How will schools be able to go back in September?

caveat emptor · 24-07-2020 11:21PM

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I’m not responding anymore but your use of a straw man argument shows you are not able to articulate the reasoning behind the argument you are peddling. Finally if you think that poorer kids only benefit academically from attending school, you have a lot of reading to do. You could start with the article and sources listed in the last article I shared.

No straw man here.
Just kids and their futures to consider.
Specifically mine.

Health versus future wealth.

You need to read up on fat tail risks.

Caveat: I said academically subsequently economically

Nice straw man though

bloopy · 24-07-2020 11:29PM

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I’m not sure what you are implying here - is it that Donald Trump has paid the school off to not reopen ?
Either way sharing a post to back up your opinion without actually reading it, is a poor contribution to an argument.

Because it was a Twitter headline. You think people have time to actually read stuff in between the shouting on that cesspool of a platform?

caveat emptor · 24-07-2020 11:41PM

bloopy wrote: »

Because it was a Twitter headline. You think people have time to actually read stuff in between the shouting on that cesspool of a platform?

I fvcking read it. Who would be so coarse as to not read what they share.

It’s almost as bad as those who don’t practice what they preach.

Murple · 25-07-2020 12:49AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I took the gov’s repeated use of schools will return full time , want to open full time as an indicator that SD was gone and all children would be in school. The Forsa release part for primary indicates smaller pods which suggests staff in full time and children staggered. Mon will be interesting.

I suspect the 'smaller pods' will be within a class, as in 4-6 children sitting together at a table with no effort to distance them and the rest of the class in a similar arrangement. The 6 children can play together and sit together but their table will be a metre away from other groups. It's a nod to SD but not actually a proper practice of it.

Tokyo · 25-07-2020 03:51AM

bloopy wrote: »

Because it was a Twitter headline. You think people have time to actually read stuff in between the shouting on that cesspool of a platform?

caveat emptor wrote: »

I fvcking read it. Who would be so coarse as to not read what they share.

It’s almost as bad as those who don’t practice what they preach.

Mod: Can we all please play nice?

ceadaoin. · 25-07-2020 05:25AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I fvcking read it. Who would be so coarse as to not read what they share.

It’s almost as bad as those who don’t practice what they preach.

The school havent even said that they won't be reopening. Just that they probably won't be in class 5 days a week if they do.

Where I am, public schools will be fully distance learning when schools reopen next month, but private schools will be operating as normal and some, like my daughters school, will be offering online only for those who want it (for the same monthly fees). From what I can see, most who can are sending their kids back. So its not a case of "the rich" protecting their own kids whilst expecting people of lower incomes to send theirs back. Its just one school.

corks finest · 25-07-2020 05:29AM

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I genuinely don’t follow your argument here. A private school is not opening and is running online classes. It is accompanied by thousands of schools and universities doing the same thing. Every single document produced says that NOT opening schools negatively effects poorer people.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/reopening-schools.html This has a list of peer reviewed documents backing up this.
What exactly is your argument, why do you think schools are being reopened?

Maybe if we had adequate broadband throughout the country we'd have some chance of at least doing some form of online schooling but successive governments failed to get their finger out, we could have some system to at least get the kids doing something akin to real schoolwork, my son's doing his leaving this year and genuinely feel he's gone backwards

lulublue22 · 25-07-2020 08:30AM

Murple wrote: »

I suspect the 'smaller pods' will be within a class, as in 4-6 children sitting together at a table with no effort to distance them and the rest of the class in a similar arrangement. The 6 children can play together and sit together but their table will be a metre away from other groups. It's a nod to SD but not actually a proper practice of it.

Interesting I wouldn’t class that as SD as you could still have up to 30 children in a small space.

grind gremlin · 25-07-2020 08:53AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Interesting I wouldn’t class that as SD as you could still have up to 30 children in a small space.

It’s lip-service to social distancing.
Crèches have pods but one staff member with each pod.

I anticipate a lot of emails from parents asking that their children are put in pods with their friends.... also... inevitably there will be situations where children may need to be moved from a group, we do it all the time in school. This will increases the risks involved. You cannot put a whole class together in a small room and ‘socially distance’ groups. All it takes is a cough or a sneeze.

When the cold weather hits our classes will be freezing as windows will have you be kept open.

combat14 · 25-07-2020 08:57AM

3rd building site now closed in dublin...

jlm29 · 25-07-2020 09:09AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

It’s not my job to teach you My argument.

Rich school not opening. Why is that? Would that be because their HEALTH may be affected negatively.

Poor children need to go to school because they’ll be negatively affected ACADEMICALLY. Subsequently economically.

Doesn’t seem like an apples and oranges argument.

So your argument could be phrased as
"the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Melos

There’s not many kids with parents as wealthy as Donald trump around where I live. I see what you’re trying to get across, but it’s an extreme example. I’m not rich, but would be classed as reasonably comfortable. How do we achieve that? By two parents going to work. Therefore my kids, though not poor in any sense of the word, would suffer Academically if they don’t go to school in some capacity, because we’re not at a level of wealth where we can pay a private tutor.

lulublue22 · 25-07-2020 09:17AM

grind gremlin wrote: »

When the cold weather hits our classes will be freezing as windows will have you be kept open.

Our school heating system can not adequately heat our school building. Last winter there were days when I taught in thermal vest, coat and hat. This winter will be chronic with windows open for ventilation

Hubertj · 25-07-2020 09:25AM

This is mad stuff altogether. How do teachers associate themselves with these type of people? The lad is now a QS, cost accountant and public health expert? LAst i checked he is a teacher and nothing else. The negative confrontational attitude is disgusting. Last paragraph says it all.... its just about pay increases.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asti-warns-that-funding-to-reopen-schools-is-insufficient-1.4312813

glack · 25-07-2020 09:35AM

Murple wrote: »

I suspect the 'smaller pods' will be within a class, as in 4-6 children sitting together at a table with no effort to distance them and the rest of the class in a similar arrangement. The 6 children can play together and sit together but their table will be a metre away from other groups. It's a nod to SD but not actually a proper practice of it.

And even as a nod to social distancing it won’t work in most cases. Some classrooms simply aren’t big enough for this. Barely room to walk between desks in places, definitely not a meter gap between all groups if I have close to 30 or even over 30 (looking like I won’t this year which will make it easier in my classroom thankfully but lots of my colleagues will)

lulublue22 · 25-07-2020 09:41AM

glack wrote: »

And even as a nod to social distancing it won’t work in most cases. Some classrooms simply aren’t big enough for this. Barely room to walk between desks in places, definitely not a meter gap between all groups if I have close to 30 or even over 30 (looking like I won’t this year which will make it easier in my classroom thankfully but lots of my colleagues will)

Trying to create mini pods of 6/7 out of a class of 30 with 1m social distance between pods is bordering on farcical tbf. Some schools may manage it but it will seriously put other schools under huge pressure trying to implement it. Pure codology really.

iamwhoiam · 25-07-2020 09:45AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Trying to create mini pods of 6/7 out of a class of 30 with 1m social distance between pods is bordering on farcical tbf. Some schools may manage it but it will seriously put other schools under huge pressure trying to implement it. Pure codology really.

My understanding was that the class would be a pod .The class arrive together and play together and leave together .Staggered arrival and home times I presume to facilitate that

History Queen · 25-07-2020 09:45AM

Hubertj wrote: »

This is mad stuff altogether. How do teachers associate themselves with these type of people? The lad is now a QS, cost accountant and public health expert? LAst i checked he is a teacher and nothing else. The negative confrontational attitude is disgusting. Last paragraph says it all.... its just about pay increases.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asti-warns-that-funding-to-reopen-schools-is-insufficient-1.4312813

Can't read as behind a pay wall. What does it say? Headline suggests not enough funding to solve issues but also is a lesser number than I've seen elsewhere.

ThunbergsAreGo · 25-07-2020 09:46AM

I believe teachers want to get back (the vast majority)

Its the government, unions, department i dont have any faith in.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 25-07-2020 09:47AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Our school heating system can not adequately heat our school building. Last winter there were days when I taught in thermal vest, coat and hat. This winter will be chronic with windows open for ventilation

Some of these schools sound like they are in absolutely woeful states.

I have never encountered any of them myself but perhaps I've been lucky. The older schools where I am are continously upgraded and well maintained and we've a couple of newer builds too.

How can you work in such shoddy conditions? Have you no place to escalate a complaint about your work environment?

Is this down to lack of investment or poor management or both?

lulublue22 · 25-07-2020 09:53AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My understanding was that the class would be a pod .The class arrive together and play together and leave together .Staggered arrival and home times I presume to facilitate that

A statement issued by Forsa indicated that to facilitate SD in the younger age group smaller pods would be created. This is open to interpretation - I took it to mean staff in full time children reduced timetable others took it to mean ( or they have heard else where) the creation of smaller pods within a pod. Still a class of 30 but within that smaller groups of 6/7 children spaced 1m away from other pods in the same room. I was making the point that I don’t see this as SD nor do I think it will be realistic to implement in a lot of schools due to classroom size.
At the end of the day it’s all speculation based on bits and pieces that is in the press etc. Nothing definite until Mon.

History Queen · 25-07-2020 09:57AM

No significant leaks so far, that's something anyway! And good to see that the unions seem to be on the same page. The Department seem willing to fund what is necessary, I'm cautiously optimistic at this stage...

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1155453/?__twitter_impression=true

grind gremlin · 25-07-2020 09:59AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

A statement issued by Forsa indicated that to facilitate SD in the younger age group smaller pods would be created. This is open to interpretation - I took it to mean staff in full time children reduced timetable others took it to mean ( or they have heard else where) the creation of smaller pods within a pod. Still a class of 30 but within that smaller groups of 6/7 children spaced 1m away from other pods in the same room. I was making the point that I don’t see this as SD nor do I think it will be realistic to implement in a lot of schools due to classroom size.
At the end of the day it’s all speculation based on bits and pieces that is in the press etc. Nothing definite until Mon.

I think one of the earlier documents produced mentioned pods within the class, separated by a meter. Not all classes can facilitate this.

downthemiddle · 25-07-2020 10:04AM

Hubertj wrote: »

This is mad stuff altogether. How do teachers associate themselves with these type of people? The lad is now a QS, cost accountant and public health expert? LAst i checked he is a teacher and nothing else. The negative confrontational attitude is disgusting. Last paragraph says it all.... its just about pay increases.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asti-warns-that-funding-to-reopen-schools-is-insufficient-1.4312813

Perhaps you can point out specifically where pay increases are mentioned.

ChelseaRentBoy · 25-07-2020 10:07AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Trying to create mini pods of 6/7 out of a class of 30 with 1m social distance between pods is bordering on farcical tbf. Some schools may manage it but it will seriously put other schools under huge pressure trying to implement it. Pure codology really.

Government attempting to look like they are doing something.. The majority of schools have zero chance of opening in a few weeks time. Teachers will not be put in harms way by being forced to teach 30 kids in tiny classrooms many are actually portacabins.

Hubertj · 25-07-2020 10:08AM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Perhaps you can point out specifically where pay increases are mentioned.

Read the last paragraph. It doesn’t take a genius to work out what is being implied.

downthemiddle · 25-07-2020 10:10AM

Hubertj wrote: »

Read the last paragraph. It doesn’t take a genius to work out what is being implied.

So it’s not mentioned. Thanks for the insight into your imagination.

History Queen · 25-07-2020 10:10AM

Hubertj wrote: »

Read the last paragraph. It doesn’t take a genius to work out what is being implied.

It's behind a paywall. I can't read it and am unwilling to pay for the level of journalism an Irish Times subscription provides. Is there any chance you are mistakenly equating looking for more funding for schools with pay claims?

Newbie20 · 25-07-2020 10:20AM

History Queen wrote: »

It's behind a paywall. I can't read it and am unwilling to pay for the level of journalism an Irish Times subscription provides. Is there any chance you are mistakenly equating looking for more funding for schools with pay claims?

One of the ASTI committee members when praising teachers for remote learning said that “this had lead to increased workload and hours”

That one line has meant this genius thinks the whole thing is about pay increases. Some amount of either WUMs or uneducated ranting lunatics on here!
It’s no harm for the ASTI to be making that point regularly because Ciara Kelly and the likes are quick to say they teachers were off since the 12th of March.

History Queen · 25-07-2020 10:23AM

Newbie20 wrote: »

One of the ASTI committee members when praising teachers for remote learning said that “this had lead to increased workload and hours”

That one line has meant this genius thinks the whole thing is about pay increases. Some amount of either WUMs or uneducated ranting lunatics on here!

Oh for God's sake! That's all? Why is there such an obsession with people assuming unions are the root of all evil?

Thank you for clarifying by the way.

is_that_so · 25-07-2020 10:25AM

History Queen wrote: »

No significant leaks so far, that's something anyway! And good to see that the unions seem to be on the same page. The Department seem willing to fund what is necessary, I'm cautiously optimistic at this stage...

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1155453/?__twitter_impression=true

Well, they now have the intense attention of the country and the government on them, so not a surprise. You'd wonder why it took them so long to even do this.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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