How will schools be able to go back in September?

Boggles · 24-07-2020 08:58AM

grind gremlin wrote: »

I completely agree with this post, unfortunately.
How will Learning Support or Resource teaching continue if children cannot be mixed from different pods / bubbles.
In situations where children have ‘shared access’ to an SNA, which child gets priority? Surely it negates the idea of pods / bubbles if a staff member is moving between classes and groups.

What about the students that need frequent movement breaks? I’m guessing the idea of in-class aerobic activity will be discouraged from an infection control point of view (too much heavy breathing). Our children will have to sit for the day, elbow room elbow with their classmates.

Within each class there are at risk pupils. There are also children from families where parents are frontline workers and possibly more likely to be exposed to the virus (1/3 of our cases have been front line workers).

I really want to get back to ‘normal’ but September most definitely not be normal. The health and safety of our children, their families and our teaching and ancillary school staff are no longer a priority as our government worries about what the neighbours might think...

Where exactly are schools supposed to find a place to ‘isolate’ students with symptoms? What happens if there’s more than one student? Who supervises them?

The works many schools will require will need Architects, planning permission and fire certs..... hard to do that on a limited budget and with 5 weeks to complete it.

All very good points, and I can think of dozens of more and dozens more will pop up that we haven't thought about.

But Leo gave you the answer to all these problems yesterday.

Mr Varadkar also said he had "every confidence" that teachers will rise to the challenge and make sure schools are open at the beginning of the new school year.

Basically get fúcking on with it. And if can't you are to blame.

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 08:59AM

khalessi wrote: »

This was on another thread.

Who called the Bank Holiday weekend for an announcement?

WHere are they going to get enhanced supervision and substitution cover? Is that SET, we find it hard enough as it is to get subs

We find sub cover very difficult as is. I will be bulling if SET are expected to cover staff absences. Taking from those children that need it the most.

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 09:09AM

Boggles wrote: »

But Leo gave you the answer to all these problems yesterday.

Basically get fúcking on with it. And if can't you are to blame.

That stood out to me too. I think anyone who has been teaching a while will understand the subtext to Leo’s comment ðŸ˜¡

Boggles · 24-07-2020 09:17AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

That stood out to me too. I think anyone who has been teaching a while will understand the subtext to Leo’s comment &#55357;&#56865;

Yip, nice little hand grenade thrown in at the end.

Boggles · 24-07-2020 09:22AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

We find sub cover very difficult as is

The vast majority of at least primary schools do.

So much so that older retired teachers are often drafted in to take up the slack.

That ain't something that be called on anymore.

The scale of the problem facing primary schools can be gauged by the 47,312 sub days worked by 1,240 retired primary teachers in 2018/19 - up from 33,093/1,003 in 2017/18 and 5,259/302 in 2013/14.

JPF82 · 24-07-2020 11:12AM

https://twitter.com/Niall___Murphy/status/1286417753755267072?s=19

Saw this last night. Interesting to see how it would look.

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 11:18AM

Boggles wrote: »

Yip, nice little hand grenade thrown in at the end.

Sitting in the hairdressers topic of conversation lazy ass teachers who don’t want to go back in Sep and who are insisting that no uniform be worn and clothes washed daily. Think Leo et al have set teachers up well - Easy to blame fall guys

ETA the amount of ****e that is being spouted as gospel is astonishing. Zero understanding of the real practical issues facing schools head wrecking doesn’t begin to cover it.

wirelessdude01 · 24-07-2020 11:23AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Sitting in the hairdressers topic of conversation lazy ass teachers who don’t want to go back in Sep and who are insisting that no uniform be worn and clothes washed daily. Think Leo et al have set teachers up well - Easy to blame fall guys

Nicely done by the puppets of the government. Leo is the cheer leader for this narrative.

Millem · 24-07-2020 11:28AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Both July provision and summer camps for Deis have been around for a long time. Even for DEIS I’ve never seen ratio of 1:15 and for July provision max I’ve seen is 1: 6 not including SNA support. So 15 seems extraordinarily high for July provision.

ETA not all children qualify for July Provision- criteria has been widened this year but it is for children with special / additional needs and those from DEIS schools. In case people are wondering why their school hasn’t signed up.

Yes but this year is different. I have been working on the home based July provision for 10+ years. Previously the school based July provision was only available in special schools.
My students could only ever avail of the home based provision as our school is a mainstream school.
The summer provision is open to all main stream schools which have students who are eligible.
The ratio of 1:6 is too high for my students even with an sna. Alot would really need 1:1 especially if I brought them to the library which was one of the suggestions from the department!!
We are not a Deis school but from memory the ratio for Deis is 1:12 for the summer provision.

Rimmy · 24-07-2020 11:30AM

Government really have no clue on it do they.

If they expect Students back in September why didn't they just delay the leaving cert till August and start colleges back middle of October for 1st years.

They really are a disgrace.

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 11:32AM

Millem wrote: »

Yes but this year is different. I have been working on the home based July provision for 10+ years. Previously the school based July provision was only available in special schools.
My students could only ever avail of the home based provision as our school is a mainstream school.
The summer provision is open to all main stream schools which have students who are eligible.
The ratio of 1:6 is too high for my students even with an sna. Alot would really need 1:1 especially if I brought them to the library which was one of the suggestions from the department!!
We are not a Deis school but from memory the ratio for Deis is 1:12 for the summer provision.

The key point being children who are eligible. Schools may not have sufficient eligible children to run the scheme hence the posters school not signing up for it. Eligible children still eligible if school not running the scheme through home provision.

iamwhoiam · 24-07-2020 11:32AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Sitting in the hairdressers topic of conversation lazy ass teachers who don’t want to go back in Sep and who are insisting that no uniform be worn and clothes washed daily. Think Leo et al have set teachers up well - Easy to blame fall guys

ETA the amount of ****e that is being spouted as gospel is astonishing. Zero understanding of the real practical issues facing schools head wrecking doesn’t begin to cover it.

This is the kind of thing that happens because people havent been informed .I see a huge anxiety out there among parents about school opening and how they will manage to go to work .Lots of parents anxious about loosing their jobs because of no school plan etc .Its a huge worry because the Government has been so bad in giving clarity and reassurance .When anxiety sets in then rumors start and people pass on anxiety and worry .

The news last night was really upsetting for many , huge money being spent for business and not one word about the schools until later . Parents , pupils and indeed teacher are now worried as the clock is ticking and its nearly August and most people are really angry that it wasn't organised last April and much of the planning in place by now

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 11:36AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

This is the kind of thing that happens because people havent been informed .I see a huge anxiety out there among parents about school opening and how they will manage to go to work .Lots of parents anxious about loosing their jobs because of no school plan etc .Its a huge worry because the Government has been so bad in giving clarity and reassurance .When anxiety sets in then rumors start and people pass on anxiety and worry .

The news last night was really upsetting for many , huge money being spent for business and not one word about the schools until later . Parents , pupils and indeed teacher are now worried as the clock is ticking and its nearly August and most people are really angry that it wasn't organised last April and much of the planning in place by now

Valid points my issue is why are teachers held responsible ? Teachers made absolutely no suggestion re uniforms or lack of. We also have no say as to when the gov is opening schools. Be angry be annoyed but for gods sake have enough cop on / understanding to blame those actually responsible.

ETA why do we never hear about class size - largest in Europe. Social Distancing has been the topic of conversation for months - why are people not questioning why we can not social distance in school.
Why do we not hear the general public query why our schools do not have access to hot water or why many schools have inadequate bathroom facilities.
There are numerous issues with our education system teachers not wanting to work is not one of them.

jrosen · 24-07-2020 11:38AM

People using facebook as their source or news never helps the facts.

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 12:24PM

jrosen wrote: »

People using facebook as their source or news never helps the facts.

It doesn't but there has been a certain narrative pushed by successive governments and driven by the media for years. The INTO has long campaigned for smaller class sizes - what is that portrayed as - lazy teachers want to do less work and a massaging of numbers to include SET to make ratios look better on paper.

jrosen · 24-07-2020 12:39PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

It doesn't but there has been a certain narrative pushed by successive governments and driven by the media for years. The INTO has long campaigned for smaller class sizes - what is that portrayed as - lazy teachers want to do less work and a massaging of numbers to include SET to make ratios look better on paper.

Cant say I have ever read or heard someone make the link of smaller class sizes to lazy teachers. Quite the opposite in fact. Parents furious at class sizes and openly commenting on how it makes the class more difficult to run for teachers.

scrubs33 · 24-07-2020 12:44PM

http://https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/comprehensive-plan-to-reopen-our-schools-to-be-announced-next-week-taoiseach-39393848.html
Plan for full reopening 5 days a week to be revealed on Monday. No drip feeding of information before then.

wirelessdude01 · 24-07-2020 12:44PM

jrosen wrote: »

Cant say I have ever read or heard someone make the link of smaller class sizes to lazy teachers. Quite the opposite in fact. Parents furious at class sizes and openly commenting on how it makes the class more difficult to run for teachers.

I agree don't think I've ever heard that argument but look likewise I don't think education has ever been made an election issue. People talk a good talk but.....

the corpo · 24-07-2020 12:47PM

scrubs33 wrote: »

http://https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/comprehensive-plan-to-reopen-our-schools-to-be-announced-next-week-taoiseach-39393848.html
Plan for full reopening 5 days a week to be revealed on Monday. No drip feeding of information before then.

I heard his interviews this morning, really don't remember him saying anything about 5 days a week?

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 12:50PM

jrosen wrote: »

Cant say I have ever read or heard someone make the link of smaller class sizes to lazy teachers. Quite the opposite in fact. Parents furious at class sizes and openly commenting on how it makes the class more difficult to run for teachers.

Fair enough - but if it was a hot topic / wide spread then it would be sorted by now. I have yet to come across a newspaper article which questions why our class size is so high given the need for SD since the outbreak of this pandemic. It’s not a topic that has been mentioned by posters on this thread other than one individual posting 15 year old data on class size to counter act teachers referencing it.

scrubs33 · 24-07-2020 12:53PM

In reply to The Corpo
I heard his interview as well so I was surprised to see this in the report from the Indo
A “comprehensive” plan to reopen schools five days a week at the end of August will be unveiled on Monday, Taoiseach Micheál Martin has confirmed.

mirrorwall14 · 24-07-2020 01:01PM

A “comprehensive” plan to reopen schools five days a week at the end of August will be unveiled on Monday, Taoiseach Micheál Martin has confirmed.

The plan will be finalised over the weekend and Mr Martin said he is “very confident we are in a good position ” to reopen fully.

Education Minister Norma Foley confirmed the plan will cater for all students and teachers to return to campus.

So some of this can easily be double speak, all students and teachers to return to campus would be easily true but all students to have full teaching contact time not necessarily true.

However this just isn’t good enough. It is not possible to have secondary schools open full time to students with social distancing. It just isn’t. I see 300 students a week for 40 min class periods at a time in groups largely of 30. So are we scuppering all social distancing? If that’s the case then **** this. Why does every other industry have protections? Even with masks 30 students plus me in a room up to 9 times a day is a massive risk. Unless they have been telling us porkies for the last few months.

I won’t be able to visit my parents for the next nine months because one is immunocompromised if the plan is to scrap social distancing only in schools. At least my son is in primary and there is just one group of 30 in a ‘pod’ he will be interacting with which isn’t ideal but still better than secondary schools

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 01:10PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

A “comprehensive” plan to reopen schools five days a week at the end of August will be unveiled on Monday, Taoiseach Micheál Martin has confirmed.

The plan will be finalised over the weekend and Mr Martin said he is “very confident we are in a good position ” to reopen fully.

Education Minister Norma Foley confirmed the plan will cater for all students and teachers to return to campus.

So some of this can easily be double speak, all students and teachers to return to campus would be easily true but all students to have full teaching contact time not necessarily true.

However this just isn’t good enough. It is not possible to have secondary schools open full time to students with social distancing. It just isn’t. I see 300 students a week for 40 min class periods at a time in groups largely of 30. So are we scuppering all social distancing? If that’s the case then **** this. Why does every other industry have protections? Even with masks 30 students plus me in a room up to 9 times a day is a massive risk. Unless they have been telling us porkies for the last few months.

I won’t be able to visit my parents for the next nine months because one is immunocompromised if the plan is to scrap social distancing only in schools. At least my son is in primary and there is just one group of 30 in a ‘pod’ he will be interacting with which isn’t ideal but still better than secondary schools

Just in relation to one group of 30 in a pod at primary - during class time this will be ok but in relation to breaks don’t think a lot of schools will have the space to accommodate individual pods in the yard even with staggered breaks. A lot will depend on the size if the school / yard size.

Sammy2012 · 24-07-2020 01:14PM

Would the 5 day a week comment mean that all staff will be in 5 days maybe? All children might not be in full time.

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 01:19PM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Would the 5 day a week comment mean that all staff will be in 5 days maybe? All children might not be in full time.

I think if that was the case then there would be a soft drip of info re same so that the public would be accustomed to the idea. Anything less than 5 days a week will have knock on effects on working parents. As far as I can see gov are pursuing a back to work policy hopefully without totally disregarding public health advice.

Sammy2012 · 24-07-2020 01:22PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think if that was the case then there would be a soft drip of info re same so that the public would be accustomed to the idea. Anything less than 5 days a week will have knock on effects on working parents. As far as I can see gov are pursuing a back to work policy hopefully without totally disregarding public health advice.

You are probably right. I remain sceptical until I'm proven otherwise

is_that_so · 24-07-2020 01:23PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think if that was the case then there would be a soft drip of info re same so that the public would be accustomed to the idea. Anything less than 5 days a week will have knock on effects on working parents. As far as I can see gov are pursuing a back to work policy hopefully without totally disregarding public health advice.

Time is against that, it all needs to come out in one go as a (semi-)coherent plan.

average_runner · 24-07-2020 01:26PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

A “comprehensive” plan to reopen schools five days a week at the end of August will be unveiled on Monday, Taoiseach Micheál Martin has confirmed.

The plan will be finalised over the weekend and Mr Martin said he is “very confident we are in a good position ” to reopen fully.

Education Minister Norma Foley confirmed the plan will cater for all students and teachers to return to campus.

So some of this can easily be double speak, all students and teachers to return to campus would be easily true but all students to have full teaching contact time not necessarily true.

However this just isn’t good enough. It is not possible to have secondary schools open full time to students with social distancing. It just isn’t. I see 300 students a week for 40 min class periods at a time in groups largely of 30. So are we scuppering all social distancing? If that’s the case then **** this. Why does every other industry have protections? Even with masks 30 students plus me in a room up to 9 times a day is a massive risk. Unless they have been telling us porkies for the last few months.

I won’t be able to visit my parents for the next nine months because one is immunocompromised if the plan is to scrap social distancing only in schools. At least my son is in primary and there is just one group of 30 in a ‘pod’ he will be interacting with which isn’t ideal but still better than secondary schools

Kids aren't social distancing outside school right now. So no point in having it in the schools

lulublue22 · 24-07-2020 01:28PM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

You are probably right. I remain sceptical until I'm proven otherwise

Tbf who knows! Mon will reveal all I suppose.

the corpo · 24-07-2020 01:29PM

Aye, the only way students from 3rd class to 6th year can return fully to school is if the social distancing recommendation is entirely ignored.

If that is their plan, then I can't imagine I'll let my kids go back... but I can't imagine how we'll cope at home either, and this is where the Department is putting us...

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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