How do we break the welfare cycle?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

The army and navy don't want them either... so you'd have to force them to take them on! (which I guess could be done)

The same people on these threads who bash dole scroungers... if they had their own business, would they be running down to the local dole office to recruit any of these people for their establishment?? Not a chance!

As a country, we either need to create jobs specifically for long term unemployed... or we need to force employers to take on a certain % of long term unemployed people. (similar to how we force developers to build a certain % of social housing in every new build estate)

Like I said above, most long term unemployed people are unemployable and undesirable... and this is a factor that is very often overlooked by people!

The army would take them in no problem. I don't buy the excuse that they are unemployable, maybe a tiny percentage are but the rest are just lazy and have got used to easy money from social welfare, the army would knock that out of most of them, even the worst of them. Even a good employer could, the dole life isn't good for anyone's mental health.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

You didn't answer my question!

If you were running a business, would you go down your local welfare office and recruit someone who was a long term dole recipient? (This is your livelihood remember - putting food on your table!)

This is the real litmus test of whether I'm correct about employability... it's easy enough to say why don't these lazy feckers go out and just get a job. But really who wants a long term unemployed person? Particularly if they have any sort of criminal record or previous dismissal on their CV etc...

I am in business. I would yes, I would give them a shot if I thought they might work out. criminal record, maybe not but they wouldnt get in the army with a criminal record either. it would depend what the crime/s were and how long ago they were.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

You've just admitted that you consider the majority of long term unemployed as being "just lazy"...

So laziness is one of the boxes you're looking to tick when hiring people for your business? Sounds like you have very high standards!

What other boxes would they need to tick in order to be deemed employable in your business?

lol I would knock the laziness out of them fairly quickly. and if I couldn't I would show them the door.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Perhaps you're being honest here... I've no way of knowing.

But I still don't think your attitude would be the prevailing one out there in the workplace. The stigma of being long term unemployed, is a rather large obstacle to overcome for many of these people.

Any hint of laziness or lack of work ethic in your past, is usually sniffed out quite quickly by most employers!

ah no I am being honest, I would treat them the same as someone who always had a job, I believe everyone has potential. maybe because I was unemployed myself at times so I know that its not that hard to go from unemployed to working 5-7 days a week. you get used to it very quickly in my opinion.

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

Yes and have done.
The same with people just out of prison too.
Never judge a book my its cover.
Give people a proper wage and they
Will work.
Pay them peanuts (like seetec and the CE schemes ) and they won't bother.
A living wage,not a basic wage.

I've noticed that the wage subsidy has given a similar reaction from previously conscientious workers, the reason given is that the state is paying the wages so it doesn't matter if the do nothing. Shows what most people's view of public service is

Geuze wrote: »

The people I know who have chosen JSA as a long-term lifestyle choice are not at all lazy.

JSA allowed them to get 100,000 in student fees and grants, paid for by the taxpayer.

They operate a nixer bringing in a five-figure sum.

Do you mean a six figure sum? I mean a five-figure sum could be e200 a week or it could be e1850 a week. People who claim jobseekers for the whole year will tend to be on just about a five-figure income already.

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Do you mean a six figure sum? I mean a five-figure sum could be e200 a week or it could be e1850 a week. People who claim jobseekers for the whole year will tend to be on just about a five-figure income already.

Sorry, I mean 10,000 - 40,000 annually.

Geuze wrote: »

Sorry, I mean 10,000 - 40,000 annually.

Yeah that does seem to be a piss-take, I mean I get people being allowed some earnings with on Jobseekers but if you're hitting into the higher rate of tax then something is clearly amiss. Have you considered reporting them? I mean you might need some evidence but presumably it's going through a bank account somewhere.

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Yeah that does seem to be a piss-take, I mean I get people being allowed some earnings with on Jobseekers but if you're hitting into the higher rate of tax then something is clearly amiss. Have you considered reporting them? I mean you might need some evidence but presumably it's going through a bank account somewhere.

they are hardly that stupid.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1 child benefit converted from a payment to a tax credit
2 free contraception
3 social housing in high demand areas only for those who actively work full time in those areas
4 No social housing queue jumping for having a kid, first come first served.
5 build more prison spaces, like thousands more and end suspended sentences for anyone with previous convictions
6 half JSA and increase JSB
7 drug testing claimants routinely
8 no disability payments for alcoholics, drug addicts or unproven back and neck injuries.
9 remove problem tenants from social housing under a 2 strike system, get removed from your second property and its on the streets for you.
10 add personal injury payouts to means tested payments.

I’d agree with every point apart from 8. Addiction is a complex ‘disease’ of the brain and body. That’s not my opinion , that’s medical fact. I can empathize with the point you make certainly as relates to drugs... there is or should be enough knowledge, education etc that drugs are bad, just bad.

Alcohol is different. Becoming an alcoholic from a fine, normal regular drinker takes a while... it’s a progressive illness and can be influenced by things like stress, ill health .... I can say from knowing an alcoholic that initially they are just legal tipplers, my friend met friends ‘us’ every Wednesday, four or five pints, then us Wednesday, workmates Friday, out by himself Saturday and drinking in the gaff every other night... it’s an addiction.

We had a boom in the years leading up to 2007/08......and then another mini-boom up until Covid.

In both of these we had near full employment.

If you were able-bodied and still hadn't a job through both of these, then you are nothing but a work shy layabout.

gailforecast wrote: »

How do we stop generational welfare recipients?

Do CE schemes or other work programs work? Or is there another approach we can take which will be effective?

Just give people jobs. No question asked. min wage should be 40k a year.

Create a surplus of jobs.

Also remove stigma about the dole. WHo cares.

Japan has a better ideology.

Everyone must work and work must be provided for everyone.

Jobs are easy to come by ..whatever your ability.

Work must be provided for people.

gailforecast wrote: »

How do we stop generational welfare recipients?

Do CE schemes or other work programs work? Or is there another approach we can take which will be effective?

First off I want to point out that this thread started with the OP talking about "generational welfare recipients" which would suggest the Sons and Daughters of the initial recipient becoming depend on social protection.

I dont believe there is any significant research to evident that as a significant problem.

On a second point long term employment was about 1.3% of the Labour Force before COVID-19 (down from about 10% at the height of the last recession) and is below the EU average.

As long term unemployment includes anyone that has been unemployed for 1 year or more that would indicate:-

1. Long term unemployed people are leaving the live register.

2. Most People that become unemployed, are unemployed for less than one year.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Exactly, but we have an elitist attitude towards jobs in this country... I genuinely think many people enjoy looking down their nose at those who are unemployed. It's almost like a sport or hobby for many folks!

The amount of people in this country, who define themselves by what they do for a living... all their self-worth is about their job. It's quite sad and pathetic really... So it is no surprise that people who can't find a job, are seen as the lowest scum in society.

Remove the barriers to employment and remove the elitism inherent in the our society. Stop treating unemployed people like pariahs and just give them a job! (A real job, not some scheme designed to humiliate them!)

I agree. 100%