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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/tcd-plan-will-smooth-the-way-for-students-to-walk-and-cycle-to-college-1.4282643
    TCD plan will smooth the way for students to walk and cycle to college
    Submission to council seeks wider footpaths and more cycle lanes on key routes in Dublin

    The journey to college is never easy, but Trinity College Dublin is making attempts to smooth the road for students and staff with an application for improved footpaths and cycle lanes between its campuses and residences.

    The college is seeking to widen footpaths and install bicycle lanes on more than 8km of key routes around Dublin to enable its 17,000 students and 4,000 staff to walk and cycle safely as the city opens back up.

    The submission follows the publication in May of Dublin City Council and the National Transport Authority’s Enabling the City to Return to Work plan, which outlined what changes would be needed to footpaths and public areas for them to meet Covid-19 social distancing requirements.

    The TCD submission seeks improvements to three priority routes not covered by the council plan. The additional routes are: Trinity College to Grand Canal Innovation District, Nassau Street and Trinity College to St James’s Hospital.

    A fourth route – from Trinity College to Trinity Hall, Dartry – is already covered in the plan.

    Martina Mullin, health promotion officer at TCD, said the four routes had been identified as “priority” corridors for the university two years ago.

    Speed limits
    The council is being urged to introduce measures including prioritising walking and cycling at junctions and reducing speed limits on the four routes.

    “For instance, the Westland Row-Pearse Street junction is a real concern for us,” Ms Mullin said.

    “It has an extremely narrow footpath – we have 1,000 students in the the Trinity Biomedical Sciences Institute on Pearse Street, and they have to pass the Dart station . . . [to get] to our Science Gallery entrance, and there is actually no safe way for them to do that.”

    Prof Brian Caulfield, associate professor in civil engineering at TCD, said the cost of the additional measures “will be quite low”, involving mostly the installation of plastic bollards or “orcas”.

    The college said it was also planning a “substantial increase” in cycle parking on campus and would also advocate for the introduction of a student equivalent of the bike-to-work scheme.

    “TCD is not just relying on the city council to do this for us. The estates and facilities department on campus are putting in a lot of extra cycle parking to enable this to happen so that students and staff that do cycle in will have a safe and secure bike park when they get onto campus,” said Prof Caulfield.

    As adequate social distancing has already proved to be difficult on public transport, students and staff who commute within 5km of TCD are being encouraged to make their way to college by bike or by foot.

    “We are acutely aware that when the city reopens, our community needs to plan how to travel under social distancing requirements. We are asking those who live within 5km of the campus to walk or cycle if possible. We hope that if people are enabled to do so, they will,” said provost Patrick Prendergast.

    I know it might not go anywhere but here's hoping.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Oh it'll go somewhere - Trinity will be very keen to ensure students feel like they can get to campus, and this is about the only way they can help with that. Nothing motivates more than money!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Was in Japan for the Rugby World Cup. Even in Tokyo, I was startled at the amount of cyclists, how pedestrian friendly the city was; and when in a taxi at what you'd imagine would be gridlock times of day, the relative lack of cars on the street. And this the biggest city in the world. I'd shudder to think what the place would look like if they had an Irish attitude towards things (it would look like Jakarta, an absolute nightmare of a city for traffic).

    Walking in Dublin is a headache. The car was given utter priority for decades, mostly I suspect because the powers that be were too chape and unimaginative to invest in quality public transport and the public realm for the future.

    Money could be used as an excuse, but we we had money coming out of our backside for about a decade during the Celtic Tiger upswing and did very little with it for quality of life.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine



    Assuming the next minister brings it through the Oireachtas, this could be in place before Core Bus Corridors if they wanted. It would cover illegal parking, banned turns, bus lanes etc.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Pedestrian trials in Dublin. Disappointing that they're not more extensive in both time and roads.

    https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1278696703974150144

    You can clearly see that it'd be far larger if it wasn't for the BT car park, very frustrating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,550 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Pedestrian trials in Dublin. Disappointing that they're not more extensive in both time and roads.

    https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1278696703974150144

    You can clearly see that it'd be far larger if it wasn't for the BT car park, very frustrating.

    There's a balancing act here - it's a compromise that finally makes South William Street a really nice place to be while maintaining access (albeit in a more difficult manner) to and from three car parks.

    It's a trial, and I suspect that the hours will be extended when it is realised that this is a good and workable solution.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Welcome, disappointing in parts but its all that is achievable with the car parks there.

    It's more disappointing that the pedestrianisation of college green as a covid19 meausure has been binned and there is still no movement on closing liffey street to cars, which was dangerous before there was a virus.

    Can you imagine what all that pedestrian space between Stephen's green and Parnell street would be like.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,550 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Welcome, disappointing in parts but its all that is achievable with the car parks there.

    It's more disappointing that the pedestrianisation of college green as a covid19 meausure has been binned and there is still no movement on closing liffey street to cars, which was dangerous before there was a virus.

    Can you imagine what all that pedestrian space between Stephen's green and Parnell street would be like.

    I think that you and other people took up DCC wrongly on College Green - if you look at the document again they said that they were no longer going down the planning application route, but rather making an administrative order.

    The document clearly states that the implementation period for the bus route changes including College Green would be six to twelve months.

    The one thing that the document didn’t contain was details of the exact routings that diverted bus routes would have to take, particularly relevant for the George’s St routes, so I’m not really surprised that nothing has happened yet.

    Sight of the actual plans would be helpful!

    I would imagine that changing the routes away from College Green is dependent on some of the other measures closer to the canals that were outlined in the document happening first.

    With hybrid buses coming, surely Parliament Street might become a possible diversionary route option for some of the routes at least.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There could have been scope to push back the Parliament Street plan with Euro6 buses and reduced particulates - should be very easy to get it now with the option of geo-fencing on the hybrid powertrains.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    I think that you and other people took up DCC wrongly on College Green - if you look at the document again they said that they were no longer going down the planning application route, but rather making an administrative order.

    The document clearly states that the implementation period for the bus route changes including College Green would be six to twelve months.

    The one thing that the document didn’t contain was details of the exact routings that diverted bus routes would have to take, particularly relevant for the George’s St routes, so I’m not really surprised that nothing has happened yet.

    Sight of the actual plans would be helpful!

    I would imagine that changing the routes away from College Green is dependent on some of the other measures closer to the canals that were outlined in the document happening first.

    With hybrid buses coming, surely Parliament Street might become a possible diversionary route option for some of the routes at least.

    Given that they've gone through the trouble of widening the footpath outside Abercrombie specifically to accommodate bus passengers, I doubt there's any wish to go with pedestrianisation now. Considering that things are more/less back to normal and there isn't an urgency. Development of the Liffey Cycle route is also stalled. I get the impression it's back to the norm, i.e. decades of inaction, and waiting for someone to be killed to make any improvements to the public realm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    I was in North America, and quite common was a sign - 'No Parking - Tow Zone'. It was very effective - gone in 30 seconds.
    Always preferred cars being towed in Canada. Clamping just keeps the problem there. Would also ensure that the side of the road that should be free of cars is free of cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,550 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Given that they've gone through the trouble of widening the footpath outside Abercrombie specifically to accommodate bus passengers, I doubt there's any wish to go with pedestrianisation now. Considering that things are more/less back to normal and there isn't an urgency. Development of the Liffey Cycle route is also stalled. I get the impression it's back to the norm, i.e. decades of inaction, and waiting for someone to be killed to make any improvements to the public realm.

    You’re missing my point.

    There was never a plan to pedestrianise College Green immediately.

    It was clearly stated in the DCC/NTA document published in May that it would be within 6-12 months linked to the other arterial route measures.

    People saw the term Covid and assumed it was immediate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    the_syco wrote: »
    Always preferred cars being towed in Canada. Clamping just keeps the problem there. Would also ensure that the side of the road that should be free of cars is free of cars.

    Towing, now there's a real inconvenience. Imagine "parking" in Merrion Square, and having to go out to Newlands Cross to collect your car. You wouldn't be doing it again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,381 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Saw this yesterday, a new cyclops junction in Manchester. Apparently more to be rolled out there. I'm told there wasn't so much as a pedestrian phase at this particular junction before. Now a cyclist can do a full circle in their green phase.

    https://twitter.com/HarryHamishGray/status/1278356770486976512


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    That junction is fabulous. A work of art. We can only dream here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    ncounties wrote: »
    Towing, now there's a real inconvenience. Imagine "parking" in Merrion Square, and having to go out to Newlands Cross to collect your car. You wouldn't be doing it again.
    You illegally park on a double yellow line.

    In Ireland; clamped, and be in the way for the next few days. You pay the clamp fine, you get to drive away.

    Canada; your car gets towed. It's no longer in the way. You'll have to ring a few places to see where the car is. You'll have to go there when it's open. You have to pay the parking illegally fine, the tow fee, and the per day car storage fee. Failure to pay and your car may be sold to reclaim costs.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    the_syco wrote: »
    You illegally park on a double yellow line.

    In Ireland; clamped, and be in the way for the next few days. You pay the clamp fine, you get to drive away.

    Canada; your car gets towed. It's no longer in the way. You'll have to ring a few places to see where the car is. You'll have to go there when it's open. You have to pay the parking illegally fine, the tow fee, and the per day car storage fee. Failure to pay and your car may be sold to reclaim costs.

    I abroad some time ago and got clamped. Now I'll explain the resolution in Dublin terms.

    Say I was parked in St Stephen's Green or Baggot St. The car clamped and an envelope under the windscreen wiper. Take the envelope down to Kevin St Garda Stn, and queue in the special queue for clamped vehicles.

    When it is your turn, which would typically be 20 minutes, you hand in your envelope plus your driving licence, and the Garda inspects it all, takes at least 5 mins, and then stamps the paperwork and tells you to go to the GPO to pay the fine and unclamp fee.

    You then walk up to the GPO and queue again for your turn - another 20 mins. When you get to the front, you pay your fine and unclamp fee and are told to go back to Kevin St. You wait again in the same queue you were in before for another 20 mins.

    When you get to the front, the Garda checks you have paid and stamps you paperwork 'Release' and you return to your car and wait until the clamper returns - maybe 30 mins maybe more.

    You are released, after maybe an hour and a half or maybe two and a half hours. And all because you were only going to be two minutes.

    The system is designed to be as awkward as possible, time consuming, and expensive. It gets you on all three counts. You will not do it twice.

    Towing also works.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I abroad some time ago and got clamped. Now I'll explain the resolution in Dublin terms.

    Say I was parked in St Stephen's Green or Baggot St. The car clamped and an envelope under the windscreen wiper. Take the envelope down to Kevin St Garda Stn, and queue in the special queue for clamped vehicles.

    When it is your turn, which would typically be 20 minutes, you hand in your envelope plus your driving licence, and the Garda inspects it all, takes at least 5 mins, and then stamps the paperwork and tells you to go to the GPO to pay the fine and unclamp fee.

    You then walk up to the GPO and queue again for your turn - another 20 mins. When you get to the front, you pay your fine and unclamp fee and are told to go back to Kevin St. You wait again in the same queue you were in before for another 20 mins.

    When you get to the front, the Garda checks you have paid and stamps you paperwork 'Release' and you return to your car and wait until the clamper returns - maybe 30 mins maybe more.

    You are released, after maybe an hour and a half or maybe two and a half hours. And all because you were only going to be two minutes.

    The system is designed to be as awkward as possible, time consuming, and expensive. It gets you on all three counts. You will not do it twice.

    Towing also works.

    I'd replace Garda station with city/county offices. Its not a criminal matter and does not require wasting of Garda resources. Otherwise, yeah, spot on, make it as much of a pain in the ass as possible.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I'd replace Garda station with city/county offices. Its not a criminal matter and does not require wasting of Garda resources. Otherwise, yeah, spot on, make it as much of a pain in the ass as possible.

    Well, yea but the Garda office is open all the time, but it could just as easily be the Civic office or even the clampers office. Of course, the payment has to be a pain as well, so it has to be a payment office open all hours s well.

    Thr main point is the whole procedure is designed to be not only time consuming, but requires a large amount of walking, and waiting, and paying.

    If you are well off, then time is money. If you are in a hurry, then slow down - you are in this for the long wait. And the unclamp comes when it comes - so highly stressful and frustrating. If only I had parked legally.

    Never done twice deliberately.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    I'd replace Garda station with city/county offices. Its not a criminal matter and does not require wasting of Garda resources. Otherwise, yeah, spot on, make it as much of a pain in the ass as possible.

    You’re a Defunding the Police advocate?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You’re a Defunding the Police advocate?

    Please try harder


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Clamping needs to be done away with but not actual parking enforcement. Clamping cars parked in the road/cycle lane/footpath prolongs the problem and creates bigger issues. Just issue the fine, the big dirty sticker on the drivers window is notice enough. The devise that is used to register the offence should also take a photo of the car in case the car owner disputes it later. This would be faster, not be limited by the number of clamps in the van and not having to spend time going round removing clamps will make them more productive and cover a bigger area.

    More productive parking enforcement increases the chances of getting caught which makes illegal parking less attractive. No matter how awkward it is, if chances of getting caught is low then people will take the chance and justify the hassle/expense with the time/money saved from all the other times they parked Illegally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Clamping needs to be done away with but not actual parking enforcement. Clamping cars parked in the road/cycle lane/footpath prolongs the problem and creates bigger issues. Just issue the fine, the big dirty sticker on the drivers window is notice enough. The devise that is used to register the offence should also take a photo of the car in case the car owner disputes it later. This would be faster, not be limited by the number of clamps in the van and not having to spend time going round removing clamps will make them more productive and cover a bigger area.

    More productive parking enforcement increases the chances of getting caught which makes illegal parking less attractive. No matter how awkward it is, if chances of getting caught is low then people will take the chance and justify the hassle/expense with the time/money saved from all the other times they parked Illegally.

    Ideally obstructions should be towed, I agree clamping is a waste of time for everyone, when only the clampee should be having their time wasted. I feel like your solution would simply further gum up the already creaking courts. You can't really argue a towing fee unless you don't want to see your car again.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Ideally obstructions should be towed, I agree clamping is a waste of time for everyone, when only the clampee should be having their time wasted. I feel like your solution would simply further gum up the already creaking courts. You can't really argue a towing fee unless you don't want to see your car again.

    Towing is the optimum penalty for parking in a cycle lane, on a double yellow line, at a bus stop or other forms of obstruction. Car gone, time to find it and retrieve it, and pay fine, towing charge, and storage charge. Time to vow - never again.

    Clamping works for parking in a legal fee paying space but failing to pay. Clamping should be a horrendous waste of the offenders time, money, and temper - designed to be that, and no easy way out. They walk, they pay, and they wait, and then vow that never again will they be so stupid etc.

    P&R needs to be provided to give most motorist the opportunity to use PT for the last few Kms of their trip. Works for Oxford, and would work for Irish cities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Ideally obstructions should be towed, I agree clamping is a waste of time for everyone, when only the clampee should be having their time wasted. I feel like your solution would simply further gum up the already creaking courts. You can't really argue a towing fee unless you don't want to see your car again.

    The rate at which cars can be towed is very low considering the time required to hook up the car, bring it to a suitable location and unhook it. You'd need a large number of tow vehicles in operation which would be a significant cost. There is also the issue that some vehicles can't be towed like HGVs. Simply ticketing vehicles would enable maximum productivity from enforcement staff which will see a far greater proportion of offenders punished. You could cut the cost of clamps, and potentially clamping vehicles too, allowing more staff within the same budget. The greater the chance of being caught, the less people who will park illegally.

    We should be looking at ways of collecting fines from those who won't pay themselves, getting Revenue involved is probably the most effective way. Id also look at preventing people from taxing the car if there is an outstanding fine, thereby creating more trouble and greater cost and punishment for the offender would also help. I suggested photos of the offending car as a method of preventing frivolous appeals from the offender.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,411 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    We need to add penalty points to parking tickets to address repeat offenders.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Please try harder

    Thanks. I will.


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