How will schools be able to go back in September?

khalessi · 16-07-2020 12:57AM

markodaly wrote: »

It's cultural as well, due to our history and family dynamics. Sure a Granny or Aunt can look after the kids while mom and dad goes to work, and a 'creche' is just an extension of that.

Creches educate and carry out montesorri education. They are fabulous and mix childcare and education in an excellent way and the workers have degrees in early childhood education and are not paid enough.

Pity you know so little about them and seem to have little regard for them. I was delighted with the creche my children went to and still attend as they have a fabulous afterschool programme. I just hope it will be available in September.

markodaly · 16-07-2020 01:00AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Why would either of those unions be interested in those areas as they would have zero members there? You really have no clue.

Exactly, yet we are also led to belive anytime on of their representatives goes on the media that they are really looking after the interests of the kids they teach and Irish educations. They paint themselves as key bulwark of Irish education, yet the most outdated and unfunded part of Irish education, they do zero to advance it.
As the saying goes, don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining

People look after their own area.

And this is the inertia we are talking about, which describes Irish education very much. There is little overall or holistic approach to it where each group defends and holds onto their own patch at the moment. You think this is normal, but let me tell you its not. You only think its normal because its the only thing you know.

It's not your fault per say, its what you know and grew up in but there is a serious cultural and socio-economic issues in Irish education on who are the advocates for children and who are the teachers, interia that has built up for decades, which is now coming home to roost.

Then, some people get sore when I point out the lack of capable leadership in Irish education as a whole. Teachers et al, should really take a step back and look at the entire sector and compare it with many other countries, which appear to be more nimble, agile and willing to take pragmatic decisions to get schools open again.

DoE floundering at the wheel.
Boards of Management going on half-backed solo runs
Unions missing in action unless there is a pay claim
Some decent teachers and parents in the middle scratching their heads, waiting for someone to step up to the plate.

markodaly · 16-07-2020 01:09AM

khalessi wrote: »

Creches educate and carry out montesorri education.

Eh no. A Montessori is different from a standard Creche. The fact you do not even know the basics tells it all.

A creche is NOT a Montessori. You may as well have called a primary school a creche.

They are fabulous and mix childcare and education in an excellent way and the workers have degrees in early childhood education and are not paid enough.

Montessori's are good and have been around for decades. I know of them well. The problem is that there are too few of them, their age range is too small. And of course there is a funding issue.

Pity you know so little about them and seem to have little regard for them. I was delighted with the creche my children went to and still attend as they have a fabulous afterschool programme. I just hope it will be available in September.

At least I know that a creche is not a Montessori.
I am not denying that there are some good preschool education options around, but how much did you pay for the privilege? How much were the people there earning per hour?

You are an educated person with a job. Do you not think everyone should be entitled to the same standard of ELCC care you had?

khalessi · 16-07-2020 01:10AM

markodaly wrote: »

Eh no. A Montessori is different from a standard Creche. The fact you do not even know the basics tells it all.

A creche is NOT a Montessori. You may as well have called a primary school a creche.

Montessori's are good and have been around for decades. I know of them well. The problem is that there are too few of them, their age range is too small. And of course there is a funding issue.

At least I know that a creche is not a Montessori.
I am not denying that there are some good preschool education options around, but how much did you pay for the privilege? How much were the people there earning per hour?

You are an educated person with a job. Do you not think everyone should be entitled to the same standard of ELCC care you had?

Creches have montesorris and run them very well so well done on showing what you dont know

Smacruairi · 16-07-2020 01:11AM

markodaly wrote: »

Exactly, yet we are also led to belive anytime on of their representatives goes on the media that they are really looking after the interests of the kids they teach and Irish educations. They paint themselves as key bulwark of Irish education, yet the most outdated and unfunded part of Irish education, they do zero to advance it.
As the saying goes, don't piss on my left and tell

And this is the inertia we are talking about, which describes Irish education very much. There is little overall or holistic approach to it where each group defends and holds onto their own patch at the moment. You think this is normal, but let me tell you its not. You only think its normal because its the only thing you know.

It's not your fault per say, its what you know and grew up in but there is a serious cultural and socio-economic issues in Irish education on who are the advocates for children and who are the teachers, interia that has built up for decades, which is now coming home to roost.

Then, some people get sore when I point out the lack of capable leadership in Irish education as a whole. Teachers et al, should really take a step back and look at the entire sector and compare it with many other countries, which appear to be more nimble, agile and willing to take pragmatic decisions to get schools open again.

DoE floundering at the wheel.
Boards of Management going on half-backed solo runs
Unions missing in action unless there is a pay claim
Some decent teachers and parents in the middle scratching their heads, waiting for someone to step up to the plate.

Step up to what plate? You've been told time and time again that schools, the inspectorate, the unions, health officials, the parents council, even the new students Union submitted their suggestions. It is in the lap of the department now. They are clearly waiting until August to announce their findings as A:schools are closed. B: waiting to see what happens with the virus. Just because you're not in the conversation doesn't mean it's not happening.

Again, you only have to look at another recent example of pubs. Opened early, sham idea of "substantial meal", other pubs not allowed open, absolute dogs dinner made and everyone is annoyed. Do you really think that no one is working on plans?

And please, for the love of God, please drop the union nonsense. They have as much power in the decision making as parents. You only have to look at the whole calculated grades debacle to see that. Please move on. You seem an intelligent bloke, but your blind hatred of teachers totally distorts your viewpoint, almost to parody.

markodaly · 16-07-2020 01:19AM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Honestly, who comes up with this nonsense? People tying themselves in bloody knots, some curtain twitcher emailing the school or whatever saying 'have you thought about this...'. Utterly, utterly ridiculous.

There seems to be a lot of that. Self-appointed experts freely giving their opinions on what should and what should not be done. Hence the cluster **** at the moment where Ireland is still the only country in the EU that does not have any schools open.
Again, total lack of leadership.

khalessi · 16-07-2020 01:21AM

markodaly wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of that. Self-appointed experts freely giving their opinions on what should and what should not be done. Hence the cluster **** at the moment where Ireland is still the only country in the EU that does not have any schools open.
Again, total lack of leadership.

Would you include yourself there as a lot of people would agree that you talk rubbish when it comes to education and seem to hold a grudge against teachers.

markodaly · 16-07-2020 01:22AM

khalessi wrote: »

Creches have montesorris and run them very well so well done on showing what you dont know

Some schools have after school care, would we call schools daycare now?

Go talk to a Montessori teacher and tell them that they work in a 'creche'.
Their response should clarify things for you.

markodaly · 16-07-2020 01:25AM

khalessi wrote: »

Would you include yourself there as a lot of people would agree that you talk rubbish when it comes to education and seem to hold a grudge against teachers.

I never said I was an expert, but I will call out the lack of leadership and the obvious inertia in Irish education.

Do you not find it at all odd, that we are still talking about opening up schools in September when most other EU countries managed to figure this out in May?

Oh, but the DoE, oh but funding, oh but classroom sizes....
The same, 'Ireland is unique in the world' type excuses that don't wash with most parents.

khalessi · 16-07-2020 01:25AM

markodaly wrote: »

Some schools have after school care, would we call schools daycare now?

Go talk to a Montessori teacher and tell them that they work in a 'creche'.
Their response should clarify things for you.

Dearest go talk to the montesorri teacher working in a crech running montesorri classes.

Let me help
results when you google creche, alot of creche and montesorris come up
https://www.google.ie/search?ei=7JsPX-qVN9HsxgPhireYBQ&q=creche&oq=creche&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzILCAAQsQMQgwEQkQIyBQgAELEDMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA6BAgAEEc6BAgAEA06BggAEA0QHjoICAAQFhAKEB46BggAEBYQHjoFCAAQkQJQjpEfWIehH2DSox9oAHABeAGAAccCiAHMDJIBCDExLjMuMC4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjqu-
7nvtDqAhVRtnEKHWHFDVMQ4dUDCAw&uact=5

results for creche and montesorris
https://www.google.ie/search?source=hp&ei=5ZsPX6fmDJGD8gK4y4vgDA&q=creche+and+montesorri&oq=creche+and+montesorri&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIECAAQDTIECAAQDTIGCAAQDRAeMgYIABANEB4yBggAEA0QHjIGCAAQDRAeMgYIABANEB4yBggAEA0QHjIGCAAQDRAeMgYIABANEB46CAgAELEDEIMBOgUIABCxAzoCCAA6BAgAEAM6BggAEBYQHjoICAAQFhAKEB5Q-gNYnDRg6zdoAnAAeACAAWeIAe0OkgEEMjIuMZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjn7JjkvtDqAhWRgVwKHbjlAswQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

Strange a lot of the same places appear

khalessi · 16-07-2020 01:28AM

markodaly wrote: »

I never said I was an expert, but I will call out the lack of leadership and the obvious inertia in Irish education.

Do you not find it at all odd, that we are still talking about opening up schools in September when most other EU countries managed to figure this out in May?

Oh, but the DoE, oh but funding, oh but classroom sizes....
The same, 'Ireland is unique in the world' type excuses that don't wash with most parents.

I find it odd that you can slag off education and be very negative about it and nothing is done. It is one of many things I find odd.

I also find it odd for an educated person you ffail to understand deliberately that schools are just asking for the same protections as other sectors reopening and nothing that other schools have got around the world. In fact we are asking for less as we know the Dept is not interested.

But sure you have a one track band wagon so continue to beat your drum about unions etc.

Smacruairi · 16-07-2020 01:42AM

khalessi wrote: »

I find it odd that you can slag off education and be very negative about it and nothing is done. It is one of many things I find odd.

I also find it odd for an educated person you ffail to understand deliberately that schools are just asking for the same protections as other sectors reopening and nothing that other schools have got around the world. In fact we are asking for less as we know the Dept is not interested.

But sure you have a one track band wagon so continue to beat your drum about unions etc.

Think that should be the last of the engagements from everyone with that poster.

markodaly · 16-07-2020 01:45AM

khalessi wrote: »

Dearest go talk to the montesorri teacher working in a crech running montesorri classes.

Let me help
results when you google creche, alot of creche and montesorris come up
https://www.google.ie/search?ei=7JsPX-qVN9HsxgPhireYBQ&q=creche&oq=creche&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzILCAAQsQMQgwEQkQIyBQgAELEDMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA6BAgAEEc6BAgAEA06BggAEA0QHjoICAAQFhAKEB46BggAEBYQHjoFCAAQkQJQjpEfWIehH2DSox9oAHABeAGAAccCiAHMDJIBCDExLjMuMC4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjqu-
7nvtDqAhVRtnEKHWHFDVMQ4dUDCAw&uact=5

results for creche and montesorris
https://www.google.ie/search?source=hp&ei=5ZsPX6fmDJGD8gK4y4vgDA&q=creche+and+montesorri&oq=creche+and+montesorri&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIECAAQDTIECAAQDTIGCAAQDRAeMgYIABANEB4yBggAEA0QHjIGCAAQDRAeMgYIABANEB4yBggAEA0QHjIGCAAQDRAeMgYIABANEB46CAgAELEDEIMBOgUIABCxAzoCCAA6BAgAEAM6BggAEBYQHjoICAAQFhAKEB5Q-gNYnDRg6zdoAnAAeACAAWeIAe0OkgEEMjIuMZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjn7JjkvtDqAhWRgVwKHbjlAswQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

Strange a lot of the same places appear

It proves my point actually. The word 'creche' in an Irish context is some catch-all term for childcare. Its part of the vernacular brought in my the Brits and again, shows us as a society how much we actually value Early Learning as we think its all just a bit of baby sitting until they are old enough to go a 'proper' school

However, a Montessori is not a creche it is a school.
I refer you to here for more information.

https://www.earlychildhoodireland.ie/work/information-parents/choosing-childcare/childcare-options/

or here.
https://smsi.ie/what-is-montessori/

A Montessori is a school and your continued use of the word 'creche' to describe them is insulting tbh.

markodaly · 16-07-2020 01:49AM

khalessi wrote: »

I find it odd that you can slag off education and be very negative about it and nothing is done. It is one of many things I find odd.

I think you are mistaken, I am taking the people in charge of education to task, and I am also taking those in society who have outdated views on Early Learning also to task.

There is a world of options that work all around the world, yet we cannot seem to implement them here, because of inertia and some in our society have outdated views on what education should be, not what it can become.

Covid-19 has just put a light on many of these outstanding issues that have been bubbling under the surface for decades.

khalessi · 16-07-2020 01:58AM

markodaly wrote: »

Now, the average Primary school teacher in Ireland would not be seen dead in one of these places as they think its beneath them.

Seems like slagging off teachers to me, teacher bashing and ignorant of the facts actually but hey details.

markodaly wrote: »

I think you are mistaken, I am taking the people in charge of education to task, and I am also taking those in society who have outdated views on Early Learning also to task..

Like you did above, yup not negative but incorrect.

Teachers and creches and montesorris if you would like them separate work closely together and have a great deal of respect for each other, to the extent as I pointed out earlier, the primary curriculum looked at what was going on with early learning in creches and montesorris and adapted it to the AIstear programme. This is carried out in Junior and Senior infants making the transition to school easier for children as it is familiar and it also helps them them learn in a different way to formal primary education and allows for integrated active learning. It has proven very succesful and the children love it.

kowloonkev · 16-07-2020 02:35AM

tscul32 wrote: »

Where do the upper primary teachers do these online classes in school if the lower classes have been split and are using all the classrooms? And who is teaching the split classes, they only have one teacher per class.

I'm not trying to just shoot down your idea, I think everyone needs to keep thinking of options but there are just so many things to consider. And no matter what solution is chosen there will need to be a considerable injection of funds.

My kids are going into 3rd class, 1st year and 3rd year. It's the middle one I feel for the most, because if he doesn't get into the actual building he could have a year done without knowing any class mates as he's the only student from his primary going to that school. And with all the newness of secondary for him it will be hard. I just hope there is some concrete plan soon so that everyone -teachers, parents and students - can prepare.

Good questions. I think the Upper Primary teachers could teach from home and if it's not possible each school would have to find a space, be it the Sports Hall, an office or staff room.

Split classes is a tough one. I think they could come up with a schedule whereby the Lower primary students are in until lunchtime - say 12 o clock. with upper primary teachers taking care of first and second classes, and then teach upper primary online in the afternoon, with the help of Lower primary teachers as assistants.

Of course this is a plan without the scenario of just hiring more teachers, which probably won't happen.

KerryConnor · 16-07-2020 05:07AM

I'm surprised to hear expectations here of not going back to school.

I'd be shocked if schools didn't go back at least 50%. Primary 100% and secondary maybe 50%. Why do you all feel any return is doubtful, what has changed? Numbers are creeping up a little but, there still v low.

Lillyfae · 16-07-2020 07:57AM

markodaly wrote: »

And this is the inertia we are talking about, which describes Irish education very much. There is little overall or holistic approach to it where each group defends and holds onto their own patch at the moment. You think this is normal, but let me tell you its not. You only think its normal because its the only thing you know.

It's not your fault per say, its what you know and grew up in but there is a serious cultural and socio-economic issues in Irish education on who are the advocates for children and who are the teachers, interia that has built up for decades, which is now coming home to roost.

Then, some people get sore when I point out the lack of capable leadership in Irish education as a whole. Teachers et al, should really take a step back and look at the entire sector and compare it with many other countries, which appear to be more nimble, agile and willing to take pragmatic decisions to get schools open again.

DoE floundering at the wheel.
Boards of Management going on half-backed solo runs
Unions missing in action unless there is a pay claim
Some decent teachers and parents in the middle scratching their heads, waiting for someone to step up to the plate.

Please don't slate me for agreeing with this but I do.

The whole sector is clearly burned out. To the teachers on the ground, this is not to slate you (all, because we all know that some are fantastic). But the fact that your unions, management and employer are for the most part teachers/ former teachers, means that there are no new ideas, and a constant resistance to change. There's a culture there that needs to be dismantled. The government is full of ex-teachers, and there are few dedicated training centres for teachers leading to group think overall.

A couple of teachers who are the most vocal on here jump on any opinion that opposes theirs and heckle and jeer until the poster stops posting- opposition should be welcomed, not ridiculed, because this is what leads to progression in all walks of life. Granted there have been some ridiculous accusations levelled in the direction of the teachers but if it was me I wouldn't lower myself to the responses I've seen here. To me this attitude from some further highlights the mindset and frankly the emotional intelligence/age of some of the people who are responsible for educating our children (please don't remind me that this is primarily the parents job, we know that you know that this is in the constitution). If this is an example of what happens at department/bom meetings then I would imagine that schools won't be opening in September.

Especially to newly qualified teachers, you are the most capable of the whole lot. Don't follow the shower that went before down the road of complacency and politics and I'm confident that you will revolutionize Irish education in the coming years. The current situation is an opportunity, and I hope that your work will be seen and applauded.

Deeec · 16-07-2020 08:07AM

KerryConnor wrote: »

I'm surprised to hear expectations here of not going back to school.

I'd be shocked if schools didn't go back at least 50%. Primary 100% and secondary maybe 50%. Why do you all feel any return is doubtful, what has changed? Numbers are creeping up a little but, there still v low.

I am hoping schools do reopen in some form. I am friends with a member of the BOM of my children's school. They have told me that nothing has been organised re covid in the school due to waiting for guidelines. They dont want to spend unnecessary until the guidelines are out from DOE and hopefully there will be funding available. I think there should have been a plan in place by the DOE before the summer holidays. Every school will be different in the amount of work they are going to do to make their school covid compliant. At the moment it is mid July and there is still no guidelines - its leaving very little time in my opinion to get everything organised.
Also the dreaded insurance issues hasn't even been raised yet which no doubt could also cause problems.

coffeyt · 16-07-2020 08:55AM

We had an e-mail from our kids school this week (primary) advising they are going with a non uniform policy this year.
Kind of annoying as I had already purchased uniforms for them both and I would always purchase 2 uniforms along with tracksuit which means one wash a week allows a clean uniform everyday, now I'm going to have to purchase additional clothing for school!!!
I'm planning on letting them wear the trousers and polo shirts (new ones daily obviously of both) any way and just ordinary jumpers/fleece.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 16-07-2020 09:01AM

coffeyt wrote: »

We had an e-mail from our kids school this week (primary) advising they are going with a non uniform policy this year.
Kind of annoying as I had already purchased uniforms for them both and I would always purchase 2 uniforms along with tracksuit which means one wash a week allows a clean uniform everyday, now I'm going to have to purchase additional clothing for school!!!
I'm planning on letting them wear the trousers and polo shirts (new ones daily obviously of both) any way and just ordinary jumpers/fleece.

Was gonna get uniform for our daughter soon but heard rumour so gonna hold off now

khalessi · 16-07-2020 09:07AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Please don't slate me for agreeing with this but I do.

The whole sector is clearly burned out. To the teachers on the ground, this is not to slate you (all, because we all know that some are fantastic). But the fact that your unions, management and employer are for the most part teachers/ former teachers, means that there are no new ideas, and a constant resistance to change. There's a culture there that needs to be dismantled. The government is full of ex-teachers, and there are few dedicated training centres for teachers leading to group think overall.

A couple of teachers who are the most vocal on here jump on any opinion that opposes theirs and heckle and jeer until the poster stops posting- opposition should be welcomed, not ridiculed, because this is what leads to progression in all walks of life. Granted there have been some ridiculous accusations levelled in the direction of the teachers but if it was me I wouldn't lower myself to the responses I've seen here. To me this attitude from some further highlights the mindset and frankly the emotional intelligence/age of some of the people who are responsible for educating our children (please don't remind me that this is primarily the parents job, we know that you know that this is in the constitution). If this is an example of what happens at department/bom meetings then I would imagine that schools won't be opening in September.

Especially to newly qualified teachers, you are the most capable of the whole lot. Don't follow the shower that went before down the road of complacency and politics and I'm confident that you will revolutionize Irish education in the coming years. The current situation is an opportunity, and I hope that your work will be seen and applauded.

I would think that there are plenty of new ideas in teaching but a lot of it goes unseen. Teachers quickly moved from class teaching to online teaching without the infrastructure being there and there was a lot of thinking on their feet and adaptation. For some it went brilliantly and for others not so good.

Considering what wasnt there in March, I think a good attempt was made in the circumstances and most teachers in the primary sector are doing courses over the summer to strentgthen their online skills and to continue professional development. I say that knowing I have been criticial of my children's teachers, but I could see they were doing what they could with the infrastructure they had to use and also that they were not computer savvy at all. This has to be further developed nd built upon and the NCCA and a number of other professional bodies are looking into it, for September. There should be a number of models for class teaching, blended learning and online learning put in place for future planning, so we can cope with whatever is thrown at us.

I see innovation everday in the classroom prior to COvid19, my school were very big on IT, Science, English Lit Maths and Drama and music. The teachers went out of their way to create dynamic learning environments but that goes unseen by parents for the most part and also by those who have no stake in schools, unless you are lucky enough to get yourself on tv but tht is rare as the media are anti teacher and have been for a long time. Occasionally though it happens.

Even on this thread despite the criticism there have been some good suggestions put forward by teachers and non teachers. The problem though is if a non teacher puts forward a suggestion and it is explained why it wont work by a teacher, the teacher is jumped on for being negative. It does not happen in other careers where people who dont work in the area feel free to tell others how to do their jobs and get offended if the flaws are pointed out. There have also been situations where suggestions have been welcomed.

I disagree that there is resisitance to change. Change happens all the time in teaching, it is a career you have to be flexible in and up for change. Being resisitant to change is not pointing out where there are flaws in a plan or suggestions to help something happen, like say the reopening of schools, or saying finance is required, it is being honest and practical.

The more vocal teachers here, from what I have seen, are happy to debate opposite opinions when they are put forward as constructive criticism but will not tolerate teacher bashing which has a long history on Boards. ie. and also has been particularly prevelent since March.

Sadly a lot of people are very critical of teachers and some dont even have any connection to education but feel it is ok to slag off teachers and get a dig in for whatever reason. You just have to go back through this thread and it is plainly visible and you dont even have to go back too far. Some people have their own agenda and it doesn't matter what anyone says, they are just here to spread negativitiy even if what they say is not close to being factual.

Sometimes it feels like there is a mentality out there amongst the so called keyboard warriors that everyone is doing it so why can't I. Some remarks are downright vicious slagging off teachers and uneccesary. Others deliberately misconstrue what is said. There are those who are reasonable and put forward good points but sometimes that gets drowned out in the noise of the empty vessels.

Constructive criticism is welcome but teacher bashing and trolling whether direct or disguised in eloquent prose is still teacher bashing or trolling and not welcome and it is hard when you love your job and see it being slated to stand back and let that happen.

Lillyfae · 16-07-2020 09:24AM

khalessi wrote: »

I would think that there are plenty of new ideas in teaching but a lot of it goes unseen. Teachers quickly moved from class teaching to online teaching without the infrastructure being there and there was a lot of thinking on their feet and adaptation. For some it went brilliantly and for others not so good.

Distance learning is a module covered at University level. I studied it years ago and have since had continuous updating of my knowledge and skills on it. If it's not taught to teachers in training then the training is not fit for the purpose of getting children to third level.

khalessi wrote: »

I say that knowing I have been criticial of my children's teachers, but I could see they were doing what they could with the infrastructure they had to use and also that they were not computer savvy at all. This has to be further developed nd built upon and the NCCA and a number of other professional bodies are looking into it, for September. There should be a number of models for class teaching, blended learning and online learning put in place for future planning, so we can cope with whatever is thrown at us.

Not computer savvy? Today?? Not a valid excuse at all.

khalessi wrote: »

I see innovation everday in the classroom prior to COvid19, my school were very big on IT, Science, English Lit Maths and Drama and music. The teachers went out of their way to create dynamic learning environments but that goes unseen by parents for the most part and also by those who have no stake in schools, unless you are lucky enough to get yourself on tv but tht is rare as the media are anti teacher and have been for a long time. Occasionally though it happens.

That's not innovation Khalessi, that's education. I don't even know what the bit in bold is supposed to mean.

khalessi wrote: »

Even on this thread despite the criticism there have been some good suggestions put forward by teachers and non teachers. The problem though is if a non teacher puts forward a suggestion and it is explained why it wont work by a teacher, the teacher is jumped on for being negative. It does not happen in other careers where people who dont work in the area feel free to tell others how to do their jobs and get offended if the flaws are pointed out. There have also been situations where suggestions have been welcomed.

Well 90% of the time it's "The Department" won't do this or "The BoM" won't allow that. The problem is that some teachers on the thread are taking everything like it's their personal problem to solve. All you can do is teach, and take suggestions/ solutions/ issues to your manager. It is not your job to solve the education problem. You are not qualified to do this, nobody expects you to do this.

khalessi wrote: »

I disagree that there is resisitance to change. Change happens all the time in teaching, it is a career you have to be flexible in and up for change. Being resisitant to change is not pointing out where there are flaws in a plan or suggestions to help something happen, like say the reopening of schools, or saying finance is required, it is being honest and practical.

The only thing I would be resistant to here is your spelling

khalessi wrote: »

The more vocal teachers here, from what I have seen, are happy to debate opposite opinions when they are put forward as constructive criticism but will not tolerate teacher bashing which has a long history on Boards. ie. and also has been particularly prevelent since March.
Sadly a lot of people are very critical of teachers and some dont even have any connection to education but feel it is ok to slag off teachers and get a dig in for whatever reason. You just have to go back through this thread and it is plainly visible and you dont even have to go back too far. Some people have their own agenda and it doesn't matter what anyone says, they are just here to spread negativitiy even if what they say is not close to being factual. Sometimes it feels like there is a mentality out there amongst the so called keyboard warriors that everyone is doing it so why can't I. Some remarks are downright vicious slagging off teachers and uneccesary. Others deliberately misconstrue what is said. There are those who are reasonable and put forward good points but sometimes that gets drowned out in the noise of the empty vessels.

Constructive criticism is welcome but teacher bashing and trolling whether direct or disguised in eloquent prose is still teacher bashing or trolling and not welcome and it is hard when you love your job and see it being slated to stand back and let that happen.

The definition of constructive criticism seems very subjective at times, and this comment could come from either side of the argument to be fair. There is definitely right and wrong on both sides.

Deeec · 16-07-2020 09:38AM

coffeyt wrote: »

We had an e-mail from our kids school this week (primary) advising they are going with a non uniform policy this year.
Kind of annoying as I had already purchased uniforms for them both and I would always purchase 2 uniforms along with tracksuit which means one wash a week allows a clean uniform everyday, now I'm going to have to purchase additional clothing for school!!!
I'm planning on letting them wear the trousers and polo shirts (new ones daily obviously of both) any way and just ordinary jumpers/fleece.

I think no uniforms will just make it harder on families. My 9.5 yr old is very fashion conscious - school will become a fashion show. It is much cheaper ( primary school) to buy a few uniforms from dunnes than to buying expensive clothes to be the same as their friends. Its a ridiculous decision. Even the school tracksuit in my kids school is cheap to buy.

wirelessdude01 · 16-07-2020 09:43AM

Deeec wrote: »

I think no uniforms will just make it harder on families. My 9.5 yr old is very fashion conscious - school will become a fashion show. It is much cheaper ( primary school) to buy a few uniforms from dunnes than to buying expensive clothes to be the same as their friends. Its a ridiculous decision. Even the school tracksuit in my kids school is cheap to buy.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. That's what comes to mind when it comes to uniform. Discussion that requires a totally different and new thread though.

Personally I didn't have a uniform throughout my school years but can see arguments from both sides in relation to them.

jlm29 · 16-07-2020 09:47AM

Deeec wrote: »

I think no uniforms will just make it harder on families. My 9.5 yr old is very fashion conscious - school will become a fashion show. It is much cheaper ( primary school) to buy a few uniforms from dunnes than to buying expensive clothes to be the same as their friends. Its a ridiculous decision. Even the school tracksuit in my kids school is cheap to buy.

This is true. Plain navy tracksuit bottoms cost €3.50. Plain uncrested sweatshirts cost around the same for smaller kids, so I can’t see it being difficult to send them in fresh uniform each day. I’d anticipate changing their clothes as soon as they come home if they were in street clothes, so they’d need an awful lot of clothes. I have about a trillion school PE jumpers as it is, I’d have no bother sending having a fresh track suit daily.

Deeec · 16-07-2020 09:50AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. That's what comes to mind when it comes to uniform. Discussion that requires a totally different and new thread though.

Personally I didn't have a uniform throughout my school years but can see arguments from both sides in relation to them.

I suppose my point is surely if kids wear a clean uniform/tracksuit every day its the same as clean ordinary clothes every day. Someone mentioned before kids are going to be wearing the same coat and shoes every day without washing so I don't know what it is achieving by having no uniform.

the corpo · 16-07-2020 09:52AM

Our kids school have never had uniforms, there's never been an issue with kids competing over trendy clothes etc.
I don't think this fear ever comes to fruition in any uniform free schools

Millem · 16-07-2020 09:55AM

jlm29 wrote: »

This is true. Plain navy tracksuit bottoms cost €3.50. Plain uncrested sweatshirts cost around the same for smaller kids, so I can’t see it being difficult to send them in fresh uniform each day. I’d anticipate changing their clothes as soon as they come home if they were in street clothes, so they’d need an awful lot of clothes. I have about a trillion school PE jumpers as it is, I’d have no bother sending having a fresh track suit daily.

I agree with you. Our school has most items crested!! I get him to change him straight away when he comes home. I buy two of everything anyway. 2 days in wears a tracksuit and 3 days uniform. The crested items were expensive (school jumper €30ish and pe jumper €25ish) but then I just bought the shirts and trousers in aldi and they were grand!!! I wouldn’t care buying 5 of every though if it meant he could go back to school!!!

Not sure though if they will be doing pe next year?? My son’s school has a separate pe teacher.
In my own school (secondary) we know what we are due to teach and pe is on the timetable

coffeyt · 16-07-2020 09:56AM

I have to say it doesn't make sense to me either as generic uniforms are so reasonably priced now it is very easy to have clean ones daily.
If you compare the price of ordinary clothes they are much more expensive so it'll cost more for parents.

My youngest is due to start junior infants and was so excited to be wearing the uniform like her big brother, I think that even little changes can make it harder for the kids so don't know how they will feel about this.

I honestly think that wearing a uniform makes it feel more organised for them and I think it'll be harder for them to settle back if everything is changed. It is going to be hard enough after them being off school for so long together with any other changes that come in with regards ppe etc.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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