidentally! - and as such masks NOW are not a proportional response.

It would be great if people could read full posts before hitting reply.

Does someone need to explain exponential growth?

_Kaiser_ · 25-07-2020 02:30PM

Graham wrote: »

Does someone need to explain exponential growth?

What exponential growth? The country has (mostly) been reopened a month now and the numbers every day continue to be minimal and consistent - have a look at the graph in the Covid app. Sure there's increases and decreases but OVERALL it's at the same stable levels

_Kaiser_ · 25-07-2020 02:35PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

We didn't have the masks.
We didn't have the information we have now on their effects on case reductions.
It's not just in Ireland so that argument is redundant.
Masks being rolled out across Europe. Asia.
To prevent a re-surge.

Again, what resurge? It's a POSSIBILITY but by no means a certainty. Right now.. a month on from the widest reopening in the country yet, the numbers continue to be minimal and stable. This is a GOOD thing.

And all without forcing people to wear masks.

Rolls eyes? That doesn't impress anyone.
It was your statement. Own it.
It is blank cheque that can justify anything.

I didn't make any statement on vaccines actually. That was Overheal. I did answer it though.

Not when it comes to public health. same as it was for smoking in plublic places. Same as it was for drink driving.
If you want to take health risks with your own body you can.
But when it comes to the safety of others, that's no longer the case.

That's a very weak argument along the lines of the "think of the children" reference I made earlier. It can be used to explain away or justify almost anything which is a dangerous precedent to set really.

Our CV-19 responses should not just be in line with medical ADVICE (emphasis on that word), but what's good for the country and the people in it as a whole.

We may very well GET to a point where masks are essential in protecting people - but we're a long way off that point at the moment.

And that's a good thing too!

Graham · 25-07-2020 02:36PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

What exponential growth? The country has (mostly) been reopened a month now and the numbers every day continue to be minimal

On March 22nd we had around 900 cases. Here's what it looked like in the weeks that followed.

906
2,615
4,994
9,648
15,244
19,255

I can't honestly believe there are people arguing for us to do a Florida on it.

Masks

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