Jack Charlton has died

Strumms · 11-07-2020 11:26PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Always thought Brady might have brought a bit of class and experience to the midfield in 1990, even at his age but he was never going to be a Charlton player. Especially with Chippy's experience of Italian football.

Really a shame that Roy Keane wasn't that bit further down the road in his career in 1990.

Yes, think Brady was 34 by then and carrying an injury or two. Pity.

andekwarhola · 11-07-2020 11:26PM

Bobblehats wrote: »

Cherry tree has a wowburger now.

Even has a beer garden now. Notions :pac:

Justin Credible Darts · 11-07-2020 11:28PM

That miserable alco that did nothing in the game, the whiny Dunphy use to try make a name for himself slating Jack.

The muppet Dunphy thought Ireland should have been playing like Brazil with the players they had.

andekwarhola · 11-07-2020 11:32PM

Strumms wrote: »

Yes, think Brady was 34 by then and carrying an injury or two. Pity.

He was OK to play. He'd retired from international football but decided to make himself available for 1990 and Jack (understandably to be fair) decided to go with players that played the qualifiers.

He wouldn't have really suited Charlton's game either and I just think Jack never fancied him which is a shame because he was an elegant player with huge european experience that would have brought that touch of experience and class even at 34 which is hardly over the hill for a baller like Brady

Say Your Number · 11-07-2020 11:34PM

Reminds me of Giles saying to Charlton 'Your brother wouldn't get in your team' and he replied 'He would if he did what I told him to do'

andekwarhola · 11-07-2020 11:37PM

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

That miserable alco that did nothing in the game, the whiny Dunphy use to try make a name for himself slating Jack.

The muppet Dunphy thought Ireland should have been playing like Brazil with the players they had.

Dunphy is a knob but his only crime in 1990 was asking why a team stuffed with top level players were sent out to play like a Sunday League team. He was slaughtered for that by the Roddy Doyle Ole Ole English Football Lover brigade in Ireland at the time but he was right even if he was OTT in the way he expressed it.

Allinall · 11-07-2020 11:40PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

That shows what you know, wasting my time.

In all fairness, and with due respect, you haven’t a fcuking clue.

R.I.P. Jack

Justin Credible Darts · 11-07-2020 11:41PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Dunphy is a knob but his only crime in 1990 was asking why a team stuffed with top level players were sent out to play like a Sunday League team. He was slaughtered for that by the Roddy Doyle Ole Ole English Football Lover brigade in Ireland at the time but he was right even if he was OTT in the way he expressed it.

would they be the same players who could not qualify for major comps before Jack took over ?

Dunphy never did anything of note in his life and ran his mouth like he was something big in the game.

The guy is just a meme of a wrinkled up , washed up alco throwing a biro around

Strumms · 11-07-2020 11:43PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

He was OK to play. He'd retired from international football but decided to make himself available for 1990 and Jack (understandably to be fair) decided to go with players that played the qualifiers.

He wouldn't have really suited Charlton's game either and I just think Jack never fancied him which is a shame because he was an elegant player with huge european experience that would have brought that touch of experience and class even at 34 which is hardly over the hill for a baller like Brady

He might have been ‘ok’ but he retired from all football in 1990, at 34. That’s either a lack of desire, physical ability or both to keep playing.

Arsenal
Juve
Sampadoria
Inter
Ascoli
West ham

A player in decline to be fair.

andekwarhola · 11-07-2020 11:44PM

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

would they be the same players who could not qualify for major comps before Jack took over ?

Some longevity in Jack's squad to have been around for every failed qualification campaign in the history of Irish football.

Edgware · 11-07-2020 11:45PM

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

the 1990 world cup will always be remembered by me.
I remember going outside the pub for a smoke ( long before the smoking ban) due to the crowds in the pub, and the streets like a ghost town.

People who despised each other were hugging each other inside, and Jack was seen as the greatest thing ever.
For those not around then or missed it, it is almost impossible to describe those days when the games were on.

The entire country was on the piss

RIP Jack

Ah yes. The best supporters in the world FFS

EmmetSpiceland · 11-07-2020 11:46PM

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

would they be the same players who could not qualify for major comps before Jack took over ?

Dunphy never did anything of note in his life and ran his mouth like he was something big in the game.

The guy is just a meme of a wrinkled up , washed up alco throwing a biro around

There were some “star” players but never a team with as many at one time. Plus those teams were, repeatedly, very unlucky and were, possibly, cheated.

You’re sounding a little “wound up” here at the moment. That’s understandable, it’s been an emotional day but, by all means, have a drink to Big Jack but don’t start, needlessly, “attacking” other pundits.

It’s not what Jack would have wanted.

andekwarhola · 11-07-2020 11:48PM

Strumms wrote: »

He might have been ‘ok’ but he retired from all football in 1990, at 34. .

I'd honestly think that had as much to do with the style of football we were playing from 86 which rendered players like Brady a bit obsolete. He wasn't eligible to play in 1988 because of suspension IIRC. Honestly think a player of that experience could have addressed the gap in the team you rightly identified but sure, it's hypothesis now unfortunately.

Justin Credible Darts · 11-07-2020 11:51PM

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

There were some “star” players but never a team with as many at one time. Plus those teams were, repeatedly, very unlucky and were, possibly, cheated.

You’re sounding a little “wound up” here at the moment. That’s understandable, it’s been an emotional day but, by all means, have a drink to Big Jack but don’t start, needlessly, “attacking” other pundits.

It’s not what Jack would have wanted.

Why would you wrongly assume I would be wound up ?

Dunphy was a nobody who thought the success and confidence of the players under Jack, meant they should have being playing like Brazil or something. A retarded notion.

In my opinion Ireland under Jack Over Achieved, and people like dunphy were using the Irish team, and Jack to promote their own agenda.

Now if it were someone like Giles being critical, I would take more notice, as he actually did things in the game.

SEPT 23 1989 · 11-07-2020 11:57PM

I was taken out of school of a Wednesday and placed on the lower east stand terrace with my father and believed we could beat anyone who came over to play against us on that pitch

That's what Jack did

batman75 · 11-07-2020 11:59PM

Our style of play under Big Jack wasn't for the connoisseurs of football. It was however effective. As a young 'un in 88 I was just delighted to see us mix it with the big boys at an International tournament. I think what we did in Germany helped propel the national interest in 1990 and 1994. The whole country came to a stop. It's hard to explain the effect this had on the country to those not old enough to remember.
His time as manager gave us footballing respectability, and a wonderful sense of national pride. As an adult I look back now with a sense of regret that we didn't play a better brand of football. We had the players. Indeed the panel of players for 88/90 was the strongest in our history at that point and since. You need only look at the clubs they played for to reinforce the point.
There is no doubt about it he brought a hitherto unseen, in my lifetime, sense of feel good to the country. We may never see those times again which is why the memories are so sweet and treasured. He was a mighty age and lived a remarkable life. It would be lovely if the country came to a stop for a minute on the day of his funeral just to acknowledge and show the world what he meant to our country.

Church on Tuesday · 12-07-2020 12:00AM

Allinall wrote: »

In all fairness, and with due respect, you haven’t a fcuking clue.

R.I.P. Jack

Bore off.

JoeA3 · 12-07-2020 12:01AM

RIP Jack. Really sad news, another legend leaves us

As a child of the late ‘80’s and early ‘90’s, Jack Charlton is a huge part of my memories. That summer of 1990 was magical. I was only a 12 year old kid but I remember it fondly. Rose tinted glasses of course but in my memory it was a long hot summer with all my mates in green

Magical times. I remember my Dad coming home from work early and us all crowding around the crappy telly to watch the infamous penalty shootout. And my Dad - who had never watched a game before - smash a footstool in pure joy when O’Leary scored! It was probably a rare moment of elation/happiness after a decade of grim.

I think the Irish people easily related to him. His straight, no nonsense, no bull manner, frank but good humoured.

There’s no doubt that he inherited a very good group of players. Luck was certainly on his side when Scotland’s Gary McKay scored against Bulgaria. But like other great managers such as Ferguson at Manchester United, Jack just had “something” different. He was a force of personality, a huge force of charisma, he had an ability to command instant respect, to put all the parts together and make the whole great.

What we wouldn’t give to qualify for 3 major tournaments in a row today!

Mysterypunter · 12-07-2020 12:03AM

andekwarhola wrote: »

He was OK to play. He'd retired from international football but decided to make himself available for 1990 and Jack (understandably to be fair) decided to go with players that played the qualifiers.

He wouldn't have really suited Charlton's game either and I just think Jack never fancied him which is a shame because he was an elegant player with huge european experience that would have brought that touch of experience and class even at 34 which is hardly over the hill for a baller like Brady

Brady as we all know, was a top class player, but to put it into context, when Ireland played the euro 88 qualifiers, he was a central part of the team, even at 32 years old, in the group, Ireland played Belgium, who had been beaten in the world Cup semi final in Mexico 86, by Argentina, more to the point, by Maradona, Scotland, who they beat 1-0 at hampden through a rare goal from Mark Lawrenson, Bulgaria, who were always handy, and reached the USA 94 semi finals, and Luxembourg who were rubbish. Ireland played a 2-2 draw in Brussels in the first game, think Frank Stapleton won a late penalty, was flattened by Pfaff, the Belgian keeper, sure Brady scored the penalty. But at the end Ireland chinned Bulgaria 2-0 in Landowne, a game which the Bulgarians entered needing to avoid defeat to qualify, Ireland completed their fixtures with that win, but Bulgaria had a game left, at home to Scotland, and only needed a draw to qualify, it was 0-0 for 87 minutes, and the Scots nicked it with a goal from Gary Mckay of Hearts, this put Ireland through, as one of only 8 qualifiers, as only the group winners got through. The sad part of this tale for Liam Brady, was that he was sent off late in the Bulgaria win, and would have missed the first 2 games in Euro 88 due to suspension. Because of this he was not included in the squad, and never really got a luck in after that, apologies for the long post, but this is my memory of the events, and it was 32 years ago, but I think most of this is true, also I mentioned Luxembourg were rubbish, but they actually scored first in Dublin, and Ireland scraped past them, 2-1.

andekwarhola · 12-07-2020 12:05AM

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

In my opinion Ireland under Jack Over Achieved

Honestly I think we seriously under achieved when you look at the available irish players 86-94 (especially in 1990 which was one of the poorest world cups ever. I honestly think to this day we had a chance of doing a Greece 2004 at Italia 90) but I don't want to drag the thread down.

I have my serious issues with the guy football wise but I respect anybody that manages our country in any code and especially an English world cup winner that had the nuts to break the mould to take on the job here at that moment in time.

Osamabumdipper · 12-07-2020 12:08AM

Rip big Jack. Inspired a generation of people to love football in Ireland

Mysterypunter · 12-07-2020 12:09AM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Honestly I think we seriously under achieved when you look at the available irish players 86-94 (especially in 1990 which was one of the poorest world cups ever. I honestly think to this day we had a chance of doing a Greece 2004 at Italia 90) but I don't want to drag the thread down.

I have my serious issues with the guy football wise but I respect anybody that manages our country in any code and especially an English world cup winner that had the nuts to break the mould to take on the job here at that moment in time.

Couldn't have done much more in that tournament to be honest, to lose 1-0 to the hosts in an away fixture was no disgrace, but I agree with you, could have happened, Maradona was waiting in the semis, they beat Italy on penalties in Naples, then a handy one in the final against the Germans.

EmmetSpiceland · 12-07-2020 12:10AM

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Why would you wrongly assume I would be wound up ?

Come on

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

That miserable alco that did nothing in the game, the whiny Dunphy use to try make a name for himself slating Jack.

The muppet Dunphy thought Ireland should have been playing like Brazil with the players they had.

Judging from the post above you are, clearly, “wound up”.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Dunphy was a nobody who thought the success and confidence of the players under Jack, meant they should have being playing like Brazil or something. A retarded notion.

In my opinion Ireland under Jack Over Achieved, and people like dunphy were using the Irish team, and Jack to promote their own agenda.

Now if it were someone like Giles being critical, I would take more notice, as he actually did things in the game.

Look, maybe you’ve just had a few too many and are taking your grief at Big Jack’s passing out on Dunphy? It’s not a good “look”, to be honest.

When you look at the players we had back then it does not “marry” well with the style of football we played. Some of those games are just dreadful to watch.

You could argue that with a different manager getting that team to play “beautiful” football that they’d have gone out in the group stages or, even, failed to qualify but that’s just hypothetical. They got further than anyone else by playing a style of football that bypassed a midfield combination who’s like we will, probably, never see again.

I, personally, feel that you should apologise for your use of the term “retarded”. It’s an ugly word and has no place on this site. I will accept the editing out of that part of your post in lieu of, said, apology.

JoeA3 · 12-07-2020 12:12AM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Honestly I think we seriously under achieved when you look at the available irish players 86-94 (especially in 1990 which was one of the poorest world cups ever. I honestly think to this day we had a chance of doing a Greece 2004 at Italia 90) but I don't want to drag the thread down.

I have my serious issues with the guy football wise but I respect anybody that manages our country in any code and especially an English world cup winner that had the nuts to break the mould to take on the job here at that moment in time.

A World Cup is a cup tournament (obviously). You need a big dose of good fortune and circumstances to go your way to get the big prize. One bad result and you’re out.

We went into that tournament as the underdogs to put it mildly. We went out to the hosts. In Rome. In boiling temperatures. To a goal scored by a guy who was on a hot streak like no other. It’s hard to legislate for that and many’s the great manager who’s failed at the last hurdles in tournament football.

SEPT 23 1989 · 12-07-2020 12:14AM

Are people forgetting who we were up against in those tournaments?

Woke Hogan · 12-07-2020 12:16AM

RIP to Charlton.

But, to be fair to him, he and some English/Dublin-born members of his squad didn't always have the respect for playing for Ireland. Respect I suspect they would have had had they played for "them across the water," as some of them would undoubtedly have preferred.

Pie eating contests, Guinness taps in the hotel at USA 94, turning up to matches drunk or hungover. The rot of mediocrity had set in and it didn't take until 2002 for the Corkonian Roy Keane to speak up and set the wheels of progress in motion.

12-07-2020 12:25AM

A heartfelt tribute:

Deleted User wrote: »

I must say im genuinely saddened to hear of Jack's passing. While not the most puristic of managers in terms of football style, Jack created a great team spirit that transcended beyond the team, to the stands and far beyond.

I think the appeal of Jack is that he was an ordinary man with no airs or graces who liked the simple things in life such as fishing. He was like someone we felt we all knew even if we never met him in our lives. He was also a straight shooter, and from the many stories you hear of him he had a great way with people. He started a journey and brought every irish person along with him whether they were fans of football or not. When Ireland was a bleak place, Jack and the team lifted everyones spirit.

Its also notable how none of the players who played under him, addresed him as boss or gaffer. It was just simply, Jack.

RIP Jack

A not so heartfelt tribute:

Woke Hogan wrote: »

RIP to Charlton.

But, to be fair to him, he and some English/Dublin-born members of his squad didn't always have the respect for playing for Ireland. Respect I suspect they would have had had they played for "them across the water," as some of them would undoubtedly have preferred.

Pie eating contests, Guinness taps in the hotel at USA 94, turning up to matches drunk or hungover. The rot of mediocrity had set in and it didn't take until 2002 for the Corkonian Roy Keane to speak up and set the wheels of progress in motion.

Mysterypunter · 12-07-2020 12:28AM

Woke Hogan wrote: »

RIP to Charlton.

But, to be fair to him, he and some English/Dublin-born members of his squad didn't always have the respect for playing for Ireland. Respect I suspect they would have had had they played for "them across the water," as some of them would undoubtedly have preferred.

Pie eating contests, Guinness taps in the hotel at USA 94, turning up to matches drunk or hungover. The rot of mediocrity had set in and it didn't take until 2002 for the Corkonian Roy Keane to speak up and set the wheels of progress in motion.

It didn't take long for Roy Keane to walk his dog while the rest of the squad were in a penalty shootout against Spain, that man is a cartoon character and an idiot, wildly overrated bag of wind, he does some whinging for a so called hard man. This is about Jack Charlton, and his way of dealing with the players was man management, Big Paul McGrath was a genius who liked his soup, so Jack turned a blind eye, the squad were close knit and performed to the best of their ability, so I would have no issue with his management style, but I would have huge issues with the FAI suits, that's the one thing I agreed with Roy Keane on.

Woke Hogan · 12-07-2020 12:30AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A heartfelt tribute:

A not so heartfelt tribute:

This is a discussion forum, not a book of remembrance.

I don’t think it should come to many as a surprise that the Ireland team of the 80s and 90s used to take the piss a bit when it came to match preparation, even compared with their contemporaries.

adox · 12-07-2020 12:36AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Are people forgetting who we were up against in those tournaments?

Euro 88. Not like the Euros now(granted you didn’t have the break up of the Eastern block). Only 8 teams qualified. That was a monumental achievement in Irish sport and we more than held our own, were unlucky to get knocked out by the brilliant Dutch.

Yes he played long ball football and kept the team as high up the pitch as possible(a very modern thing now the high press).

Yes we had some quality players, one or two bordering on world class but we had quality top flight players before he arrived also and they did little or nothing on the international scene.

It may not have been pretty and it can be argued that the players were there to play prettier football than they did but his remit was to get results.

He did that in spades. It can’t be overestimated the achievements to qualify and compete in those tournaments. The barriers broken down once and for all.

It was a fantastic time to be alive to see the national team achieve and a fantastic time for the country. Yes you can look down your football purest noses at the “ole ole ole” crowd as you call them all you want. It’s pure begrudgery. The country was in the doldrums. Life was grim. It was a beacon of light for everyone and lifted a nation and brought joy and happiness and pride.

Jacks tactics were a means to an end. The players bought into it and ran themselves into the ground for him and put themselves in the history books.

He will be fondly remembered forever by the vast majority of people, football people, causal sports fans and the “ole ole ole” crowd.
Not just for the good times and feel good factor and pride he brought to the country. For the actual achievements in footballing terms that he accomplished. History making achievements.

Thanks Jack for both.

R.I.P.

Jack Charlton has died

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