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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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Comments

  • #6572
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Need to look at the experience of countries who actually opened up their schools many weeks ago, and the implications of that.

    We are weeks behind them. I wonder if DOE has done any analysis on the infection rates arising in European countries who have opened up their schools?

    I dunno, just musing here.

    Yes I wonder myself if they've actually taken any notice of the benefit we have at looking at countries that have already opened.

    Are our schools going to be the longest closed in Europe bar Italy?


  • #6573
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 917 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    The WHO are talking this evening about a vaccination not being available until early next year and the need to be careful returning kids to school. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-don-t-expect-first-vaccinations-until-early-2021-who-s-ryan-says-1.4311045?mode=amp

    Maybe the answer is to wait until the new Year for schools to reopen. What is 4 more months in the greater scheme of things?


  • #6574
    jlm29
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I am sorry, they should be told to suck it up or make themselves unavailable for work and accept the financial consequences. Nurses and Doctors got on with it, and the education of kids is the next frontline in this, for two reasons - the kids themselves, and to allow parents back to work.

    Healthcare workers had plenty PPE, oceans of training and education, and policies coming out their ears. Nobody asked them to go into work in a cramped portacabin with no hand washing facilities Or sanitiser and just “suck it up”. They flew to China for plane loads of PPE for the healthcare workers, everyone should be entitled to the same. And I say that as a healthcare worker who desperately needs my kids in school because I won’t be at home to educate them myself, not a teacher.


  • #6575
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Yes I wonder myself if they've actually taken any notice of the benefit we have at looking at countries that have already opened.

    Are our schools going to be the longest closed in Europe bar Italy?

    I've looked at some of the schools open in Europe. None are open fully/normally/without some sort of extra measures (none that I saw but open to correction). Those that were lax about measures or removed them seem go have had spikes (eg. Israel, although not in Europe has similar classroom profile to Ireland). I read it in a newspaper article, I'll link there if I can find it.

    I think we'll be open with additional measures as most of Europe seem to have done. Not sure if students will be full time in school. But I'm only speculating.


  • #6576
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    MickeyLeari wrote: »
    The WHO are talking this evening about a vaccination not being available until early next year and the need to be careful returning kids to school. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-don-t-expect-first-vaccinations-until-early-2021-who-s-ryan-says-1.4311045?mode=amp

    Maybe the answer is to wait until the new Year for schools to reopen. What is 4 more months in the greater scheme of things?

    It would be interesting to know at what level the WHO considers community transmission under control. In Ireland at the moment community transmission a/c for 32% of cases, 2% is travel and 66% is close contact. In relation to a vaccine a spokesperson for the oxford vaccine said best case scenario would be Christmas but that general public roll out would not begin till the middle of the year. ( vulnerable groups would obviously be prioritised) So realistically if the vaccine was not ready till the new year it would be a number of months till the vaccine is widely available.


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  • #6577
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,700 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    I'm really angry today. The Government and all the debate currently about Green Lists, Red Lists, inward travel, outward travel.
    The education of our children is 10 times more important than whether we get a sun holiday this year.
    I wish they'd just put a Do Not Travel order in place for now and focus all their attention on getting the schools sorted.
    It feels like education is way down the list of priorities at the moment.
    Mark my words, the schools won't be back in September :(

    To thine own self be true



  • #6578
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Purple Mountain wrote: »
    I'm really angry today. The Government and all the debate currently about Green Lists, Red Lists, inward travel, outward travel.
    The education of our children is 10 times more important than whether we get a sun holiday this year.
    I wish they'd just put a Do Not Travel order in place for now and focus all their attention on getting the schools sorted.
    It feels like education is way down the list of priorities at the moment.
    Mark my words, the schools won't be back in September :(



    I'm hopeful there may at least be a partial return. This of course is not ideal especially for working parents but would at least be a step in the right direction and would give the children some sort of routine / structure / taste of normality.


  • #6579
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,063 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Purple Mountain wrote:
    I'm really angry today. The Government and all the debate currently about Green Lists, Red Lists, inward travel, outward travel. The education of our children is 10 times more important than whether we get a sun holiday this year. I wish they'd just put a Do Not Travel order in place for now and focus all their attention on getting the schools sorted. It feels like education is way down the list of priorities at the moment. Mark my words, the schools won't be back in September


    I'm afraid the critical needs of the economy, the delicate flower it is, far exceed the needs of the humans it's suppose to serve, we truly are a strange breed


  • #6580
    Dickie10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    Where will these extra teachers be got for secondary schools if some school split classes for SD? Its near impossible for schools in commuter belt and Dublin to get teachers at ordinary time, will SNAs be quick trained and brought in the supervise classes? are there many if any teachers out there that cant find work during normal school year? i know contracts are tough to get but work seems plentiful. Its just the casualisation of the teaching profession thats the downside.


  • #6581
    abacus120
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭abacus120


    My daughter needs desperately to know when she is going back as do I for both our sakes, we walked by her school the other day and she said imagine just walking back in the doors, this coming from a child who is not mad about school. I get a knot in my stomach thinking of it all, her principle is still in the school most days, can only imagine The unbelievable stress for schools desperate for help and guidance.


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  • #6582
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Child in summer camp today. Indoors. About 30 odd children, no masks on children. Most people don't care that much anymore in reality.

    However, for both parents and teachers the lack of clarity and a plan is awful. I hope there is some guidance soon as I can understand the concerns of teachers and especially teachers that do not feel in control. Will they be expected to return with no PPE etc.?

    At least when the plan is known both teachers and parents can prepare.

    Looking forward to some guidance.,..


  • #6583
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    It would be interesting to know at what level the WHO considers community transmission under control. In Ireland at the moment community transmission a/c for 32% of cases, 2% is travel and 66% is close contact. In relation to a vaccine a spokesperson for the oxford vaccine said best case scenario would be Christmas but that general public roll out would not begin till the middle of the year. ( vulnerable groups would obviously be prioritised) So realistically if the vaccine was not ready till the new year it would be a number of months till the vaccine is widely available.

    Best case, December. Mid year roll out. End of year general rollout, 2021. If it works, that is.

    So the most promising candidate for a vaccine is, best case, 17 months away.

    That's pushing 2 years for no schooling for Irish kids. Best case.


  • #6584
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    ... the first day of teacher self-certified sick leave does not entitle a school to a sub? Typically you'd handle this by splitting a class up into groups and sending them to different classrooms with work packs. Can't do that next year presumably...so what do you do with them? Put the SET teacher in to cover the class and deprive kids with additional needs of their support? Do you put the principal in (which a teaching principal can't do)? Do you send them home?
    Lots of schools said they would close schools on H&S grounds when sub cover wasn't available or during strike days in mixed union schools. I'd say the same will have to happen this year if money not allocated to subs, or if/when the subs aren't available.

    Maybe there are more in the rural areas but there are no teachers hanging around Dublin paying huge rents or mortgages, hanging around waiting for a few stray hours.


  • #6585
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    History Queen wrote: »
    I've looked at some of the schools open in Europe. None are open fully/normally/without some sort of extra measures (none that I saw but open to correction). Those that were lax about measures or removed them seem go have had spikes (eg. Israel, although not in Europe has similar classroom profile to Ireland). I read it in a newspaper article, I'll link there if I can find it.

    I think we'll be open with additional measures as most of Europe seem to have done. Not sure if students will be full time in school. But I'm only speculating.

    Edit: link to article that gives idea of measures taken by some countries

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/is-it-safe-to-reopen-schools-other-european-countries-are-finding-out-1.4253645

    What does additional measures actually mean?

    There hasnt been a single suggested solution to the physical distancing problem, created by the public health advice...


  • #6586
    Strath2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 ✭Strath2020


    They have to go back with PPE at the bare minimum. Teens will have to wear masks at school and can take them off when outside. Secondary schools need to go back a few days a wwwk and try it.
    I am unsure at how a boarding school environment will be able to reopen safely With lads coming from all over the country. It is considered the home of the lads during term time so there cannot be sd 24/7. They cannot wash their uniforms everyday (as was advised) there. In that environment they will need to random test both asymptomatic and obviously those with symptoms. I don’t feel there’s any clear guidance for the teachers parents and kids. It looks like it will be up to individual schools to police.


  • #6587
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    Child in summer camp today. Indoors. About 30 odd children, no masks on children. Most people don't care that much anymore in reality.

    However, for both parents and teachers the lack of clarity and a plan is awful. I hope there is some guidance soon as I can understand the concerns of teachers and especially teachers that do not feel in control. Will they be expected to return with no PPE etc.?

    At least when the plan is known both teachers and parents can prepare.

    Looking forward to some guidance.,..

    Why is it taking so long for a workable plan?


  • #6588
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    MickeyLeari wrote: »
    Maybe the answer is to wait until the new Year for schools to reopen. What is 4 more months in the greater scheme of things?

    And just write off basically a year of school?

    People are at breaking point, children want to go back and working parents will find it increasingly difficult to continue to be flexible.

    Dole queues grow, countries debt grows, mental health issues in adults and kids are already increasing at a startling rate, children are left behind education wise and god love anyone with a child who has additional needs, they have had no support.

    Throw another 4 months onto that and things will just start to disintegrate faster and it reduces the possibility of ever returning to normal for some folk.

    And when the new year comes and goes and things are still the same, sure we can add on another 6 months and see how that goes.

    No, it's not right that our schools remained closed for almost 6 months and they certainly can't remain closed until next year. We need to do what we can to get on with things while doing our best to minimise transmission, that applies to everything in life right now not just schools.


  • #6589
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    And just write off basically a year of school?

    People are at breaking point, children want to go back and working parents will find it increasingly difficult to continue to be flexible.

    Dole queues grow, countries debt grows, mental health issues in adults and kids are already increasing at a startling rate, children are left behind education wise and god love anyone with a child who has additional needs, they have had no support.

    Throw another 4 months onto that and things will just start to disintegrate faster and it reduces the possibility of ever returning to normal for some folk.

    And when the new year comes and goes and things are still the same, sure we can add on another 6 months and see how that goes.

    No, it's not right that our schools remained closed for almost 6 months and they certainly can't remain closed until next year. We need to do what we can to get on with things while doing our best to minimise transmission, that applies to everything in life right now not just schools.

    I pointed out similar problems and was accused of being a troll,
    I was told it was only ''working class hero sob stories!''
    I fear the problem here is Public Servants ''pulling up the ladder''


  • #6590
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    What does additional measures actually mean?

    There hasnt been a single suggested solution to the physical distancing problem, created by the public health advice...

    Looking at what other countries have done additional measures has included some of the following; PPE, handwashing facilities, smaller groups to accommodate social distancing ( we can't staff this so I'd imagine if we went this route it'd mean students not attending full time) , staggered start and finish times, temperature checks, moving some schooling to bigger community spaces etc.

    Just to be clear I'm not advocating for any of these in particular, and understand some wouldn't work in our context I'm just answering your question in relation to what additional measures means, at least in other countries.


  • #6591
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    wrangler wrote: »
    I pointed out similar problems and was accused of being a troll,
    I was told it was only ''working class hero sob stories!''
    I fear the problem here is Public Servants ''pulling up the ladder''

    If I remember correctly your points were made in the context of teachers not wanting school to reopen? (Unless I've mixed you up with another poster, apologies if so)

    Teachers (in general, I'm sure there are exceptions) want to go back to school in as least disruptive a fashion as possible. I don't think any teacher wants school closures to continue. Distance learning isn't something we are trained in en masse and neither us or our students have enough experience in it to make it effective in the long term. Blended learning would be an improvement from an education standpoint but I'd imagine would still be a poor relation to a full time contact environment. And obviously anything short of full time return will be hugely disruptive to families who don't have someone to mind children when not at school.


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  • #6592
    ChelseaRentBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ChelseaRentBoy


    MickeyLeari wrote: »
    The WHO are talking this evening about a vaccination not being available until early next year and the need to be careful returning kids to school. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-don-t-expect-first-vaccinations-until-early-2021-who-s-ryan-says-1.4311045?mode=amp

    Maybe the answer is to wait until the new Year for schools to reopen. What is 4 more months in the greater scheme of things?

    I'm in no doubt the schools won't be opening in September and early next year will be very optimistic. If schools are back open in March I'd see that as a huge victory.


  • #6593
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    I'm in no doubt the schools won't be opening in September and early next year will be very optimistic. If schools are back open in March I'd see that as a huge victory.

    Why wouldn't we open in some capacity? I admit I can see it being very different but cannot see any reasoning for not opening at all.


  • #6594
    ChelseaRentBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ChelseaRentBoy


    History Queen wrote: »
    Why wouldn't we open in some capacity? I admit I can see it being very different but cannot see any reasoning for not opening at all.

    Two words. Teachers unions.


  • #6595
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,444 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    Two words. Teachers unions.

    🙄


  • #6596
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    Two words. Teachers unions.

    Why would the unions not want schools open?


  • #6597
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    At this stage I fear the kids going back and I fear them not going back. I think more and more of us will be crippled with fear with all the maybe this, maybe that going around & around in our minds. If that's how the LC students felt, I can now understand their stress. Saying schools will reopen in Sept tells us nothing really. The question is in what capacity. I would just like the outline of a plan regarding the title of this thread so that we can all just go ok this is what's happening for real and start working towards that. I'm almost at the stage now where I don't care what the plan is, I just want something to work with.


  • #6598
    jetfiremuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,469 ✭✭✭jetfiremuck


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    I'm in no doubt the schools won't be opening in September and early next year will be very optimistic. If schools are back open in March I'd see that as a huge victory.

    lets not forget the lack of child care facilities and places for said teachers and their families, and the associated hassle with that. By the way has anyone seen them moving desks etc preparing to reopen. Itll be the same drip drip feed for ffg


  • #6599
    ChelseaRentBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ChelseaRentBoy


    History Queen wrote: »
    Why would the unions not want schools open?

    No union is going to let their members be put in harms way. If you know anything about the teaching unions you'll know this.


  • #6600
    happyday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭happyday


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    Where will these extra teachers be got for secondary schools if some school split classes for SD? Its near impossible for schools in commuter belt and Dublin to get teachers at ordinary time, will SNAs be quick trained and brought in the supervise classes? are there many if any teachers out there that cant find work during normal school year? i know contracts are tough to get but work seems plentiful. Its just the casualisation of the teaching profession thats the downside.

    The SNA contract does not allow SNAs to supervise a class in place of a teacher. I'd imagine it would be a huge palaver to get that changed.

    Getting substitute SNAs is very difficult too as there is no centralised method of doing it. It depends on word of mouth and what CVs have been dropped in to the school.

    Nice to see a mention of the 16,000 SNAs we have in Ireland here though.


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  • #6601
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    No union is going to let their members be put in harms way. If you know anything about the teaching unions you'll know this.

    Harms way.

    Anyone going into work for all of time puts themselves in harms way.

    Work for everyone has risks and hazards.

    Honestly at this stage the excuses are embarrassing.


This discussion has been closed.
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