Scrabble to ban the word "culchie" in America.

Quantum Erasure · 13-07-2020 11:45am

Howareya, that's another one...,

Vita nova · 13-07-2020 11:45am

cdeb wrote: »

The bits in quotes are me paraphrasing you. (Otherwise I'd have quoted you , like above) I think they're valid paraphrases. Certainly I don't see you showing why they're wrong.

No you shouldn't put a paraphrase in quotes and if you do you should at least make it clear that you're paraphrasing. Here's a good point from Wikipedia on the subject:

Quotation marks are not used for indirect speech. This is because indirect speech can be a paraphrase; it is not a direct quote, and in the course of any composition, it is important to document when one is using a quotation versus when one is just giving content, which may be paraphrased, and which could be open to interpretation.

For example, if Hal says: "All systems are functional", then, in indirect speech:

Incorrect: Hal said that “everything was going extremely well”.
Correct: Hal said that everything was going extremely well.

Also you're contradicting yourself or else lying because you have used quotation marks for what I actually said (that's a matter of record) rather than using the Boards' quote function.
.

Vita nova · 13-07-2020 12:08pm

cdeb wrote: »

...
What I said was that Vita Nova said the word came from one of four possible origins. It can't have come from all of them. Therefore his point is it must have come from one of the four - but he doesn't know which.

The point being that if you don't even know what the etymology is, how can you use it to back up your argument?

Again that is your interpretation of what I said. What I actually said was, "I'm aware of four possible etymologies" - there could be more that I don't know of, I certainly didn't limit it to 4 as you say. Also I did not say I didn't know which, as it could be none of them or it could have multiple origins. Again, here's what I actually said:

Vita nova wrote: »

Disagree, the meaning is in the word and that can be aquired meaning through usage or inherent/inherited meaning based on etymology. I'm aware of four possible etymologies for the word and only one of them is somewhat neutral; I'm not going to outline them here but they're easy to find on the web.

cdeb · 13-07-2020 12:36pm

Grand. I mean, I was expecting you to point out that I'd taken you completely out of context, but quibbling over "4" or "at least 4" is a really minor point. What still remains is that your only argument is that the etymology - which you don't even know - defines it, and you allow no space there for the current meaning.

That doesn't make sense.

siltirocker is, it seems, correct to note that the term actually dates from the 50s - my bad there - but the point still holds that you can't expect viewpoints from a different time to not be overwritten by more current times. As has happened with lots of other words.

Ush1 · 13-07-2020 2:57pm

siltirocker wrote: »

Honestly man, I worked in a sports programme which involved kids from the entire country converging on Dublin. And all the Dublin kids roared at the weaker lads from outside Dublin was 'culchie' this and 'culchie' that. And it was not in jest.

I reprimanded a few kids, and asked them why they were calling the lads from outside Dublin 'culchies' as it was upsetting the kids. (The ones anyway, that didn't yell back 'jackeen' or 'west brits' anyway). And responses were things like "they can barely speak English", "they live in ditchs" "they are married to their sisters", "they can't read", etc.

This happens every year, and has since 2002.

The words origin is an insult. It is often used as insult. Just because the majority of people use it in jest, doesn't make it less so.

If you think other wise, I wonder would you ever consider calling someone a culchie a compliment? And how do you think a derogatory word for a person outside the Dublin region isn't? It defies logic.

Did you correct them that they won't marry their sisters for a few years yet? Silly jackeen kids.:rolleyes:

MOH · 13-07-2020 3:15pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Amounts to the same thing, really

Not really. It clearly highlights the hypocrisy and pointlessness of the whole exercise.

This change will only affect the miniscule fraction of Scrabble games which are held under North American tournament rules.

The words have already been censored from the official scrabble dictionary for a quarter of a century, and clearly haven't resulted in a massive uptick in everyone's quality of life or we wouldn't be in the current mess.

It's yet another pointless token gesture that does less than zero good

13-07-2020 3:36pm

siltirocker wrote: »

Honestly man, I worked in a sports programme which involved kids from the entire country converging on Dublin. And all the Dublin kids roared at the weaker lads from outside Dublin was 'culchie' this and 'culchie' that. And it was not in jest.

I'd say it was the 'this' and 'that' elements of his vocabulary that were offensive?

"You culchie!" is a term of endearment, often said in jest.

"U tick culchie bollix" or "some fcukin' culchie gard arrested me" are examples of expressions where the word assumes the more obnoxious quality; these are slurs.

EmmetSpiceland · 13-07-2020 5:38pm

Yo, check this out. Culchies drive a car like this.
Yeah, but Jackeens, see, they drive a car like this.

Vita nova · 13-07-2020 6:14pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Yo, check this out. Culchies drive a car like this.
Yeah, but Jackeens, see, they drive a car like this.

And how do those of us that are neither "culchies" nor "jackeens", i.e. the vast majority of the Irish population drive?

EmmetSpiceland · 13-07-2020 6:19pm

Vita nova wrote: »

And how do those of us that are neither "culchies" nor "jackeens", i.e. the vast majority of the Irish population drive?

Nordies? Probably boiling with rage, gripping the wheel tightly but never letting anyone see.

Vita nova · 13-07-2020 6:22pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Nordies? Probably boiling with rage, gripping the wheel tightly but never letting anyone see.

Not just Northerners, they're obviously not the "vast majority of the Irish population" are they?

EmmetSpiceland · 13-07-2020 6:27pm

Vita nova wrote: »

Not just Northerners, they're obviously not the "vast majority of the Irish population" are they?

No, I thought that was “odd” enough. I don’t really see how you’re still arguing that there aren’t three “types” of people in this country, Culchies, Dubs and Nordies.

To be honest, if you’d take them, I’d consider anyone outside the M50 and north of, say, Howth a Culchie.

Vita nova · 13-07-2020 6:43pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

No, I thought that was “odd” enough. I don’t really see how you’re still arguing that there aren’t three “types” of people in this country, Culchies, Dubs and Nordies.

To be honest, if you’d take them, I’d consider anyone outside the M50 and north of, say, Howth a Culchie.

There are numerous "types" of Irish people like most countries, urban, rural, Northern, Eastern, Western, Southern folk, the new Irish, Travellers etc. and the vast majority are neither "culchies" nor "jackeens".

EmmetSpiceland · 13-07-2020 6:45pm

Vita nova wrote: »

There are numerous "types" of Irish people like most countries, urban, rural, Northern, Eastern, Western, Southern folk, the new Irish, Travellers etc. and the vast majority are neither "culchies" nor "jackeens".

Outside Dublin, south of the Border, Culchies.
Inside Dublin, south of the Border, Jackeens.
Outside Dublin, north of the Border, Nordies.

That’s how it works. Can’t make it any simpler for you with drawing a “diagram”. Hope it helps either way.

Quantum Erasure · 13-07-2020 6:47pm

Ah, there's townies as well to be fair...

EmmetSpiceland · 13-07-2020 6:51pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Ah, there's townies as well to be fair...

A “subset” of Culchies, Q.

This should help anyone still unsure of whether they are a Culchie, or not. Close enough, anyway.

Vita nova · 13-07-2020 7:00pm

Funny, I haven't seen that map from the OSI or in any Government publication, maybe that's because it only exists in the minds of narrow-minded little individuals who can't recognize the diversity of the country in which they live.

Bass Reeves · 13-07-2020 7:03pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

A “subset” of Culchies, Q.

This should help anyone still unsure of whether they are a Culchie, or not. Close enough, anyway.

From the tip of the Shannon to midpoint in the North should be a section, west of it culchies/sheep shaggers and east of it culchies only

cdeb · 13-07-2020 7:21pm

Yeah, not sure about that one Emmet. Where's the bogballers and the stickfighters?

(We are allowed to refer to bogballers and stickfighters, yeah?)

cdeb · 13-07-2020 7:22pm

Vita nova wrote: »

Funny, I haven't seen that map from the OSI or in any Government publication, maybe that's because it only exists in the minds of narrow-minded little individuals who can't recognize the diversity of the country in which they live.

Have you no sense of humour whatsoever at all?

EmmetSpiceland · 13-07-2020 7:26pm

cdeb wrote: »

Yeah, not sure about that one Emmet. Where's the bogballers and the stickfighters?

(We are allowed to refer to bogballers and stickfighters, yeah?)

Well, technically, they’d be a subset of Culchie, Jackeen and Nordie. The great levellers.

Vita nova · 13-07-2020 7:33pm

cdeb wrote: »

Have you no sense of humour whatsoever at all?

Rather presumptuous to think that because I don't share your sense of humour that I don't have one. Actually, I like to think I have a good sense of humour but I just don't find this to be particularly funny.

EmmetSpiceland · 13-07-2020 7:35pm

Vita nova wrote: »

Rather presumptuous to think that because I don't share your sense of humour that I don't have one. Actually, I like to think I have a good sense of humour but I just don't find this to be particularly funny.

Are you a Nordie? You’re sounding a lot like one here.

cdeb · 13-07-2020 7:46pm

I think this whole "culchie" thing is cutting a little close to the bone for some reason...

Kylta · 13-07-2020 9:29pm

I've already asked this so ill try again.
Has any person who deem themslves culchies, have you been personally called a culchie to your face in recent years? Or for that matter any name that you think is derogatory to you living outside dublin?

gourcuff · 20-07-2020 10:32am

As an Irishman who is not from Dublin these are the terms i would be most familiar with. Obviously Irish people dont go around calling each other culchies, this seems like a very dublin centric thing. Maybe some sort of narrow minded echo chamber amongst the hood kids who have never left Dublin?.

Would never call Donegal people northies either, thats strictly a term to ref the 6 counties.

Hard to square the elite from Bearna driving their new Range Rovers being called culchies (in the pejorative sense - i.e. an unsophisticated country person) but then again the people who use that term typically wouldn't be well traveled or educated so its probably just a blanket cover all term for them.

riclad · 20-07-2020 10:47pm

It's not an insult, mostly Dublin people use it to refer to people in rural areas, maybe the USA equivalent is redneck.
I doubt if any non Irish people use this word.
I think the word is nordie, there's no such word as northie. In reference to a previous post in this thread. If I want to insult people I can think of other words much stronger to use, eg scumbag

Vita nova · 21-07-2020 10:15am

riclad wrote: »

It's not an insult, mostly Dublin people use it to refer to people in rural areas, maybe the USA equivalent is redneck.
I doubt if any non Irish people use this word.
I think the word is nordie, there's no such word as northie. In reference to a previous post in this thread. If I want to insult people I can think of other words much stronger to use, eg scumbag

Whether one considers it to be an insult is subjective, it's a synonym for an unsophisticated ruralite and some consider it insulting, others don't. To some people it's a different and far worse type of insult than scumbag because they see it as an insult based solely on where someone comes from and their background and it's simultaneously insulting their friends and family from the same background.

In general more weight is given to how someone perceives a word than how it's intended, for example, in the workplace if you told HR that you didn't use a particular word as an insult but your counterpart said they considered it to be one then HR would most likely tell you to desist rather than telling your counterpart to grow a thicker skin.

MOH · 21-07-2020 10:26am

Vita nova wrote: »

Whether one considers it to be an insult is subjective, it's a synonym for an unsophisticated ruralite and some consider it insulting, others don't. To some people it's a different and far worse type of insult than scumbag because they see it as an insult based solely on where someone comes from and their background and it's simultaneously insulting their friends and family from the same background.

In general more weight is given to how someone perceives a word than how it's intended, for example, in the workplace if you told HR that you didn't use a particular word as an insult but your counterpart said they considered it to be one then HR would most likely tell you to desist rather than telling your counterpart to grow a thicker skin.

I choose to find the word "counterpart" to be highly offensive. I'll be reporting your disgustingly abusive post

cdeb · 21-07-2020 10:28am

Vita nova wrote: »

Whether one considers it to be an insult is subjective, it's a synonym for an unsophisticated ruralite and some consider it insulting, others don't. To some people it's a different and far worse type of insult than scumbag because they see it as an insult based solely on where someone comes from and their background and it's simultaneously insulting their friends and family from the same background.

In general more weight is given to how someone perceives a word than how it's intended, for example, in the workplace if you told HR that you didn't use a particular word as an insult but your counterpart said they considered it to be one then HR would most likely tell you to desist rather than telling your counterpart to grow a thicker skin.

Show me one person who considers "culchie" a worse insult than "scumbag"?

You keep blathering on about its etymology and then say that "In general more weight is given to how someone perceives a word than how it's intended" - yet no-one has said they're offended by the word. The only people giving out about it are people taking offence on behalf of others who may be offended because of its meaning. That's inherently contradictory.

Scrabble to ban the word "culchie" in America.

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