Cities around the world that are reducing car access

L1011

I imagine that'll be sold off for development, or used as such for the store itself, in the next boom. Another problematic to route around carpark, Trinity Street, is closing for redevelopment as it is

CatInABox

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1268841479079895043

OPW reverses decision on reopening the rest of the Pheonix Park gates. Really is great for park as an amenity. Now to work on getting them to reduce the speed limit in there on the main road.

Peregrine

magicbastarder wrote: »

main issue with removing cars from south william street is that, in their wisdom, the council allowed BT to use it as the exit for their car park.

In the government's wisdom, we also encouraged them to build the damn thing in the first place!

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/bank-and-developer-buy-bt-car-park-1.38782

magicbastarder

limerick traders are not happy with some mooted (temporary) plans for pedestrianisation:

https://twitter.com/Limerick_Leader/status/1269360180241678336

Sam Russell

magicbastarder wrote: »

limerick traders are not happy with some mooted (temporary) plans for pedestrianisation:

https://twitter.com/Limerick_Leader/status/1269360180241678336

Traders are very short sighted seeing pedestrianisation as a negative when it is a positive in the medium and long term. How many Grafton St traders would agree to a return of traffic in the street? How has Naas or Athlone fared since the bypass?

Take the traffic out and the shoppers come back.

Dats me

Sam Russell wrote: »

Traders are very short sighted seeing pedestrianisation as a negative when it is a positive in the medium and long term. How many Grafton St traders would agree to a return of traffic in the street? How has Naas or Athlone fared since the bypass?

Take the traffic out and the shoppers come back.

I think it's mainly fear - if your profit margin is 10% even a small could kill your business.


The real issue is that businesses seem to be able to stonewall any policy they disagree with. You're right that it's not a coincidence that Grafton Street and Henry Street are the busiest streets in the city and country. And that driving through the average rural town is usually quite depressing, filled with a mic of dereliction, vape shops and €2 stores.



Particularly now, are people going to risk getting coronavirus walking on narrow footpaths beside traffic? We have to make our town centres actually pleasant to make sure the idea of a town centre doesn't die, it's understandable that businesses are scared but they're killing our towns. Councils and councillors need to.be brave.

Sam Russell

Dats me wrote: »

I think it's mainly fear - if your profit margin is 10% even a small could kill your business.


The real issue is that businesses seem to be able to stonewall any policy they disagree with. You're right that it's not a coincidence that Grafton Street and Henry Street are the busiest streets in the city and country. And that driving through the average rural town is usually quite depressing, filled with a mic of dereliction, vape shops and €2 stores.



Particularly now, are people going to risk getting coronavirus walking on narrow footpaths beside traffic? We have to make our town centres actually pleasant to make sure the idea of a town centre doesn't die, it's understandable that businesses are scared but they're killing our towns. Councils and councillors need to.be brave.

You just have to look at small towns in the UK where the out of town supermarkets have hollowed out the local towns such that they are only pound shops, charity shops, and vacant shops left - the shopping equivalent of 'fly over' towns.

I doubt that the UK will ever recover, and I hope we don't continue further down that road.

L1011

Peregrine wrote: »

In the government's wisdom, we also encouraged them to build the damn thing in the first place!

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/bank-and-developer-buy-bt-car-park-1.38782

DCC and the state had some very odd ideas about how to try and return life to a city centre that their own policies destroyed (road widening and slow CPO processes leaving entire streets to rot, then left as surface carparks for years; rates rules encouraging people to let the upper floors of a building rot or physically remove them; etc etc) in the 1990s.

Cork Street has still not recovered from the road widening hangover.

Sam Russell wrote: »

How has Naas or Athlone fared since the bypass?

Naas is a bad example due to other bad decisions - retail parks built both sides of the town; the failed redevelopment of the original Superquinn in the town (its now a Dunnes food store, but it was empty for maybe a decade) and the bad timing of the main shopping centre development on the main street due to it being still an empty shell. Even the McDonalds in the town centre closed down when they opened one at a retail park!

AndrewJRenko

Sam Russell wrote: »

Traders are very short sighted seeing pedestrianisation as a negative when it is a positive in the medium and long term. How many Grafton St traders would agree to a return of traffic in the street? How has Naas or Athlone fared since the bypass?

Take the traffic out and the shoppers come back.

Do they not read the papers at all? 15% increase in trade on Suffolk St after pedestrianisation.

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/business-group-wants-more-cycle-lanes-and-wider-paths-instead-of-dublin-city-car-ban-998438.html

JohnC.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do they not read the papers at all? 15% increase in trade on Suffolk St after pedestrianisation.

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/business-group-wants-more-cycle-lanes-and-wider-paths-instead-of-dublin-city-car-ban-998438.html

This keeps happening. Time after time, city centre pedestrianisation leads to stories about an increase in business. Yet time after time, proposed future pedestrianisation leads to business objecting because of a perceived loss of business.

They don't look to evidence from elsewhere. They just go on what they feel will happen with no thought of evidence.

magicbastarder

would be curious as to how many of those business owners drive in. maybe they could even ask their staff how they get in to their jobs.

Pinch Flat

JohnC. wrote: »

This keeps happening. Time after time, city centre pedestrianisation leads to stories about an increase in business. Yet time after time, proposed future pedestrianisation leads to business objecting because of a perceived loss of business.

They don't look to evidence from elsewhere. They just go on what they feel will happen with no thought of evidence.

I'd love to see how a proposal to open up Grafton street and Henry street to traffic would go down with traders

LXFlyer

The reality is that retailers these days work on such tight profit margins, that they will virtually always oppose change, for fear of negative impacts on trading, and as such they want to maintain the status quo. They rarely look beyond the next year, let alone four or five years hence.

However it behoves DCC and the NTA to press on with plans to improve the city centre realm and at the same time that maintains more limited access to car parks.

salonfire

JohnC. wrote: »

This keeps happening. Time after time, city centre pedestrianisation leads to stories about an increase in business. Yet time after time, proposed future pedestrianisation leads to business objecting because of a perceived loss of business.

They don't look to evidence from elsewhere. They just go on what they feel will happen with no thought of evidence.

To be fair, the evidence of successful pedestrianization is from cities like Galway and Dublin that have buses running from the suburbs into the shopping areas.

There is no such evidence from a regional town with no such suburban catchment area or bus services.

Surely regional towns need to hold onto to car-parks and car access.

magicbastarder

there's a difference between holding onto car parks and what some towns have allowed the centres to become; i was in kinsale last year for the first time in years and taken aback with how choked with cars it was.
and dungarvan - possibly one of the greatest examples in ireland of how non-motorised wheeled transport, can benefit a town, ironically has what could be a lovely central square which is just a surface car park.

CatInABox

Yes, far too many towns in Ireland are under the belief that if people have a car, they are incapable of walking. The main shopping area should be mostly pedestrianised, with multiple smaller car parks on the approach roads. Very few people in Ireland mind a five minute walk, and everyone would benefit from a more people friendly area.

This is in smaller towns, obviously cities have their own public transport network to move people.

Peregrine

If Ennis can do this, why can't other similar towns do it?

http://clareherald.com/2020/05/ennis-town-centre-to-be-pedestrianised-this-week-19199/

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Ennis have been pulling a blinder really. Fair play to the businesses and Clare Coco, and that Better Ennis campaign group too...

If only city management here in Cork were as ambitious.

Sam Russell

I think traffic wardens should be reintroduced to curb (pardon the pun) drivers from parking on the pavement. Drivers frequently do this when they are 'only going to be a minute', and haven't bothered looking for a legal place to park, even when there is such a place a few metres away.

If they also checked motor tax, insurance, and NCT, their wages would be recouped.

Why do delivery drivers always park across curbs? - and across cycle lanes? - and generally park illegally?

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think traffic wardens should be reintroduced to curb (pardon the pun) drivers from parking on the pavement. Drivers frequently do this when they are 'only going to be a minute', and haven't bothered looking for a legal place to park, even when there is such a place a few metres away.

If they also checked motor tax, insurance, and NCT, their wages would be recouped.

Why do delivery drivers always park across curbs? - and across cycle lanes? - and generally park illegally?

Driving in Ireland is generally poor for Northern Europe, the stop line and the yellow box are meaningless here and inching forward when you think lights ought to go green is standard behavior.

But the parking situation here is worse than any part of the western world as far as I have seen. You'll probably be clamped if you park in a legal space and your time runs out but there won't be any enforcement measures taken if you park illegally in a cycle lane, footpath, double yellow line or clearway. The only exception to this is if you park on front of some private development who have their own parking enforcement contacts. There are numerous examples of 'clearways' in Dublin that are quite simply free parking. Ranelagh and Stoneybatter come to mind but there are many more examples. In Dublin you can even park in a bus stop and not an eyelid batted.

Chiparus

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Ennis have been pulling a blinder really. Fair play to the businesses and Clare Coco, and that Better Ennis campaign group too...

If only city management here in Cork were as ambitious.

Wexford main street has been pedestrianised for the last 20 years.

Cork........,well lets say Cork people dont get out of Cork much.:D

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

Driving in Ireland is generally poor for Northern Europe, the stop line and the yellow box are meaningless here and inching forward when you think lights ought to go green is standard behavior.

But the parking situation here is worse than any part of the western world as far as I have seen. You'll probably be clamped if you park in a legal space and your time runs out but there won't be any enforcement measures taken if you park illegally in a cycle lane, footpath, double yellow line or clearway. The only exception to this is if you park on front of some private development who have their own parking enforcement contacts. There are numerous examples of 'clearways' in Dublin that are quite simply free parking. Ranelagh and Stoneybatter come to mind but there are many more examples. In Dublin you can even park in a bus stop and not an eyelid batted.

Well, when clamping was first introduced, parking legally became the norm, and traffic flow improved.

A return to that level of enforcement would return to those days of free flow traffic. Hopefully.

I was in North America, and quite common was a sign - 'No Parking - Tow Zone'. It was very effective - gone in 30 seconds.

Chiparus

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, when clamping was first introduced, parking legally became the norm, and traffic flow improved.

A return to that level of enforcement would return to those days of free flow traffic. Hopefully.

I was in North America, and quite common was a sign - 'No Parking - Tow Zone'. It was very effective - gone in 30 seconds.

Actually think we need to have a private operator, not one of the fly by night merchants , but a proper one funded to perform the service rather than the ammount of fines given.

Another town that is farcical for on street parking is Westport. I was utterly shocked by how much space was given to parking and it really detracts from the charm of the town

Sam Russell

The problem of parking is exacerbated by the LA need to use parking as a revenue stream rather than a traffic flow control measure.

On street parking should be limited significantly and it should be enforced to allow free flow of traffic, with off street car parks used to provide cheep parking with adequate access to traders/shopping/workers.

Maybe, the Tidy Towns crowd could include parking as a criteria in their judging.

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

The problem of parking is exacerbated by the LA need to use parking as a revenue stream rather than a traffic flow control measure.

On street parking should be limited significantly and it should be enforced to allow free flow of traffic, with off street car parks used to provide cheep parking with adequate access to traders/shopping/workers.

Maybe, the Tidy Towns crowd could include parking as a criteria in their judging.

If they could collect fines from illegal parking and CCTV enforced illegal use of bus lanes then DCC would be Europe's Dubai. :pac:

Pinch Flat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Another town that is farcical for on street parking is Westport. I was utterly shocked by how much space was given to parking and it really detracts from the charm of the town

Look at waterford. One massive car park stretches along a Victorian quay. One of the longest of its type. Cars stretch as far as the eye can see. And people wonder why there's traffic problems in waterford. Apparently caused by the cycle lanes according to the locals.

Thargor

I live in Bray and theres always plans to redo the Seafront and stuff like that, its the same for most towns, they all have Galway 2030 type plans they push with a load of apartments built up to the waterfront with a few shops and restaurants on the ground floor, they always use the same style of graphics that make everything look clean and open because the graphics never include the fact that the whole thing will be one giant carpark if it ever gets built, theres never a single car included in the drawings though.

Chiparus

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Look at waterford. One massive car park stretches along a Victorian quay. One of the longest of its type. Cars stretch as far as the eye can see. And people wonder why there's traffic problems in waterford. Apparently caused by the cycle lanes according to the locals.

To be fair to Waterford , it has one of the largest pedestrian areas as a proportion of the city centre. And as for traffic problems , it has nothing on Galway.

LeinsterDub

Sam Russell wrote: »

The problem of parking is exacerbated by the LA need to use parking as a revenue stream rather than a traffic flow control measure.

On street parking should be limited significantly and it should be enforced to allow free flow of traffic, with off street car parks used to provide cheep parking with adequate access to traders/shopping/workers.

Maybe, the Tidy Towns crowd could include parking as a criteria in their judging.

Why not just switch the focus to the suburbs where illegal parking is rife?