Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

owlbethere · 10-07-2020 11:39AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm not making excuses, I'm stating a simple fact to you which you willing ignored. Into the hands is reflex, into the elbow needs to be learned. As I said though if you wish to see behaviour that outrages you, you will not be disappointed.

You are making excuses for people who are rude and manerless and so quick and easy to ignore the guidelines about hygiene.

snotboogie · 10-07-2020 11:42AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The Kazakhs are categorically denying the Chinese reports about unknown pneumonia. They state cases without a confirmed covid-19 lab test are always classified as such under WHO guidelines.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/asia/kazakhstan-pneumonia-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html?utm_content=2020-07-10T07%3A00%3A04&utm_source=fbCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

That doesn't look like a categorical denial to me at all:

In a statement on Friday, the Kazakhstan health ministry acknowledged the presence of "viral pneumonias of unspecified etiology," but denied that the outbreak was new or unknown.
It added the "unspecified" pneumonia classification followed World Health Organization guidelines "for the registration of pneumonia when the coronavirus infection is diagnosed clinically or epidemiologically but is not confirmed by laboratory testing."

So it's not unknown but they don't know what it is. 700 have died in the last month but they have followed WHO protocol....

Always interesting to see how the official Chinese response would follow up that of the embassy in Kazakhstan:

When asked about the outbreak on Friday, a spokesman for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs told reporters, "We would also like to get more information. China hopes to work together with Kazakhstan to fight the epidemic and to safeguard the two countries public health security."

Wouldn't be getting scared yet but unlike the plague in Mongolia, this is one to watch.

ACitizenErased · 10-07-2020 11:50AM

snotboogie wrote: »

That doesn't look like a categorical denial to me at all:

So it's not unknown but they don't know what it is. 700 have died in the last month but they have followed WHO protocol....

Always interesting to see how the official Chinese response would follow up that of the embassy in Kazakhstan:

Wouldn't be getting scared yet but unlike the plague in Mongolia, this is one to watch.

Yeaahhh I’m gonna disagree and say I’m not gonna trust the Chinese

caveat emptor · 10-07-2020 11:57AM

YellowBucket wrote: »

So basically society be damned! Old people be damned! Pay for my pint with billions spent on combating a second wave?

Great! Well done there.

Sarcasm Can be lost on some people. I’m in the doom monger category / realist.

JP Liz V1 · 10-07-2020 11:59AM

AdamD wrote: »

This is not normal

Why because I don't want to catch it

I just think this year going anywhere abroad is like Russian roulette, you can't know for sure it is totally eradicated anywhere, we are hearing of more cases and surges not just in the US and UK

caveat emptor · 10-07-2020 12:01PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The Kazakhs are categorically denying the Chinese reports about unknown pneumonia. They state cases without a confirmed covid-19 lab test are always classified as such under WHO guidelines.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/asia/kazakhstan-pneumonia-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html?utm_content=2020-07-10T07%3A00%3A04&utm_source=fbCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

Ah hear that’s all we need. Not reading it so as to stay in my bubble.

JP Liz V1 · 10-07-2020 12:03PM

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I had thought as much. I wonder why the Chinese government put that statement out though, or the embassy to be specific. From what I've read Kazakhstan has received a lot of Chinese investment as part of the New Silk Road.

Any Borat comment

Assetbacked · 10-07-2020 12:05PM

Haha, wow, just when an article attempts to argue how there is not a fear-mongering narrative about covid in Ireland, it implements a lie in the article to explain why we should not be scared. I quote from the article;

"Of the 140 cases that occurred last week, the median age was 34 years, compared to a median of 83 years for all cases that have occurred in the pandemic.".

The median age of cases (as they have been bleating on about while not publishing median age of deaths) is 48 years, 83 is the median age of deaths!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-nphet-member-denies-trying-to-scare-people-with-warnings-1.4301273

I won't bump the post as I don't have it to hand but it is important to remember that this is generally not harmful to the vast majority of people.

An Ciarraioch · 10-07-2020 12:09PM

Somewhat "interesting" approach to the daily numbers by a Spanish TV channel - divide the stats into immigrants and the total figure:

https://twitter.com/Candeliano/status/1281511294542249984

JDD · 10-07-2020 12:10PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Haha, wow, just when an article attempts to argue how there is not a fear-mongering narrative about covid in Ireland, it implements a lie in the article to explain why we should not be scared. I quote from the article;

"Of the 140 cases that occurred last week, the median age was 34 years, compared to a median of 83 years for all cases that have occurred in the pandemic.".

The median age of cases (as they have been bleating on about while not publishing median age of deaths) is 48 years, 83 is the median age of deaths!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-nphet-member-denies-trying-to-scare-people-with-warnings-1.4301273

I won't bump the post as I don't have it to hand but it is important to remember that this is generally not harmful to the vast majority of people.

I spotted that too. Of course the median age of infection has come down. Over 70's have been cocooning and are generally still in lockdown mode. Older people are more cautious. Young people are continuing to do exactly what they have been doing since March - and that amending their behaviour but not as much as everyone else.

Of course the percentage of the much smaller number of infections is in the younger age group. It's hardly a shock, nor really a matter of concern. The virus hasn't suddenly mutated so as to become more infectious to younger people. Younger people haven't significantly changed their behaviour since the restrictions lifted.

I really hate this scare-mongering stuff. Newspapers and television reporters really need to cop on and add some opinion and analysis to the figures being reported by NPHET.

Plumbthedepths · 10-07-2020 12:12PM

owlbethere wrote: »

You are making excuses for people who are rude and manerless and so quick and easy to ignore the guidelines about hygiene.

Ok no point responding to you further.

Plumbthedepths · 10-07-2020 12:16PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Why because I don't want to catch it

I just think this year going anywhere abroad is like Russian roulette, you can't know for sure it is totally eradicated anywhere, we are hearing of more cases and surges not just in the US and UK

You realise unless you lockdown permanently or until an effective vaccine is found no country can eradicate the virus. We either live with it and manage the consequences or accept we will be heading back to the stone age.

copeyhagen · 10-07-2020 12:18PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ok no point responding to you further.

totally agree with you, few times i have been in a queue outside a shop and coughed or sneezed as normal, by mistake, without realising.

im such a failure of a human being

is_that_so · 10-07-2020 12:19PM

YellowBucket wrote: »

Their nationality is irrelevant if there’s any risk of them not self isolating properly. It’s *anyone* coming from an area of high and poorly managed infection that we need to be ensuring are entering Ireland as little as possible and only very safely if they have to come here.

Being Irish they do get to come home so yeah it is relevant. We'll see that green list in about a week. Random testing strikes me as a balanced approach. I'm certainly not in favour of the notion of "keep the unclean out" that some posters have already got in their heads.

Plumbthedepths · 10-07-2020 12:21PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

totally agree with you, few times i have been in a queue outside a shop and coughed or sneezed as normal, by mistake, without realising.

im such a failure of a human being

Don't worry someday you will obtain perfection like others have managed here.

YellowBucket · 10-07-2020 12:30PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Being Irish they do get to come home so yeah it is relevant. We'll see that green list in about a week. Random testing strikes me as a balanced approach. I'm certainly not in favour of the notion of "keep the unclean out" that some posters have already got in their heads.

They need to enforce a 14 day quarantine or use a proper testing protocol.
Just leaving the door wide open like this and relying on goodwill to prevent spread is a recipe for problems.

If we want to keep traffic moving - use testing and proper quarantine protocols.

Unfortunately, areas of the US have managed this extremely badly and the virus does need to be kept out.

I would also point out the USA unilaterally banned Irish people from travelling there and had no qualms about doing so. You still cannot or travel there as an “alien” (they’re fond of that term), yet we have not reciprocated.

As for Irish people coming back in. They need to be quarantined or reliably tested to ensure they aren’t carrying it.

We even prevented ourselves from moving around the country and then out of our own countries for weeks. So I’m not quite sure why are are so lax about international travel.

It’s not about keeping the “unclean” out. It’s about preventing a highly contagious and high risk disease out as much as possible.

MickeyLeari · 10-07-2020 12:31PM

LiquidZeb wrote: »

From what I understand Britain will get theirs first as they developed it. I'm not sure whose next in line but Astra zeneca say they can make one billion strains in 2 months so really there's enough for everyone.

Is there a difference between developed in the U.K. vs developed by the U.K.

YellowBucket · 10-07-2020 12:37PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Is there a difference between developed in the U.K. vs developed by the U.K.

AstraZeneca is. U.K.-Swedish global company and the vaccine development involved a large number of different inputs from various countries and companies.

It’s not a U.K. government initiative or something like that. The company just happens to have a big R&D centre at Cambridge.

Sesame · 10-07-2020 12:39PM

Maybe wrong thread of this but you all seem to know more than me on the topic. With the increase in cases amongst youth, is this reflected the the hospitalised or death figures? I remember the daily briefings used to include the average age of those who died. Is that still accessible somewhere? It would be interesting to see if it's changing.

ACitizenErased · 10-07-2020 12:42PM

Sesame wrote: »

Maybe wrong thread of this but you all seem to know more than me on the topic. With the increase in cases amongst youth, is this reflected the the hospitalised or death figures? I remember the daily briefings used to include the average age of those who died. Is that still accessible somewhere? It would be interesting to see if it's changing.

The hospitals are empty and we don’t get death data

Beanybabog · 10-07-2020 12:43PM

I was just listening to the radio and someone (and I didn’t catch her name but the way she was being interview sounded like a politician) said that the advice on no travel stands and that was always the intention that the “green” countries list was still supposed to be essential travel only. I don’t think anyone understood that to be the point of the green list?? It’s pointless then

spookwoman · 10-07-2020 12:44PM

Sesame wrote: »

Maybe wrong thread of this but you all seem to know more than me on the topic. With the increase in cases amongst youth, is this reflected the the hospitalised or death figures? I remember the daily briefings used to include the average age of those who died. Is that still accessible somewhere? It would be interesting to see if it's changing.

Go to https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/ for the briefings and then go to statement

is_that_so · 10-07-2020 12:45PM

YellowBucket wrote: »

They need to enforce a 14 day quarantine or use a proper testing protocol.
Just leaving the door wide open like this and relying on goodwill to prevent spread is a recipe for problems.

If we want to keep traffic moving - use testing and proper quarantine protocols.

Unfortunately, areas of the US have managed this extremely badly and the virus does need to be kept out.

I would also point out the USA unilaterally banned Irish people from travelling there and had no qualms about doing so. You still cannot or travel there as an “alien” (they’re fond of that term), yet we have not reciprocated.

As for Irish people coming back in. They need to be quarantined or reliably tested to ensure they aren’t carrying it.

We even prevented ourselves from moving around the country and then out of our own countries for weeks. So I’m not quite sure why are are so lax about international travel.

It’s not about keeping the “unclean” out. It’s about preventing a highly contagious and high risk disease out as much as possible.

A quarantine cannot be enforced, we don't have the laws for it. It also looks very bad. I linked to a story yesterday about Melbourne and how the conversation about COVID-19 had taken quite a nasty turn. It's also happening in NZ. You're veering that way. I believe that travel has accounted for 5 cases over the last week, the rest is all home-grown.

dfx- · 10-07-2020 12:46PM

fritzelly wrote: »

If 5 positive people pass it on to 5 other people that gives an R0 of 1 - what's hard to believe?

we would have a lot more cases. Those five would then pass it on to another 5 and another 5 and another 5.

Northern Ireland estimate is 0.3, that seems more realistic based on the low numbers.

JP Liz V1 · 10-07-2020 12:52PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You realise unless you lockdown permanently or until an effective vaccine is found no country can eradicate the virus. We either live with it and manage the consequences or accept we will be heading back to the stone age.

I guess Flintstones time so

Why is it wrong to worry about your own health, your family and friends and do all possible to avoid catching it or having a second wave happen, we should be trying to prevent as much as possible so no non essential travel out and in of Ireland, stricter testing quarantine at airports etc.,

Benimar · 10-07-2020 12:53PM

YellowBucket wrote: »

I raised an issue about an extreme and very obvious inconsistency implementation of and adherence to social distancing and hygiene measures.

My observation is that they are very patchy. Some places good (some even over the top) and others aren’t bothering and the same applies to individuals.

Without consistency this isn’t going to work very well and those who are taking it reasonably seriously will have their efforts wasted.

It’s frustrating in the extreme to walk into a cafe and find it just find nobody’s taking it seriously at all.

We spent 3 months effectively in a quasi lockdown. I saw my income go down and projects cancelled to achieve some kind of reduction in the spread of this virus and to prevent a health service melt down.

Then you go into a cafe and encounter people just back to carefree business as usual.

I want to see business flowing. I don’t want to see business stopped by a second lockdown caused by complacency of a signifiant % of the population.

There are extremely mixed messages being absorbed, mostly online and mostly from aspects of the US debate, where unfortunately, hard, real facts become debated political topics and reduced to dogmatic matters of opinion.

I genuinely do think that there’s a level of complacency emerging here.

I’m also quite confident, the colleagues who are currently not bothering to work within the guideline and sensible levels of precautions are the very same people who default to blaming “the government” (the HSE, RTE) when anything does go wrong.

Excellent post.

There is a huge difference between living with the virus, and going on as if the virus doesn’t exist. If there are too many in the latter group (and like you I’m seeing more and more of it) then we could end up back in trouble.

People can (and will) blame the government al, they like, it still comes back to personal responsibility. See a restaurant/pub/shop not following basic guidance? Don’t go in, give a business doing their bit your business.

is_that_so · 10-07-2020 12:53PM

dfx- wrote: »

we would have a lot more cases. Those five would then pass it on to another 5 and another 5 and another 5.

Northern Ireland estimate is 0.3, that seems more realistic based on the low numbers.

If we had lots of cases, say 100 plus then there would be considerable concern over R0 at 1 or higher. At 25 cases and below and a good few of them already relate to known clusters, not so much.

YellowBucket · 10-07-2020 12:56PM

is_that_so wrote: »

A quarantine cannot be enforced, we don't have the laws for it. It also looks very bad. I linked to a story yesterday about Melbourne and how the conversation about COVID-19 had taken quite a nasty turn. It's also happening in NZ. You're veering that way. I believe that travel has accounted for 5 cases over the last week, the rest is all home-grown.

I’m not “veering” any way and I think that’s one hell of an accusation to make and I think you should withdraw it.

Australian politics in particular has a major problem with xenophobia and that seems to be what you’re suggesting.

It makes absolutely no sense to control infections here while you’ve connectivity, without checks, to regions of the world, including the United States, that haven’t got very good control of it at all.

The opening of access to and from countries with comparable or better levels of virus suppression makes a lot of sense. Having access from (and not to btw as Trump slammed a full travel ban on us back in February) Dallas for example makes absolutely no sense, unless you’re going to screen passengers properly, which we clearly aren’t doing.

There’s very little reason at this stage we couldn’t do rapid tests and also recoup the cost of those as part of the cost of a flight ticket.

They also should apply to all people travelling from areas with high levels of community transmission, including Irish citizens. The virus doesn’t give a damn what is written on your passport, where you were born, what your citizenship is, what the purpose of your travel is. It’s just a virus.

We should be coordinating tightly with Schengen on this and we aren’t.

The U.K. should be too, but no doubt they won’t and, based on experience of how the Tories have behaved, could well political decide to do something totally counterproductive.

The reality is if we are going to open up global travel to normality, we need mass testing technology available.

We could well still be facing major issues in 12 months time depending on effectiveness and uptake of vaccines for example.

Plumbthedepths · 10-07-2020 12:56PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I guess Flintstones time so

Why is it wrong to worry about your own health, your family and friends and do all possible to avoid catching it or having a second wave happen, we should be trying to prevent as much as possible so no non essential travel out and in of Ireland, stricter testing quarantine at airports etc.,

Nothing wrong with protecting your health but some realism needs to be accept aswell.
Not everyone living in Ireland enjoy the company of their family here. Would their travel not be considered essential?
Do you suggest to restrict the movements of others for an indefinite period of time. Does your concerns supercede the rights of others?
No reason why people should not practice the measures suggested by Nphet/WHO but life has to go on. Although if you wish to regress to cave dwelling your choice.

Jay Dee · 10-07-2020 12:57PM

Hi,

May not be for here relocate if needed.

Every day we get "X" number of new cases.
Is there any way of identifying where in the country they were ?.

Thanks

Jay

Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

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