Cities around the world that are reducing car access

cgcsb

So basically it's the guts of bus connects in the city centre, implemented in a mater of days, without public consultations, planning permission, glossy brochures and consultants fees. As I stated some months ago on this thread, it's always been possible to do but there was no will.

Wonder could they extend this to the whole city and the remaining parts of bus connects requiring cpo or major junction changes could be repackaged as a smaller project with less fanfare and we'd save ourselves a few quid.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Would have liked to see a version published for Cork too.. God knows we need it. And fast.

Peregrine

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Would have liked to see a version published for Cork too.. God knows we need it. And fast.

That's down to Cork City Council. NTA only has statutory power in the GDA for things like this. Not counting taxi regulation or the bus market.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Peregrine wrote: »

That's down to Cork City Council. NTA only has statutory power in the GDA.

They were hinting at a Cork office. Maybe sometime in the future.

We'd get nothing done with CCC solely in charge. Useless they are!

Peregrine

Cork has just been awful. Their list of streets to be pedestrianised has streets that were already pedestrianised. Serious lack of vision.

What can you expect from a council whose CEO began a meeting with cycling campaigners by reading out complaints about cyclists?

magicbastarder

one thing i was curious to see whether it'd happen, and clearly has not, is a return of the bubble car style of vehicle, with electric cars becoming popular again. i can see the pluses and minuses, but if you could make a three wheeler like the isetta or messerschmidt KR200, but legally qualifying as a motorbike, it might be handy for the sort of person who has a 10km suburban or urban, trip where a bike might not be suitable.

Sam Russell

magicbastarder wrote: »

one thing i was curious to see whether it'd happen, and clearly has not, is a return of the bubble car style of vehicle, with electric cars becoming popular again. i can see the pluses and minuses, but if you could make a three wheeler like the isetta or messerschmidt KR200, but legally qualifying as a motorbike, it might be handy for the sort of person who has a 10km suburban or urban, trip where a bike might not be suitable.

The electric scooter is a better candidate. It needs legislation and standard specification, plus insurance and identity - number plates in other words.

Great solution from what I see, but needs to be limited to say 20 km/hr.

Lord Glentoran

Sam Russell wrote: »

The electric scooter is a better candidate. It needs legislation and standard specification, plus insurance and identity - number plates in other words.

Great solution from what I see, but needs to be limited to say 20 km/hr.

“Plus insurance and number plates” will mean scooter owners will be screwed for a grand a year by tax and insurance and will be walloped for VRT. Self defeating.

namloc1980

Cork City Council doing a consultation on their paltry pedestrianisation proposals:

.

magicbastarder

it would be gas to see how much insurance a scooter owner could be charged. the damage you could do with one would be utterly paltry compared to the damage you could do with a car, so it'd need to be 10%, or much less, of the normal you'd pay for car insurance.
in fact, i suspect the biggest payouts would be from scooter damage to cars. thus underlining yet again that cars are the unnecessary side of that unbalanced equation.

Sam Russell

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

“Plus insurance and number plates” will mean scooter owners will be screwed for a grand a year by tax and insurance and will be walloped for VRT. Self defeating.

I think the idea that escooters will become a revenue stream for the Gov is a preposterous idea. If that was the case, surely cyclists would have been hit hard instead of benefiting from 'cycle to work' schemes. They cost little in way of infrastructure, and little to park, so why try to raise revenue from them when they solve a major problem?

magicbastarder wrote: »

it would be gas to see how much insurance a scooter owner could be charged. the damage you could do with one would be utterly paltry compared to the damage you could do with a car, so it'd need to be 10%, or much less, of the normal you'd pay for car insurance.
in fact, i suspect the biggest payouts would be from scooter damage to cars. thus underlining yet again that cars are the unnecessary side of that unbalanced equation.

Insurance could be an issue, but if escooters are properly specced, then accidents would be few if the speed is limited, and riders have helmets. It is likely that rider identity might be required, but in most countries cyclists do not require it. So maybe a nominal 'insurance' charge might work, but probably not worth it.

Hopefully sense will prevail.

Thelonious Monk

Why arent mopeds and the likes encouaged too? They run on nothing and you can get around the city almost as easily as on a bike.

Sam Russell

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why arent mopeds and the likes encouaged too? They run on nothing and you can get around the city almost as easily as on a bike.

They are not discouraged. However, e-scooters are a better 'last mile' solution as they can be ridden at least 10 km, and are non polluting, and cheap to run.

Just need to regularise them.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why arent mopeds and the likes encouaged too? They run on nothing and you can get around the city almost as easily as on a bike.

There was a time when you got a free moped licence with a full car licence when you passed your car driving test, that stopped many years ago.

I have such a licence, so for me is I commuted in Dublin, an e-moped would be a no-brainer, but the issue I would have is storage at the station!



We should not encourage the petrol ones though as they're the worst polluters around.

SeanW

Deleted User wrote: »

We should not encourage the petrol ones though as they're the worst polluters around.

How do mopeds (and motorcycles in general) compare to cars for pollution? I would have assumed motorcycles pollute less as they have very small engines for a much lighter vehicle?

Sam Russell

SeanW wrote: »

How do mopeds (and motorcycles in general) compare to cars for pollution? I would have assumed motorcycles pollute less as they have very small engines for a much lighter vehicle?

But cars pollute more than buses despite being smaller. The standards for buses are much more stringent than for cars. Not sure how cleam motorcycles are compared with cars. Some motor cycles have larger engines than the smaller cars.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

But cars pollute more than buses despite being smaller. The standards for buses are much more stringent than for cars. Not sure how cleam motorcycles are compared with cars. Some motor cycles have larger engines than the smaller cars.

About 15 years ago, Mythbusters actually tested this, here is a short review of the results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAmlldzJOM

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a time when you got a free moped licence with a full car licence when you passed your car driving test, that stopped many years ago.

We should not encourage the petrol ones though as they're the worst polluters around.

They should bring it back for e-mopeds.
Interesting the way the practically eliminated the petrol ones in major Chinese Citys overnight by requiring a licence for them, many users just converted to electric e-moped by ripping out the petrol engine and installing a battery.

Thelonious Monk

I would imagine the powers that be would view mopeds or e-mopeds as just another annoyance for car drivers and would be reluctant to have them on the roads. You never see mopeds any more in Dublin, they used to be all over the place. It's a shame, they use feck all fuel and don't cause any congestion.

CatInABox

There's a proposal to change Dublin city into a 30kph city, which would be amazing for pedestrians and cyclists. Pearse and Tara street often feel like you're taking your life in your hands just walking along the paths.

https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1267837401247952896

Enforcement would be key of course, but this would still make a massive difference. This has passed the transport committee already, so will come before the full council before, hopefully, a public consultation.

Of course, the car park rep was against it. :rolleyes:

CatInABox

Work on expanded pedestrian and cyclist facilities continues as well.

https://twitter.com/DubCityCouncil/status/1268476293869420545

cgcsb

is there any new proposed timeline on pedestrianising the green?

Pinch Flat

Great to see some rapid developments in Dublin that have been talked about for years. The Liffey Cycling lane and the pedestrianization of college green are most welcome. It really has been an unpleasant, car dominated city - even having a conversation while walking down Pearse Street is difficult. of course, the 30 kph / hr limits are largely ignored - policing won't work as it's too resource heavy and sporadic. Be nice to see camera tech / average speed cameras being used to monitor this. And bus lanes as well - they were being heavily abused pre-Covid.

magicbastarder

posted this in a different thread, but vaguely similar context - i assume there's been no change to the laws referenced in this?
cllr andrew montague raised this question after i asked him about it a few years ago.

Question to the Chief Executive
Council Meeting 04th JULY 2016
Q.85 COUNCILLOR ANDREW MONTAGUE
Can the Chief Executive install a zebra crossing at Castlemarket at the junction with South William Street?

CHIEF EXECUTIVE’S REPLY:
Dublin City Council does not recommend Zebra crossings as they may provide a false sense of safety for pedestrians. In Ireland, a pedestrian does not have the right-of-way until they have already stepped onto a Zebra crossing. For this reason Dublin City Council’s preferred option is for crossings where the onus is unambiguously on the driver to stop.

The location is listed for examination and report by the Traffic Advisory Group. The Councillor will be informed of the recommendation in due course.

riddlinrussell

CatInABox wrote: »

There's a proposal to change Dublin city into a 30kph city, which would be amazing for pedestrians and cyclists. Pearse and Tara street often feel like you're taking your life in your hands just walking along the paths.

https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1267837401247952896

Enforcement would be key of course, but this would still make a massive difference. This has passed the transport committee already, so will come before the full council before, hopefully, a public consultation.

Of course, the car park rep was against it. :rolleyes:

A point raised on twitter regarding this was that with 30 km/h limits in place the street design and layout requirements change, lanes can be made narrower and corners sharper on a 30 km/h road than a 50 km/h. So while enforcement is definitely needed, street design will hopefully follow that psychologically demands slower driving.

CatInABox

magicbastarder wrote: »

posted this in a different thread, but vaguely similar context - i assume there's been no change to the laws referenced in this?
cllr andrew montague raised this question after i asked him about it a few years ago.

I don't think I've heard anything like it over the years.

I wonder if they could make the Zebra crossing start before the path/road edge, so people are legally "on" the crossing before they even leave the path?

Anyway, that's much of a muchness, the solution is to fix the law on this, as it is with so many other traffic offenses. Hopefully once politicians see that there's widespread support for these measures, and stop listening solely to the Car Park crowd, they'll realise that this is the kind of thing people want in Dublin, and other towns and cities.

magicbastarder

according to an article from thejournal.ie;

Motorists must give way to pedestrians on or at a zebra crossing (even if they are only waiting to cross)

which clearly contradicts the statement from the council.

i'll see if i can find the law.
edit - looks like the council are right?

(6) A driver of a vehicle approaching a zebra pedestrian crossing where traffic sign number RPC 001 (zebra pedestrian crossing) is provided shall yield the right of way to any pedestrian who has commenced crossing the road at the zebra pedestrian crossing.”,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print?q=zebra&search_type=all

my emphasis. a driver must only yield to pedestrians who are already on the crossing. so zebra crossings are essentially pointless from a legal point of view.

cgcsb

More importantly, why do we need cars on South William Street? what do they add to the area?

magicbastarder

main issue with removing cars from south william street is that, in their wisdom, the council allowed BT to use it as the exit for their car park.

cgcsb

Cars can turn right and right again when exiting. Ultimately that car park should no longer be there.