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If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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  • #902
    Blanco100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Blanco100


    Biker79 wrote: »
    A client of the company I work for has opened up their offices, ending their pandemic WFH arrangements.

    This is a high value services company, staffed with some capable people with a high turnover. Its run very well.

    All of them have returned and there will be no post pandemic WFH options that werent there before the lockdown. Whats more, they are all happy with this arrangement. Their competitors in the same industry will be following suit.

    It seems there are a lot of MDs out there that do not value WFH in the way that was expected.

    Whats the type of business? Their high turnover may become high turnover of staff if they don't adapt.

    If you can effectively do your job to same standard and deadlines as if you were in office, then a company simply isnt moving with the times.

    Completely understand some roles necessitate being on site though.


  • #903
    Biker79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Biker79


    Blanco100 wrote: »
    Whats the type of business?

    Aircraft leasing.


  • #904
    andrew1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    Back to the office for the 23 or so of us 10th August , email sent today to everyone from the management
    Redesign of the office , seats 2 metres apart , plastic screens at each work station, no gathering in the kitchen for lunch breaks etc .

    Training on health and safety and Covid practices to be complete online week before we return .

    Full crew of us all return same day and normal office hours again going forward .

    We worked fine remotely all of us , everything done and more of our workload . The culture is “ have them in the office “, MD is old school .

    Back to my 2 hour round trip commute per day and 55 euro or so a week on diesel .

    Working from home made such a positive impact to my wellbeing , 19 years commuting , was such a difference the time back I gained at home ,leaving aside the running costs of the car .

    But considering the jobs market and how things might look going forward for the economy, I won’t grumble too much compared to situations others are facing .


  • #905
    Jim Root
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    Back to the office for the 23 or so of us 10th August , email sent today to everyone from the management
    Redesign of the office , seats 2 metres apart , plastic screens at each work station, no gathering in the kitchen for lunch breaks etc .

    Training on health and safety and Covid practices to be complete online week before we return .

    Full crew of us all return same day and normal office hours again going forward .

    We worked fine remotely all of us , everything done and more of our workload . The culture is “ have them in the office “, MD is old school .

    Back to my 2 hour round trip commute per day and 55 euro or so a week on diesel .

    Working from home made such a positive impact to my wellbeing , 19 years commuting , was such a difference the time back I gained at home ,leaving aside the running costs of the car .

    But considering the jobs market and how things might look going forward for the economy, I won’t grumble too much compared to situations others are facing .


    Going back 5 days fully is backward thinking & it’s very much old school bosses who want things back the way they were.

    Most companies I know off are gently tipping their toe in the water with minimum days in the office, majority WFH.


  • #906
    unhappys10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Aircraft leasing.

    Luckily everyone doesn't think the same as that company's management.
    I work in aircraft leasing and from next month there will be voluntary attendance at the office. My wife is in a vulnerable category so I reckon I'm out for rest of the year.
    We have had no loss of productivity, if anything our work rate has increased and I have come up with a new formula driven excel template which will shave days off the finance teams monthly work load.
    Our CEO has said he doesn't mind where we work once the work gets done and WFH will be a feature into the future.

    As another poster above said, any employers who don't adapt will see employees go where they can get flexible arrangements.

    I could never see myself going back to an office full time after this. If they want me back a day or two a week fair enough but I won't go back full time.
    If they tried to force it (which they won't) I'd simply go elsewhere.


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  • #907
    andrew1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    Jim Root wrote: »
    Going back 5 days fully is backward thinking & it’s very much old school bosses who want things back the way they were.

    Most companies I know off are gently tipping their toe in the water with minimum days in the office, majority WFH.

    Yes , fully agree with you there . Our MD is a decent fella but won’t embrace new ways of working . He likes to micro manage everything and has the air of a school head master watching over his pupils in class every day .
    I’ve a good salary there , start and finish early each day to beat some of the traffic ( that was his way of being flexible ) , so I won’t be budging unless I get something in my home town . I’ve been searching 19 years , nothing for my line of work really in my home town


  • #908
    tony1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭tony1980


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    Yes , fully agree with you there . Our MD is a decent fella but won’t embrace new ways of working . He likes to micro manage everything and has the air of a school head master watching over his pupils in class every day .
    I’ve a good salary there , start and finish early each day to beat some of the traffic ( that was his way of being flexible ) , so I won’t be budging unless I get something in my home town . I’ve been searching 19 years , nothing for my line of work really in my home town

    Time for him to retire perhaps?


  • #909
    andrew1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    tony1980 wrote: »
    Time for him to retire perhaps?

    I wish , still have a good few years of the dreaded commute ahead of me still unfortunately.

    As for the MD, another 10 years left in him I’d say , fingers crossed he might develop a culture change going forward .
    2 days a week even from home would be superb .


  • #910
    unhappys10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    I wish , still have a good few years of the dreaded commute ahead of me still unfortunately.

    Move somewhere in the same location that gives you some wfh?


  • #911
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    I’ve a good salary there , start and finish early each day to beat some of the traffic ( that was his way of being flexible ) , so I won’t be budging unless I get something in my home town . I’ve been searching 19 years , nothing for my line of work really in my home town

    Why not WFH for a company based where your current one is? Location doesn't matter much then. Must be commutable enough to show up for an odd meeting is all.


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  • #912
    andrew1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    Move somewhere in the same location that gives you some wfh?

    Yes for sure , will be keeping my eye out and do regularly on the job search locally and working from home option . I’ll sit tight to see how the next 12 months or so pan out .


  • #913
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    I won't be back in the office until January at the earliest as is the same for several hundred of my colleagues

    When we do go back, it's likely to be a couple of days a month

    Productivity has shot up with wfh

    Work in IT


  • #914
    tony1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭tony1980


    We still have the option and sounds like it will be for at least a few months. Some have gone back in but on alternate weeks as it’s a small office but it’s voluntary! I have someone in a vulnerable category at home so I’d say awhile for me. I’ve been more productive from home due to no distractions but wouldn’t mind a couple of days a week in the office long term as I miss the social element!

    Work in IT too but as an Analyst.


  • #915
    NewMan1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭NewMan1982


    About 65% of my office work from home due to covid. We are a multinational, they have already said it’s back to normal when covid is over. Everyone in the office every day.
    It’s a pity.


  • #916
    andrew1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    Move somewhere in the same location that gives you some wfh?

    Yes , been watching the jobs market and hopefully something comes up eventually.
    5 days a week in the office commuting 19 years , the lockdown gave me a new perspective on things .
    All our productivity has increased , this is acknowledged by the management, just the old school mentality of bums on seats is the ethos we have .

    I have online calls one full morning and one full afternoon per week , and calls various other time’s of the days in the week , I’ll know be sitting in an office ( meeting rooms off limit now due to Covid restrictions) , all of us talking into headsets and breaking each other’s concentration, when I know I could do the call better sitting at my kitchen table as we all have for the past 5 months .Ive to drive into the office now as such to be seen sitting there and on the phone , madness when you think of it .


  • #917
    tony1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭tony1980


    These guys need to trust their employees to do their job, if it’s project related, it’s very obvious if they aren’t so then sack and hire someone new.


  • #918
    unhappys10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    Yes , been watching the jobs market and hopefully something comes up eventually.
    5 days a week in the office commuting 19 years , the lockdown gave me a new perspective on things .
    All our productivity has increased , this is acknowledged by the management, just the old school mentality of bums on seats is the ethos we have .

    I have online calls one full morning and one full afternoon per week , and calls various other time’s of the days in the week , I’ll know be sitting in an office ( meeting rooms off limit now due to Covid restrictions) , all of us talking into headsets and breaking each other’s concentration, when I know I could do the call better sitting at my kitchen table as we all have for the past 5 months .Ive to drive into the office now as such to be seen sitting there and on the phone , madness when you think of it .

    Is there no talking to them and explaining the benefits all round of staying at home?


  • #919
    andrew1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    Is there no talking to them and explaining the benefits all round of staying at home?

    The attitude is / was ... if we give it to one we have to give it to all .

    Let’s see how the next few months shape up and if their attitude to working from home changes .
    Our work was critical during the pandemic and we excelled and delivered everything asked of us and more , all sitting at our own kitchen tables .


  • #920
    unhappys10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    The attitude is / was ... if we give it to one we have to give it to all .

    Let’s see how the next few months shape up and if their attitude to working from home changes .
    Our work was critical during the pandemic and we excelled and delivered everything asked of us and more , all sitting at our own kitchen tables .

    You're right, it's actually crazy the attitude they have. How can they not see the benefits


  • #921
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    The attitude is / was ... if we give it to one we have to give it to all .

    Let’s see how the next few months shape up and if their attitude to working from home changes .
    Our work was critical during the pandemic and we excelled and delivered everything asked of us and more , all sitting at our own kitchen tables .

    Will they expect the same productivity when the commute is back on? Interesting times.


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  • #922
    andrew1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    strandroad wrote: »
    Will they expect the same productivity when the commute is back on? Interesting times.

    I’ll be arriving at work just before start time and leaving for home on time every evening to get a head start on the heavy traffic .
    Working from home I regularly stayed online a bit longer / started earlier ,checked work later in the evening and gave a bit extra , saving time from the driving I didn’t mind .Add in the restrictions of the office going forward , meeting rooms closed off , more frustration and less concentration is what I can see.


  • #923
    riclad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Let's say there's 3 or 4 people sharing a house,
    Working from home is gonna be tough, you either work in a bedroom,
    or else share a front room with at least 2 other people.
    It's not going to practical if you need to make lots of zoom, Skype calls.
    You could end up spending most of the day in 1 room. That's not designed as an office.
    With no space for a desk or proper chair like they have in an office.
    I think most company's will need staff to come in 1 or 2 days a week.
    If you work for most company's they will expect you to live in Ireland .
    Maybe in 2 years time things will return to normal . No one knows how long it will take to make a vaccine.


  • #924
    tony1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭tony1980


    riclad wrote: »
    Let's say there's 3 or 4 people sharing a house,
    Working from home is gonna be tough, you either work in a bedroom,
    or else share a front room with at least 2 other people.
    It's not going to practical if you need to make lots of zoom, Skype calls.
    You could end up spending most of the day in 1 room. That's not designed as an office.
    With no space for a desk or proper chair like they have in an office.
    I think most company's will need staff to come in 1 or 2 days a week.
    If you work for most company's they will expect you to live in Ireland .
    Maybe in 2 years time things will return to normal . No one knows how long it will take to make a vaccine.

    Managed it with kids in the house with no school and I’ve often been on a zoom call with customers where someone has apologized for kids randomly making noise. Was quick to sort and never an issue. Everyone adapted easily in my experience!

    Edit: our company let us take office chairs and monitors. I realize not all night have but they should have.


  • #925
    The Spider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    Back to the office for the 23 or so of us 10th August , email sent today to everyone from the management
    Redesign of the office , seats 2 metres apart , plastic screens at each work station, no gathering in the kitchen for lunch breaks etc .

    Training on health and safety and Covid practices to be complete online week before we return .

    Full crew of us all return same day and normal office hours again going forward .

    We worked fine remotely all of us , everything done and more of our workload . The culture is “ have them in the office “, MD is old school .

    Back to my 2 hour round trip commute per day and 55 euro or so a week on diesel .

    Working from home made such a positive impact to my wellbeing , 19 years commuting , was such a difference the time back I gained at home ,leaving aside the running costs of the car .

    But considering the jobs market and how things might look going forward for the economy, I won’t grumble too much compared to situations others are facing .

    Look for a new job, seriously I know times are weird,but if I was you Id be looking, now you know you prefer remote, go make it happen, always remember no one owns you, you're selling your services to give you what you want not what a company wants to hive you.


  • #926
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,526 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    tony1980 wrote: »
    Managed it with kids in the house with no school and I’ve often been on a zoom call with customers where someone has apologized for kids randomly making noise. Was quick to sort and never an issue. Everyone adapted easily in my experience!

    Edit: our company let us take office chairs and monitors. I realize not all night have but they should have.

    Fine for people who have enough space in their houses for office chairs - but many don't.

    People making allowances for dogs / kids in the background is fine in pandemic circumstances, but won't last forever. Not being responsible for kids during work hours will soon enough be a requirement.


  • #927
    Biker79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Biker79


    The Spider wrote: »
    Look for a new job, seriously I know times are weird,but if I was you Id be looking, now you know you prefer remote, go make it happen, always remember no one owns you, you're selling your services to give you what you want not what a company wants to hive you.

    There arent as many options as you might think. Other companies wont neccessarily be offering something different.

    If anythign we could see most companies hunkering down, reluctant to try untested ways of working. 5 months isnt long enough to test WFH as a permanent option. They know what to expect when everyone has to work from the office. Its manageable.


  • #928
    The Spider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Fine for people who have enough space in their houses for office chairs - but many don't.

    People making allowances for dogs / kids in the background is fine in pandemic circumstances, but won't last forever. Not being responsible for kids during work hours will soon enough be a requirement.

    Ha ha, yeah it'll only ge a requirement for companies that can railroad their staff into going what they want, ie unskilled workers, anyone who has skills that are in demand is not going to put up with that, and will move on.

    If creches and schools aren't open, what are people supposed to do?

    Way I see it is if a company wants that, well then they need to up the salary do that a household can survive on one salary and one parent can keep an eye on the kids while the other works. Of course that won't happen, so the reality is as soon as a company starts making those demands, High skilled workers will leave for better opportunities.


  • #929
    fret_wimp2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭fret_wimp2


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Fine for people who have enough space in their houses for office chairs - but many don't.

    If someone wants to WFH, its their responsibility to ensure they can do so comfortably, and if that includes having space for a fancy chair or not, is down to that person. if they feel lack of space for a big chair prevents them being able to avail of WFH, then they should go back to the office once that option becomes available.
    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    People making allowances for dogs / kids in the background is fine in pandemic circumstances, but won't last forever. Not being responsible for kids during work hours will soon enough be a requirement.
    I find the opposite, people dont mind. People want to get work done, and the occasional kid shouting or dog barking wont get in the way for professionals.

    I can only speak for our experience, but i have a toddler running around and am no less productive. many on the team have kids and are no less productive. if anything, we all know each other a bit better now from seeing our various circumstances and its actually brought more empathy and flexibility to the team. If a company is getting pissy about a child interrupting 2 mins of an hour meeting every now and again, I probably wouldnt fit into the culture there. YMMV.
    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Not being responsible for kids during work hours will soon enough be a requirement.
    It will be a requirement as soon as creche's and schools are viable again and not before, at which point parents will hopefully be happy to have their kids back with their friends and under a structured learning programme.


    In the organization i work, and all of my friends, without exception, WFH is now a long term viable option. Productivity has not suffered, some of their companies are even closing down city center offices saving on costs, all are comfortable with employees working from home, as long as theres some flexibility to be in the office on occasion where necessary.

    People in my org have even moved out of Dublin and back nearer family based on the new view of WFH.

    Perhaps my group of friends and the various organizations we work for are the exception though, and everyone else will be ordered back to their desks at the earliest option.


  • #930
    The Spider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Biker79 wrote: »
    There arent as many options as you might think. Other companies wont neccessarily be offering something different.

    If anythign we could see most companies hunkering down, reluctant to try untested ways of working. 5 months isnt long enough to test WFH as a permanent option. They know what to expect when everyone has to work from the office. Its manageable.

    Again all depends on what you do, and I have no doubt there may not be as many opportunities, but that shouldn't prevent you from doing a search below the radar just to get a general idea of whats out there,you never know could be something great, or it could make you appreciate what you have even more.


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  • #931
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,816 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    I have come up with a new formula driven excel template which will shave days off the finance teams monthly work load.

    one assumes you would have come up with the template regardless ?


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