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Reporting on Crime Committed by Travelers

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Comments

  • #2
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    I hope they spell Travellers correctly in the media.


  • #3
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,316 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    I hope they spell Travellers correctly in the media.
    American English vs Hiberno English


  • #4
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    I hope they spell Travellers correctly in the media.

    they have to use the word firstly


  • #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Before this gets moderated because travelers are mentioned I would like to point out that im not looking to discuss travelers just how the media appear to have a double standard on reporting news that is traveler related.

    what is the double standard exactly?


  • #6
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    bubblypop wrote: »
    what is the double standard exactly?

    When crimes are being reported on they dont get called travellers, when other articles are written they are called travellers.


    Some posts here are taking aim at travellers, thats not what im doing, Im just asking about the double standard the media appear to have.


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  • #7
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    [quoted tweet deleted]


    This is it
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tipperary-man-75-jailed-for-20-years-for-rape-of-sister-and-seven-daughters-1005314.html

    They refer to him as the following but wont refer to him as a traveler.

    living in an old-fashioned horse-drawn wagon and later in more modern trailer

    and

    O'Reilly moved the children around the country and in the late 80s they were living around at a location in the south where he continued to abuse them



    Where as here they will refer to the victims as travellers...
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0616/1147697-tipperary-family-rape-case/



    (Just to be clear AGAIN, this isnt about travelers and what they have or havent done, its about how the media sometimes calls and sometimes doesn't call people travelers in different circumstances)


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    When crimes are being reported on they dont get called travellers, when other articles are written they are called travellers.


    Some posts here are taking aim at travellers, thats not what im doing, Im just asking about the double standard the media appear to have.

    So you believe a person's ethnicity should be reported when they commit crimes?
    for example, I commit a crime, should they say
    ' Bubblypop, an Irish citizen, who was born in the UK'
    Is it in anyway relevant?


  • #9
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    It's not just Travellers. You don't generally see reports like "Polish man convicted of assault" or "Nigerian man drove while four times over the limit" either. Newspapers/other media generally just give the name and address, and maybe a photo if the offence is noteworthy enough to warrant it.

    It's all to do with "Incitement to Hatred" stuff. The likes of Pavee Point (in the case of Travellers) or other groups (in the case of non-nationals) wouldn't be long in making accusations that the media outlet is tarring them all with the one brush by saying "Traveller convicted of ...." or "Nigerian guilty of .....". They ask things like "would you say settled person convicted of ....., or Irish man guilty of ......?"

    No such issues when it's a positive story, like Traveller appointed to Seanad, or first Nigerian to be elected to local authority, or some such.


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    also, I think it's fairly obvious to everyone, by names & descriptions if someone is a traveller, or possibly another nationality.
    I'm not sure why you feel the media have to tell us such things


  • #11
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    bubblypop wrote: »
    So you believe a person's ethnicity should be reported when they commit crimes?
    for example, I commit a crime, should they say
    ' Bubblypop, an Irish citizen, who was born in the UK'
    Is it in anyway relevant?

    Why shouldn’t they? Why report the name? Why bother reporting it at all?


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  • #12
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    bubblypop wrote: »
    So you believe a person's ethnicity should be reported when they commit crimes?
    for example, I commit a crime, should they say
    ' Bubblypop, an Irish citizen, who was born in the UK'
    Is it in anyway relevant?

    No im saying it should either be included or not, a persons ethnicity is either relevant or not to every story,and the double standard of excluding it when its a negative story only to allude strongly to it while including a persons ethnicity when its not a negatie story is a strange way to report news


  • #13
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    bubblypop wrote: »
    also, I think it's fairly obvious to everyone, by names & descriptions if someone is a traveller, or possibly another nationality.
    I'm not sure why you feel the media have to tell us such things

    They dont have to tell us, but they do tell us in some instances and not in others.


  • #14
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    It's not just Travellers. You don't generally see reports like "Polish man convicted of assault" or "Nigerian man drove while four times over the limit" either. Newspapers/other media generally just give the name and address, and maybe a photo if the offence is noteworthy enough to warrant it.

    It's all to do with "Incitement to Hatred" stuff. The likes of Pavee Point (in the case of Travellers) or other groups (in the case of non-nationals) wouldn't be long in making accusations that the media outlet is tarring them all with the one brush by saying "Traveller convicted of ...." or "Nigerian guilty of .....". They ask things like "would you say settled person convicted of ....., or Irish man guilty of ......?"

    No such issues when it's a positive story, like Traveller appointed to Seanad, or first Nigerian to be elected to local authority, or some such.


    Not at all, and your just highlighting another aspect of the issue where the media will include a persons ethnicity unless they are travelers.

    https://www.radiokerry.ie/polish-man-sexually-assaulted-female-co-worker-kerry-hotel-jailed/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-24-charged-over-attack-and-robbery-on-woman-19-in-cork-1.4115778?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fman-24-charged-over-attack-and-robbery-on-woman-19-in-cork-1.4115778

    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-accused-sexual-assault-unconscious-woman-dublin-street-4958343-Jan2020/


  • #15
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Maybe if entire groups of people aren't blamed for the actions of a minority and hated for it, fewer among them will reject the society that is so prejudiced against them.

    If you're told you're rubbish your whole life, guess how you're likely to turn out.


  • #16
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,186 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    You can grind that axe elsewhere, as I said ive no interest in demonizing travelers, just the imbalanced way that media here report on it.

    I presume it's related to incitement to hatred laws. Even when it's pertinent to the story, such as a halting site being raised by CAB, it will be reported as "an address in county".

    I'm not sure if it's a correct interpretation of the law but I've argued before that Irish media often take a paternalistic approach to reporting these kind of items. It's like they don't trust the public to not conflate all members of an ethnic group with those caught up in criminality.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    No im saying it should either be included or not, a persons ethnicity is either relevant or not to every story,and the double standard of excluding it when its a negative story only to allude strongly to it while including a persons ethnicity when its not a negatie story is a strange way to report news

    this is the point.
    You believe their ethnicity is relevant to the story when they commit crimes.
    It isn't actually relevant at all. You just think it is.
    If it is a story about how a traveller did well in, education, for example, despite the odds against them, then that is relevant.


  • #18
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Not at all, and your just highlighting another aspect of the issue where the media will include a persons ethnicity unless they are travelers.

    https://www.radiokerry.ie/polish-man-sexually-assaulted-female-co-worker-kerry-hotel-jailed/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-24-charged-over-attack-and-robbery-on-woman-19-in-cork-1.4115778?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fman-24-charged-over-attack-and-robbery-on-woman-19-in-cork-1.4115778

    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-accused-sexual-assault-unconscious-woman-dublin-street-4958343-Jan2020/

    Polish is probably a bad example then, but if I google "Nigerian man guilty", there's only one story from Ireland in the first three pages of results, and if I google "Nigerian man convicted", there are only two.

    Overall, seems that anybody who's "different" enough to have an active group looking out for their "rights" won't have their nationality or ethnicity specified, but other non-Irish people might....so long as they're not too "different".


  • #19
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    bubblypop wrote: »
    this is the point.
    You believe their ethnicity is relevant to the story when they commit crimes.
    It isn't actually relevant at all. You just think it is.
    If it is a story about how a traveller did well in, education, for example, despite the odds against them, then that is relevant.

    Wrong.

    I believe a persons ethnicity is either relevant or not, and the media should approach the reporting of stories with the same policy with regards referencing their ethnicity or not in all stories equally, they dont do it in some but leave the reader in no doubt as to a persons ethnicity in the instances of travelers committing cries.


  • #20
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    Polish is probably a bad example then, but if I google "Nigerian man guilty", there's only one story from Ireland in the first three pages of results, and if I google "Nigerian man convicted", there are only two.

    Overall, seems that anybody who's "different" enough to have an active group looking out for their "rights" won't have their nationality or ethnicity specified, but other non-Irish people might....so long as they're not too "different".

    Maybe thats because Nigerian people are not that common in Ireland and the ones that are here dont commit much crime.


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Wrong.

    I believe a persons ethnicity is either relevant or not, and the media should approach the reporting of stories with the same policy with regards referencing their ethnicity or not in all stories equally, they dont do it in some but leave the reader in no doubt as to a persons ethnicity in the instances of travelers committing cries.

    but that is not what you said, you said it is relevant to the story or not.
    And you were right first time, sometimes it is relevant, but other times it is not.

    If a person moved here in their teens, not speaking a word of English, later in life they became, say Head of the English department of Trinity College, then their ethnicity would without doubt, be relevant to that story.


    Criminals are criminals, who cares what ethnicity they are?


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  • #22
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Maybe thats because Nigerian people are not that common in Ireland and the ones that are here dont commit much crime.

    All right, I give up. :o

    Good luck to the rest of you in carrying on this discussion.


  • #23
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    bubblypop wrote: »
    but that is not what you said, you said it is relevant to the story or not.
    And you were right first time, sometimes it is relevant, but other times it is not.

    If a person moved here in their teens, not speaking a word of English, later in life they became, say Head of the English department of Trinity College, then their ethnicity would without doubt, be relevant to that story.


    Criminals are criminals, who cares what ethnicity they are?


    I think the media are making sure to omit travelers ethnicity from negative reports while also ensuring the reader is able to join the obvious dots to conclude the person is a traveler, while they openly refer to travelers in stories that are not 'negative' and im wondering why they employ this double standard.


  • #24
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    All right, I give up. :o

    Good luck to the rest of you in carrying on this discussion.

    You posted about Polish people and Nigerian people, were shown to be completely wrong about your assertions on polish people and offered a valid reason counteracting your point on Nigerian people. One could go as far as to say you have a number of prejudices.


  • #25
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Give over with the traveler bashing.


  • #26
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    You posted about Polish people and Nigerian people, were shown to be completely wrong about your assertions on polish people and offered a valid reason counteracting your point on Nigerian people. One could go as far as to say you have a number of prejudices.

    I don't usually use many emojis, but I'm going to try the "confused" one now -
    :confused::confused::confused:

    I just know that in my own local paper, their usual practice is not to mention ethnicity or nationality in court cases at all. Of the few court cases in this week's issue alone, there's one of a man with an obviously Eastern European name and another with a name that's obviously Africa in origin, but no mention made of their actual nationalities.

    Similarly, there are separate cases of a woman called Connors and a man called Cash, with address in places that would have large Traveller populations, but nothing to explicitly say "Traveller".

    Then again, you'll probably say I'm just biased to assume these people are non-nationals or Travellers in the first place. :rolleyes:

    Oh look. Another emoji!


  • #27
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    I don't usually use many emojis, but I'm going to try the "confused" one now -
    :confused::confused::confused:

    I just know that in my own local paper, their usual practice is not to mention ethnicity or nationality in court cases at all. Of the few court cases in this week's issue alone, there's one of a man with an obviously Eastern European name and another with a name that's obviously Africa in origin, but no mention made of their actual nationalities.

    Similarly, there are separate cases of a woman called Connors and a man called Cash, with address in places that would have large Traveller populations, but nothing to explicitly say "Traveller".

    Then again, you'll probably say I'm just biased to assume these people are non-nationals or Travellers in the first place. :rolleyes:

    Oh look. Another emoji!

    What paper?


  • #28
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    What difference? Do you not believe me?


  • #29
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    What difference? Do you not believe me?

    Nope


  • #30
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Nope

    Don't know why I should go out of my way to answer you then, since first you accuse me of bias, and now you accuse me of being either a liar or a bullsh** artist.

    But I'll PM you anyway, with the answer you want and an explanation of how I know it, rather than posting publicly about it. Because I'm nice like that. :)

    These emojis are really racking up....!


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  • #31
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,448 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    Don't know why I should go out of my way to answer you then, since first you accuse me of bias, and now you accuse me of being either a liar or a bullsh** artist.

    But I'll PM you anyway, with the answer you want and an explanation of how I know it, rather than posting publicly about it. Because I'm nice like that. :)

    These emojis are really racking up....!



    Just post a link to the paper if its true. Not a big issue if you want to make a statement back it up.


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