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Property Market 2020

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    #10502
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭Villa05


    GreeBo wrote:
    I also think you misunderstood what I mean by "bad house"!

    Maybe you also, you can buy a bad house anytime. I just think it's less likely when there are less buyers and more choice within your budget.

    In a heated market the seller dictates the terms and vice versa

    Logic and common sense really


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    #10503
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    When house prices were 30-50% lower in 2011 lads taught they would go lower, when prices started to rise after that they were convinced that there would be a double dip. It was obivious from late 2012 that this would not happen but people who missed the boat refused to buy as they taught rents would remain low. Now they have paid 4-8 years rent and are still looking for that bargain

    In 2011 getting a mortgage was not easy there were only 13,000.

    It doesn't show how many applicants were turned down but i assume the numbers were high. As lending had all but dryed up.

    Cash investors, Vulture funds and the local authoritys bought up a lot of the apartments and starter houses in prime locations I think it was around half of all resedential property sold between 2009-2013 according to UCD report.

    When prices did start to move and rents increase the CB brought in the new rules which, althought the banks agreed some form of cap should be introduced they felt the 3.5 was overkill given the direction the market was going.

    MABS had concerns too and they were right.

    Debt advisory agency Mabs expressed concern that “ the rising cost of rent and the consequential limits on what renters can save towards a deposit, may mean that renters with a solid income who could afford a mortgage will not be able to save the full deposit of 20per cent in a reasonable period of time”

    I dont think it was a refusal to buy.

    I think by the time a lot of people were in a position to buy due to the above activty and rules introduced it started to go beyond peoples means.


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    #10504
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Shelga wrote: »
    Just back from another viewing of a 2 bed apartment, advertised at €275k. The first thing the estate agent said to me was "the owner is actually looking for at least €290k"- why waste my time then?

    Advertise it at the price you want for it. Stop playing these stupid games.

    Update: Yesterday I withdrew my bid on a house that would have required far too much work, after I brought an expert out to look at it with me. Just out of interest, I rang up the estate agent who is selling this 2 bedroom apartment, and 3 weeks later, they've had precisely zero offers. Couldn't help but think, maybe the owner shouldn't have been so arrogant.

    When I went to the viewing, it was only up on Daft a few days and the agent said they'd had 37 emails of interest. Just goes to show, that is definitely not translating into fast offers anymore. People like me think paying nearly €300k for a medium apartment is too big a gamble, and are either waiting for price drops, or to see what happens with the economy.


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    #10505
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,170 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The Belly wrote: »
    In 2011 getting a mortgage was not easy there were only 13,000.

    It doesn't show how many applicants were turned down but i assume the numbers were high. As lending had all but dryed up.

    Cash investors, Vulture funds and the local authoritys bought up a lot of the apartments and starter houses in prime locations I think it was around half of all resedential property sold between 2009-2013 according to UCD report.

    When prices did start to move and rents increase the CB brought in the new rules which, althought the banks agreed some form of cap should be introduced they felt the 3.5 was overkill given the direction the market was going.

    MABS had concerns too and they were right.

    Debt advisory agency Mabs expressed concern that “ the rising cost of rent and the consequential limits on what renters can save towards a deposit, may mean that renters with a solid income who could afford a mortgage will not be able to save the full deposit of 20per cent in a reasonable period of time”

    I dont think it was a refusal to buy.

    I think by the time a lot of people were in a position to buy due to the above activty and rules introduced it started to go beyond peoples means.

    So 12+ months plus ago when prices were 10%+lower they could not buy buy going into what some here are posting as a hard recession they expect that they will be unaffected and will buy there forever home.

    A young couples mid twenties near us were intending to travel this and next year. However they cannot do that now and think it will be two years+ before they get a chance again.

    They joint earning are about 60k/year. They looked at different options and asked there parents and friends. One set of parents were wait because of possible recession. However the other parents advice was to buy now. Both have steady income and can access 220k mortgage, they have 20k in savings and parents are giving balance to allow them to buy a 250k house just outside Limerick city.

    The parent who's advicewas to buy(and other set of parents came around to this as well). They can access a mortgage now, one works in the medical are and there job is secure, Second is a mechanic . If there is a downturn and he list his job they might be unable to access a loan for 3-5 years. In the meantime renting will cost 10-12k/ year if they want s place to themselves. The repayments will be less than 1k/ month, if they decide to travel in 2-3years time rental value of house will be 1.5k/ month

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #10506
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    ......

    ....... a 250k house just outside Limerick city.
    ...... if they decide to travel in 2-3years time rental value of house will be 1.5k/ month

    Fair play for knowing what rent will cost in 2 to 3 years time in these times :)


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    #10507
    lastusername
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭lastusername


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    So 12+ months plus ago when prices were 10%+lower they could not buy buy going into what some here are posting as a hard recession they expect that they will be unaffected and will buy there forever home.

    A young couples mid twenties near us were intending to travel this and next year. However they cannot do that now and think it will be two years+ before they get a chance again.

    They joint earning are about 60k/year. They looked at different options and asked there parents and friends. One set of parents were wait because of possible recession. However the other parents advice was to buy now. Both have steady income and can access 220k mortgage, they have 20k in savings and parents are giving balance to allow them to buy a 250k house just outside Limerick city.

    The parent who's advicewas to buy(and other set of parents came around to this as well). They can access a mortgage now, one works in the medical are and there job is secure, Second is a mechanic . If there is a downturn and he list his job they might be unable to access a loan for 3-5 years. In the meantime renting will cost 10-12k/ year if they want s place to themselves. The repayments will be less than 1k/ month, if they decide to travel in 2-3years time rental value of house will be 1.5k/ month

    Seems like a good plan to me. Head off travelling in 2-3 years, vaccine and treatments hopefully all in place and everything back to normal!


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    #10508
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    A young couples mid twenties near us were intending to travel this and next year. However they cannot do that now and think it will be two years+ before they get a chance again.

    They joint earning are about 60k/year. They looked at different options and asked there parents and friends. One set of parents were wait because of possible recession. However the other parents advice was to buy now. Both have steady income and can access 220k mortgage, they have 20k in savings and parents are giving balance to allow them to buy a 250k house just outside Limerick city.

    The parent who's advicewas to buy(and other set of parents came around to this as well). They can access a mortgage now, one works in the medical are and there job is secure, Second is a mechanic . If there is a downturn and he list his job they might be unable to access a loan for 3-5 years. In the meantime renting will cost 10-12k/ year if they want s place to themselves. The repayments will be less than 1k/ month, if they decide to travel in 2-3years time rental value of house will be 1.5k/ month

    Price of house is very affordable and a long term plan not an investment.

    Their take-home pay is 4,238 if its 30k each mortgage repayment probably around the 900 mark well below 30% of their net income.

    Both would have to lose their jobs for a extended period of time to come under any pressure for the mortgage repayments.

    As both would be entitled to job seekers benefit and mortgage interest relief.

    Even then it would just mean a cut back in discretionary spending.


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    #10509
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,170 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Augeo wrote: »
    Fair play for knowing what rent will cost in 2 to 3 years time in these times :)

    That was there parents assessment lads are predicting a 20%-drop. Even if they rent at 2/3 of that they cover mortgage repayments so that would allow them to travel if they do decide.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #10510
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Dundalk discussion split into separate thread.


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    #10511
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Most properties I'm looking at are going 8-10pc over asking and lots of competition.


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    #10512
    neutral guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 402 ✭✭neutral guy


    MattS1 wrote: »
    Most properties I'm looking at are going 8-10pc over asking and lots of competition.
    This could be only temporary inertia effect.Who said this trend gonna continue forever ? The PAs in 2007 said property will never losing price,what happened after ?


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    #10513
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    neutral guy wrote: »
    This could be only temporary inertia effect.Who said this trend gonna continue forever ? The PAs in 2007 said property will never losing price,what happened after ?

    What do you mean by interia effect?


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    #10514
    neutral guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 402 ✭✭neutral guy


    MattS1 wrote: »
    What do you mean by interia effect?
    Inertia effect is the mortgages approved before Covid.That what exactly drive property market at the moment.


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    #10515
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    neutral guy wrote: »
    Inertia effect is the mortgages approved before Covid.That what exactly drive property market at the moment.

    But don't banks require you to show proof that you haven't been affected financially?


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    #10516
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,170 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    neutral guy wrote: »
    This could be only temporary inertia effect.Who said this trend gonna continue forever ? The PAs in 2007 said property will never losing price,what happened after ?

    People keep on harping back to 2007, we were building 40k houses mainly a year, builders were completing housing schemes before putting any house up for sale. Your average self employed neutral guy had 1-2 properties rented and had 110% mortgages on them, as well as maybe a pad being build off plans in Spain, banks were lending at 4-5 times incomes. A lot of people had no equity in there houses

    Banks were sending out letters offering you personal loans pre approved.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #10517
    headtheball14
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭headtheball14


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    That was there parents assessment lads are predicting a 20%-drop. Even if they rent at 2/3 of that they cover mortgage repayments so that would allow them to travel if they do decide.

    Great as long as they
    Stay together
    Interest rates don't rise.
    They don't get pregnant
    They can rent the house
    They dont want to emigrate
    One settles and doesn't want to go traveling anynore

    For a couple who were giving everything up to see the world I can see a house outside limericks city being a great idea.
    Look it can work if people are very settled but when young couple on low incomes get talked into by their parents .....


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    #10518
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Time for buyers with approval and or cash to start playing hardball. Try push for real value and make estate agents earn their money. Anyone renting can try renegotiating downwards also or resist increases.


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    #10519
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    smurgen wrote: »
    Time for buyers with approval and or cash to start playing hardball. Try push for real value and make estate agents earn their money. Anyone renting can try renegotiating downwards also or resist increases.

    I think that will be the order of the day fairly soon.

    Gov have been advised that eviction ban and rent increase ban extension may give rise to court challanges by landlords.


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    #10520
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    smurgen wrote: »
    Time for buyers with approval and or cash to start playing hardball. Try push for real value and make estate agents earn their money. Anyone renting can try renegotiating downwards also or resist increases.

    Someone in the currently buying selling thread did as you suggested:
    Canyon86 wrote: »
    Hi all

    I am looking for peoples experiences

    I was interested in a property recently
    I had two bids rejected by vendor, waiting a week each time
    To hear the bad news back from them,

    I was informed that I was the only bid in at the moment
    I checked daft last night and the property is now sale agreed

    Should I have been given a call by the EA to inform of a new bid ? Perhaps not..
    3 days between my second failed bid and sale agreed
    I was preparing to go higher again but looks like I moved too slow

    Cheers

    Hardball turned into hard-luck. Maybe it will work next time, or the one after that.


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    #10521
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Someone in the currently buying selling thread did as you suggested:



    Hardball turned into hard-luck. Maybe it will work next time, or the one after that.

    Meh. Worth multiple attempts in my opinion.


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    #10522
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Someone in the currently buying selling thread did as you suggested:



    Hardball turned into hard-luck. Maybe it will work next time, or the one after that.

    In fairness, he offered only 15k under the asking, - doesn't sound like hardball to me, in those circumstances I would expect a call from the EA just to be kept up to date.

    Indeed if I was a seller, I would expect the EA to contact every person who had made an offer now matter how far off the asking to give them a chance to reconsider before I went sale agreed.


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    #10523
    1sttimebuyer20
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭1sttimebuyer20


    schmittel wrote: »
    In fairness, he offered only 15k under the asking, - doesn't sound like hardball to me, in those circumstances I would expect a call from the EA just to be kept up to date.

    Indeed if I was a seller, I would expect the EA to contact every person who had made an offer now matter how far off the asking to give them a chance to reconsider before I went sale agreed.

    I had a few viewings with DNG Doyle, never bid on any of the properties I viewed with them but always got a call when they felt they were at their highest bid to see if anyone that even viewed wanted to bid


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    #10524
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    smurgen wrote: »
    Meh. Worth multiple attempts in my opinion.

    You must be ChancerDublinBoi from Adverts who kept low balling me on the monster power supply and who didn't get it, because IKnowaBargain from the Czech republic lived up to his name.


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    #10525
    hi!
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭hi!


    Deciding to put buying a house off until the market becomes more certain. Keeping an eye on daft etc for the time being but are relaxing our search. Have AIP, both steady jobs 80k+ combined, deposit saved, full HTB, both still living at home. Don’t see the point in buying an overpriced house (new build 3 bed semis starting at 380k in our area & anything reasonably priced needs a lot of work).
    I’d imagine there are others in the same position as us.


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    #10526
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,675 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    smurgen wrote: »
    Meh. Worth multiple attempts in my opinion.

    Only if you have no fixed requirements on what you want to buy . We looked for over a year and found one house we liked after viewing dozens.


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    #10527
    bdmc5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭bdmc5


    hi! wrote: »
    Deciding to put buying a house off until the market becomes more certain. Keeping an eye on daft etc for the time being but are relaxing our search. Have AIP, both steady jobs 80k+ combined, deposit saved, full HTB, both still living at home. Don’t see the point in buying an overpriced house (new build 3 bed semis starting at 380k in our area & anything reasonably priced needs a lot of work).
    I’d imagine there are others in the same position as us.

    I’m sure there plenty of people holding off for now on buying but on the flip side people want to get on with their lives and have a place to call their own so I can understand why a lot people are pressing on too.

    Where I live in cork new 3 beds are the same price as your area and they are sold in last few weeks . Brother is in the market and it’s very competitive and no Covid discounts are being entertained by sellers so they are finding very stressful and frustrating.


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    #10528
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭enricoh


    My brother put his house up for sale just before covid- a one off outside a commuter town around 550k. Took it down saying this year would be a write off and will try again next year for probably 50-100k less
    Estate agent told him to put it back up and has serious punters for it, I saw a few viewing it this week.
    I wouldn't have believed it only I saw them myself. He'll probably get 600k for it now! Paddy doesn't do rational thinking!


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    #10529
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,170 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    smurgen wrote: »
    Time for buyers with approval and or cash to start playing hardball. Try push for real value and make estate agents earn their money. Anyone renting can try renegotiating downwards also or resist increases.

    You can only do that if there is less buyers than sellers. At present there is more buyers than sellers. The fundamentals would suggest that this will be the same for a while yet..........lads that missed out in 2008-14 might miss out again as dip may be minor and short even of it dose happens.

    There might be a property crush in 2034 and they might get lucky then

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #10530
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    bdmc5 wrote: »
    I’m sure there plenty of people holding off for now on buying but on the flip side people want to get on with their lives and have a place to call their own so I can understand why a lot people are pressing on too.

    Where I live in cork new 3 beds are the same price as your area and they are sold in last few weeks . Brother is in the market and it’s very competitive and no Covid discounts are being entertained by sellers so they are finding very stressful and frustrating.

    Tell em to have patience and start low balling . The sooner sellers get used to this as the new normal the better it will be for everyone. The power dynamic has changed and sellers are to be price takers now. Estate agents would want to up the professionalism too. Too many Del Boy type characters who'll be out of the job unless they begin to start showing some transparency.


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    #10531
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,170 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    enricoh wrote: »
    My brother put his house up for sale just before covid- a one off outside a commuter town around 550k. Took it down saying this year would be a write off and will try again next year for probably 50-100k less
    Estate agent told him to put it back up and has serious punters for it, I saw a few viewing it this week.
    I wouldn't have believed it only I saw them myself. He'll probably get 600k for it now! Paddy doesn't do rational thinking!

    This idea that people that are willing to get on with it are irrational is not looking at the facts. Your brother proved one point people who do not need to sell when the market is down will not sell. 2008-14 was a crack like no other because there was too much distressed property, it was not just property there was distressed car and machinery auctions as well. There was a credit bubble as well as a property bubble

    Slava Ukrainii



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