Yay!!!! Ireland wins appeal at Europe's General Court!!

Snickers Man · 15-07-2020 10:15am #1

We DON'T get to keep the $13bn from Apple we thought we were going to get!!

Huh! How the **** is that a win?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-wins-appeal-in-13bn-apple-tax-case-1.4305044

Hodors Appletart · 15-07-2020 10:18am

we were never going to keep it anyway, if Ireland/Apple had have lost the money would have had to go to other EU Countries too.

The level of ignorance around all of this is staggering.

the "make apple pay for it" brigade will need another cause now

blackwhite · 15-07-2020 10:20am

It's going to be appealed to the ECJ (and always was regardless of who won the initial case).

Eric Cartman · 15-07-2020 10:20am

we were either going to keep 2 billion of it (thats 1 months welfare bill) and have our entire FDI pool looking elsewhere or we could send it back and prove that we're the greatest little island to do business.

this helps us in many more magnitudes than making apple pay ever would have

Alan_P · 15-07-2020 10:21am

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

we were never going to keep it anyway, if Ireland/Apple had have lost the money would have had to go to other EU Countries too.

And Apple would always have appealed it themselves, regardless of what the Irish government did. So no, appealing it didn't cost us the money.

average_runner · 15-07-2020 10:21am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we were either going to keep 2 billion of it (thats 1 months welfare bill) and have our entire FDI pool looking elsewhere or we could send it back and prove that we're the greatest little island to do business.

this helps us in many more magnitudes than making apple pay ever would have

Exactly, we gain more by winning the case as a country

Hodors Appletart · 15-07-2020 10:22am

and even then there is no scenario where the irish govt suddenly finds itself with an extra 13bn quid

if the appeal reverses this decision money will then need to flow to other countries

the magic appletree of money is one of those national myths that a certain type of person clings on to

MrMusician18 · 15-07-2020 10:23am

Absolutely no harm that the commission got put back in its place, their determination was motivated politically. I'm looking forward to reading a summary of the judgement.

wassie · 15-07-2020 10:24am

Snickers Man wrote: »

We DON'T get to keep the $13bn from Apple we thought we were going to get!!

Huh! How the **** is that a win?

Simple. Its a win for Irish sovereignty. Worth more than €13b....

Geuze · 15-07-2020 10:32am

Snickers Man wrote: »

We DON'T get to keep the $13bn from Apple we thought we were going to get!!

Huh! How the **** is that a win?

The activities that generated the massive profits did not occur in Ireland.

So the profits aren't Irish to tax.

Explained here:

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2020/07/09/the-state-aid-judgement-and-stateless-income/

murpho999 · 15-07-2020 10:36am

Good ruling for Ireland and actually protects Irish economy and jobs. How come so many people don't see this?

Shelga · 15-07-2020 10:37am

Geuze wrote: »

The activities that generated the massive profits did not occur in Ireland.

So the profits aren't Irish to tax.

Explained here:

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2020/07/09/the-state-aid-judgement-and-stateless-income/

This is what I don't understand though- from my reading of it, they are not attributable to any country? How can this be possible?

Fully admit that I do not understand how Apple uses Ireland, and still don't, after reading the RTE article- can someone explain it in the most simple of terms?

Eric Cartman · 15-07-2020 10:38am

murpho999 wrote: »

Good ruling for Ireland and actually protects Irish economy and jobs. How come so many people don't see this?

the only people who bang on about us taking it don't care about jobs as they usually haven't ever had one.

Hodors Appletart · 15-07-2020 10:38am

murpho999 wrote: »

Good ruling for Ireland and actually protects Irish economy and jobs. How come so many people don't see this?

because the thirteen billionty millionty euros would be able to pay for dolers hospitals new gardai repair leaky water pipes new iphones for workshy wasters

basically the magic appletree was going to make ireland great again

Dyr · 15-07-2020 10:40am

The ECJ has massively overreached its original purpose. Nation states are governed by Parliaments not a panel of Judges.

gailforecast · 15-07-2020 10:41am

Snickers Man wrote: »

We DON'T get to keep the $13bn from Apple we thought we were going to get!!

Huh! How the **** is that a win?

Probably because FDI now has restored confidence in Ireland again.

Also, it shows the EU that Ireland won’t be bullied over our tax policies. Essentially we’re no longer the new kids on the block, and should be respected as a small, yet validated member. This type of case would never have happened if Germany or France were in Ireland’s position.

CalamariFritti · 15-07-2020 10:43am

Amazing how many ordinary people celebrate corporate tax evasion as a good thing. Just goes to show what a good brainwashing can do.

Laois_Man · 15-07-2020 10:44am

Bambi wrote: »

The ECJ has massively overreached its original purpose. Nation states are governed by Parliaments not a panel of Judges.

Nation states are governed by their respective supreme courts ultimately.

Certainly not by the European Commission

astrofool · 15-07-2020 10:51am

gailforecast wrote: »

Also, it shows the EU that Ireland won’t be bullied over our tax policies. Essentially we’re no longer the new kids on the block, and should be respected as a small, yet validated member. This type of case would never have happened if Germany or France were in Ireland’s position.

Funny how there's no cases ongoing into France's funding of it's semi state entities, reducing their tax hit to less than Ireland, who also now run England's energy infrastructure (that will be fun to untangle post Brexit).

astrofool · 15-07-2020 10:51am

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Amazing how many ordinary people celebrate corporate tax evasion as a good thing. Just goes to show what a good brainwashing can do.

You missed the avoidance vs. evasion class in school didn't you?

Nermal · 15-07-2020 10:55am

Shelga wrote: »

This is what I don't understand though- from my reading of it, they are not attributable to any country? How can this be possible?

We've set up our laws to enable it, which is our right. Our CT rate grabs the headlines, but it's a bit of a smokescreen, the real goldmine is the avoidance schemes our legislation permits.

Of course, we are gaining from this at the expense of other nations. So what? That's their problem.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Amazing how many ordinary people celebrate corporate tax evasion as a good thing.

For us as a nation, it is most certainly a good thing. We're in a fight, CalamariFritti, not of labour vs. capital but of Ireland vs. everyone else. Which side are you on?

murpho999 · 15-07-2020 10:55am

Bambi wrote: »

The ECJ has massively overreached its original purpose. Nation states are governed by Parliaments not a panel of Judges.

In fairness that's not how democracy works.

Judiciary is an important and valid independent body.

ECJ done nothng wrong here.

They've given a ruling and it was appealed.

Remember it was the European Commission who took the case not the ECJ.

gailforecast · 15-07-2020 10:57am

astrofool wrote: »

Funny how there's no cases ongoing into France's funding of it's semi state entities, reducing their tax hit to less than Ireland, who also now run England's energy infrastructure (that will be fun to untangle post Brexit).

Of course not. This was simply a matter of the EU trying to flex their muscles. France has long despised that Ireland attracts the biggest multinational companies in the world, hence the push to “harmonise corporate tax rates”.

murpho999 · 15-07-2020 10:58am

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Amazing how many ordinary people celebrate corporate tax evasion as a good thing. Just goes to show what a good brainwashing can do.

It's not tax evasion though.

Apple and Ireland have been found to have acted correctly.

You do realise that Apple and lots of other companies would not be here otherwise and that would mean the non existence of thousands of direct jobs as well as thousands more in ancillary services plus construction work, VAT, income tax etc.

This is a much better decision for Ireland.

Shelga · 15-07-2020 10:58am

Nermal wrote: »

We've set up our laws to enable it, which is our right. Our CT rate grabs the headlines, but it's a bit of a smokescreen, the real goldmine is the avoidance schemes our legislation permits.

Of course, we are gaining from this at the expense of other nations. So what? That's their problem.

Basically, Ireland wants to be seen as a tax haven who happily facilitate the repatriation of €110 billion in profits from one of the biggest companies on the planet, and help them to pay as little as possible on it.

Great. I feel like such a winner alright. #soproud

facehugger99 · 15-07-2020 11:03am

The goose survives.

No doubt the mouth-breathers will be gutted.

murpho999 · 15-07-2020 11:03am

Shelga wrote: »

Basically, Ireland wants to be seen as a tax haven who happily facilitate the repatriation of €110 billion in profits from one of the biggest companies on the planet, and help them to pay as little as possible on it.

Great. I feel like such a winner alright. #soproud

But they have just been found to have not been guilty of that.

gailforecast · 15-07-2020 11:05am

murpho999 wrote: »

But they have just been found to have not been guilty of that.

I’ve a feeling “wat about de Apple tax” will now replace “wat about de banks”.

El Tarangu · 15-07-2020 11:08am

gailforecast wrote: »

Of course not. This was simply a matter of the EU trying to flex their muscles. France has long despised that Ireland attracts the biggest multinational companies in the world, hence the push to “harmonise corporate tax rates”.

Ireland is a small, sparsely-populated island at the edge of Europe. I always find it difficult to swallow when France (pop. 67m, loads of indigenous industry) and Germany (pop. 83 million, huuuge indigenous automotive & other heavy industries) talk about harmonising the tax rate in order to create a level playing field among the member states.

It's a great day for the smaller nations of the EU.

Pherekydes · 15-07-2020 11:08am

Whatever happened to the idea that everyone should pay their fair share of taxes?

Edgware · 15-07-2020 11:09am

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

we were never going to keep it anyway, if Ireland/Apple had have lost the money would have had to go to other EU Countries too.

The level of ignorance around all of this is staggering.

the "make apple pay for it" brigade will need another cause now

But but but Paul Murphy free for everyone change change its not fair

Yay!!!! Ireland wins appeal at Europe's General Court!!

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