How do we break the welfare cycle?

Viscount Aggro

gailforecast wrote: »

I spend less than 200 a week now, it’s not that difficult. Aldi super 6, plus pasta/rice base. For a single person, 80 euro would by a weeks worth of groceries.

A healthy, balanced diet should generally cost only €57 per week, per adult.

If you have children, child allowance covers additional costs.

Listen mate, you are shopping in the wrong store.
My weekly food budget is 20 EUR, and I pull in the ton.

neonsofa

gilberto_eire wrote: »

What people don't realise is that very few people are milking the jobseekers schemes.

It's the Lone Parents, Carers and Disability Schemes that are the issue.

Its laughable that someone can get Lone Parents and then Carers to look after their own child(and the benefits that come with those schemes).
I have no issue with someone getting one of them but how can it be justified that you're giving someone a payment for being a lone parent and then a payment for looking after their own child. Mind boggling.

If you want the system changed, make it an election issue as the main parties haven't a hope of doing it willingly.

They would only be awarded carers allowance for a child (under 16) if the child qualifies for domiciliary care allowance, which will only be awarded when the child needs ongoing care and attention, substantially over and above the care and attention usually required by a child of the same age. So, I really wouldnt be begrudging a single parent receiving additional payment for a child that has additional needs. Its exactly what it is for.

They also only get a half rate of carers afaik due to the fact they are claiming opfp, but im open to correction on that..

OMM 0000

So, I live in Asia (divide my time between Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea) and the social welfare systems here are pretty much non existent.

As a result, people have to work, otherwise they'll be homeless.

I think a compromise we could do in Ireland is work for the dole.

The jobs can be anything - picking up litter, whatever.

Just make it annoying enough that people will go out and get a real job instead.

Viscount Aggro

Have you been in one of the DSP or Intreo centres?
The staff are actually telling people how to get more money or benefits.

Rezident

Diceicle wrote: »

Centralise payments into one system backed up by some sort of National ID card. Cuts out fraud.
At the same time put a cap on the amout of total welfare payments an individual can claim - something near minimum wage - preferably below it.
Put a time limit on the number of years you are allocated use of council housing for. If you have a family - 10 or 15 years should be suffice to get your affairs in order. If you haven't been able to geta job that will sustain your living without government assistance in the past 10-15 years, and once the younger family members leave the nest, you must downsize to an appropriately sized apartment - thus freeing up a 3 bed property for the next needy young family. No more forevah homes.

Good ideas!


Plus penalties for breaking the law such as reduction in income and free houses etc.

Rezident

STOP heavily incentivising it. Economics changes people's behaviour via incentives. When there was less money going in to it and in countries where that is still the case, there are less availing of it. Now that it is so heavily incentivised in Ireland, more than ever avail of it. Obviously.

Pinoy adventure

gailforecast wrote: »

You’re free to leave a CE scheme whenever you want.

They already get help to the tune of 200 a week plus HAP/housing.

If anything, tax cuts should be given to the middle class who pay for everything yet are entitled to both with said surplus. 200 quid with little to no costs for accommodation is more than enough.

Not all get Hap/housing.
You would want too have a good reason too leave a CE scheme.
200 is not enough for anybody too live on in 2020.

gailforecast

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

Not all get Hap/housing.
You would want too have a good reason too leave a CE scheme.
200 is not enough for anybody too live on in 2020.

You can leave a CE scheme if you get a job, or for any other reason.

Yes it is. It’s more than enough. For a single adult on a healthy diet, €57 should cover the weekly grocery bill. 200 is more than enough.

Limpy

Every year your on it, it comes down x %.

The problem for us normal working people is if we lose a job we sign on and claim our credits for a year(hopefully not that long).

These bums are claiming the same benefits since they turn 18. They might get caught to do a 'turning on a PC' level 0.5 course in the FAS, then it's back on Jobseekers again for Life.

I know many on it, i wouldn't give them a job. Lazy fext.

If it was up to me id make them do community work as the minimum. The women have an excuse with the 5 kids, no hope there.

RandomViewer

gailforecast wrote: »

You can leave a CE scheme if you get a job, or for any other reason.

Yes it is. It’s more than enough. For a single adult on a healthy diet, €57 should cover the weekly grocery bill. 200 is more than enough.

Rent, heating, phone , transport , clothing, why do I think you would happily kill anyone poorer than you?

RandomViewer

OMM 0000 wrote: »

So, I live in Asia (divide my time between Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea) and the social welfare systems here are pretty much non existent.

As a result, people have to work, otherwise they'll be homeless.

I think a compromise we could do in Ireland is work for the dole.

The jobs can be anything - picking up litter, whatever.

Just make it annoying enough that people will go out and get a real job instead.

If it's work you have to pay minimum wage , paid holidays and make PRSI contributions, litter picking will involve manual handling, health and safety training and if near creche or schoolls Garda vetting, so JA is cheaper.

OMM 0000

RandomViewer wrote: »

If it's work you have to pay minimum wage , paid holidays and make PRSI contributions, litter picking will involve manual handling, health and safety training and if near creche or schoolls Garda vetting, so JA is cheaper.

It doesn't have to be picking up litter.

It is any ****e to get them to have to work for their dole.

They do it in Australia and it has drastically reduced the number of people on the dole and working for the dole is too annoying.

oceanman

OMM 0000 wrote: »

So, I live in Asia (divide my time between Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea) and the social welfare systems here are pretty much non existent.

As a result, people have to work, otherwise they'll be homeless.

I think a compromise we could do in Ireland is work for the dole.

The jobs can be anything - picking up litter, whatever.

Just make it annoying enough that people will go out and get a real job instead.

there is not a hope that any government here would back something like that..

gailforecast

RandomViewer wrote: »

Rent, heating, phone , transport , clothing, why do I think you would happily kill anyone poorer than you?

Monthly income = 800 - groceries at 57 per week = 572

Three unlimited data at 60 for the month = 512

Leap card unlimited 512 - 114 = 398

Average heating bill in Ireland = 67

398 - 67 = 331

Anybody long term unemployed is either on HAP or social housing.

331 quid leftover after everything is said and done is more than enough to start a small savings account.

Wanderer78

gailforecast wrote:

Monthly income = 800 - groceries at 57 per week = 572

Renting?

gailforecast

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Renting?

Read to the end of the post please.

ax530

Many of the measurements Gov & economic policy makers look to improve are related to spending. So they will continue to give money away to those who will spend it.
If working hard to just about making ends meet will be more careful about spending.
As with everything in our country the regulation add lot cost so it expensive to hire this makes it harder to create more low playing jobs more spending when keep people in the welfare system.

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

with my own disorder, autism, some research is showing up to 80% of autistic people end up in long term unemployment situations. when you look into other complex disorders mentioned, you ll start to see them all popping up on the dole and amongst the prison populations. most of the cases on the dole would be undiagnosed. i was only diagnosed in my 30's, was told this is becoming common, as we re starting to understand these disorders more so, and the more milder cases such as myself are only being picked up now. baring in mind, public assessments virtually dont exist for these disorders, and private assessments can sometimes could cost a couple of grand or so, i suspect most long term unemployed dont have that. its also important to realise the hse has poor understanding of such disorders, in particular my own, and private treatment is where its at, again, probably not available to most on the dole. the hse's default is medication, a&e visit, then medication, a&e, physic ward, medication, morgue, more or less in that order

I have a milder case too. Luckily I can still work and earn more than enough to fund my various binges and obsessions!


Autism is a spectrum, and you have people who are on the aspie high functioning side, people who are non verbal, and lots in between. You can't really group the former with the latter.


I work in data science and a lot of the folks I work with would be classic cases of undiagnosed high functioning aspies.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive self medicated with alcohol, its very common with our disorder, along with all the usual, drugs, nicotine, food, sugar..........................

Yes, I have done so too in the past.

KiKi III

gailforecast wrote: »

Read to the end of the post please.

People on the HAP scheme contribute to their rent, as do people in social housing.

gailforecast

KiKi III wrote: »

People on the HAP scheme contribute to their rent, as do people in social housing.

Yes, €30. Where workers pay thousands. Big stuff alright.

On HAP, you can contribute your own cash if you want, but it’s not required.

Limpy

KiKi III wrote: »

People on the HAP scheme contribute to their rent, as do people in social housing.

We the tax payers pay for the social houses to be build, we also pay the majority of the HAP rent.

All people on welfare have to do is put there name on a list and wait. No contributions needed.

cgcsb

The only people who want the HAP system are landlords who cannot compete in the private market, they wouldn't get 2 grand a month for a ****hole apartment in the arse end of Ballymun if it were not for HAP. HAP is a landlord subsidy. The same amount of money could build enough social and affordable housing to clear all housing lists.

Pinoy adventure

gailforecast wrote: »

Monthly income = 800 - groceries at 57 per week = 572

Three unlimited data at 60 for the month = 512

Leap card unlimited 512 - 114 = 398

Average heating bill in Ireland = 67

398 - 67 = 331

Anybody long term unemployed is either on HAP or social housing.

331 quid leftover after everything is said and done is more than enough to start a small savings account.

Throw in house insurance/health insurance/car insurance/few pints with the lads in the pub/curry or chipper on the way home from the said pub/a few bob too the other half too get her hair/nails done each week and hey presto your left it very little from 203 a week.
Oh and don't forget the sky package in the house for the football.
At that rate you would owe yourself money 🙄
It should be €350 a week for everybody as it's unfair on the unemployed only getting 203 when everybody else gets €350.

Eric Cartman

cgcsb wrote: »

The only people who want the HAP system are landlords who cannot compete in the private market, they wouldn't get 2 grand a month for a ****hole apartment in the arse end of Ballymun if it were not for HAP. HAP is a landlord subsidy. The same amount of money could build enough social and affordable housing to clear all housing lists.

thats it. Anyone with a half decent property won't go near HAP , always ends in tears for the property owner

gailforecast

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

Throw in house insurance/health insurance/car insurance/few pints with the lads in the pub/curry or chipper on the way home from the said pub/a few bob too the other half too get her hair/nails done each week and hey presto your left it very little from 203 a week.
Oh and don't forget the sky package in the house for the football.
At that rate you would owe yourself money 🙄
It should be €350 a week for everybody as it's unfair on the unemployed only getting 203 when everybody else gets €350.

I’m pretty sure you’re trolling here. Well played.

Pinoy adventure

gailforecast wrote: »

I’m pretty sure you’re trolling here. Well played.

No you would be wrong too think that.
All real costs of life mentioned above.

howamidifferent

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

No you would be wrong too think that.
All real costs of life mentioned above.

You really think people on the dole long term are paying house insurance/private medical insurance when they have HAP and medical cards?

gailforecast

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

No you would be wrong too think that.
All real costs of life mentioned above.

So if everyone on the dole should get 350, this would reflect a change of close to 75% or 4-5 billion per year. Where do you suggest we get this additional cash from on a year by year basis?

Geuze

KiKi III wrote: »

Before Covid we were close to full employment.

Of the small proportion of the population that was unemployed many of them would have been legitimately between jobs. The number of people on the dole for life is very small, and definitely not worthy of the level of outrage we see week in week out on Boards.

Although the UNR was low before COVID, yes, but joblessness and inactivity was high.

Rising employment was not really reducing the number of jobless households.

Geuze

Wanderer78 wrote: »

according to mcwilliams, our central banks can actual create money, as this is permitted under eu rules and regulations

The ECB has been engaged in Quantitative Easing since 2014.

QE is a particular type of outright open-market operation.

By, now the ECB has created huge amount of extra money, which it used to buy financial assets.