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How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

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    #1052
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    and possibly decreasing the wages within the construction industry, and since markets dont occur in a vacuum, are you will to possibly take a wage cut?

    unionization is rapidly declining, it has since we moved to more neoliberial/neo classical economics

    Unions are not in the business of cutting wages.


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    #1053
    joeharte123
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭joeharte123


    I feel sorry for single people trying to afford a house on their own. I know people have done it, but it is so much harder if you're on your own. Unless you're on a colossal wage!


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    #1054
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    limnam wrote: »
    Unions are not in the business of cutting wages.

    of course theyre not, how is continual wage deflation good for an economy whereby there is almost continual asset price inflation?


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    #1055
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    of course theyre not, how is continual wage deflation good for an economy whereby there is almost continual asset price inflation?

    I don't think this discussion has much left it tbh as I'm lost on what your point is.

    Your answer to get cheaper housing is to unionise construction that will force construction costs to increase.

    Good luck with that.


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    #1056
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    joeharte123 wrote: »
    I feel sorry for single people trying to afford a house on their own. I know people have done it, but it is so much harder if you're on your own. Unless you're on a colossal wage!

    Maybe it's time to lose our obsession with houses?


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    #1057
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    limnam wrote: »
    I don't think this discussion has much left it tbh as I'm lost on what your point is.

    Your answer to get cheaper housing is to unionise construction that will force construction costs to increase.

    Good luck with that.

    im not just advocating for increased unionization of the construction industry, but of the workforce in general, we had far less inequality in the past from this, but im also advocating for a lot more than that, we have to do something about the growing inequality between the young and the old, younger generations are getting locked out of critical markets such as housing


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    #1058
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    limnam wrote: »
    Maybe it's time to lose our obsession with houses?

    maybe, but we need to increase securities for both accommodation owners and tenents, our current approach is exposing both


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    #1059
    joeharte123
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭joeharte123


    limnam wrote: »
    Maybe it's time to lose our obsession with houses?

    I agree that Irish people have a unique obsession to own a house - historically, real estate was seen as an investment for pensions, children's education and so on.

    In more recent times, many young people feel the need to buy a house as rent per month is almost double of a mortgage monthly repayment, and at the end of it all the young person owns a house!

    I would definitely say if rent was affordable, young people they would consider renting long term like they do in Continental Europe.


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    #1060
    OEP
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭OEP


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    In a report last year they said over 5 %of Irish workers where on 100 grand so I assumed when you said you where in the top 5 % you where making more than 100 grand,

    But what you say above is of course correct,

    I thought I saw report that said over about 85k was top 5% - anyway we're splitting hairs, the point is still the same really!


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    #1061
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    joeharte123 wrote: »
    I agree that Irish people have a unique obsession to own a house - historically, real estate was seen as an investment for pensions, children's education and so on.

    In more recent times, many young people feel the need to buy a house as rent per month is almost double of a mortgage monthly repayment, and at the end of it all the young person owns a house!

    I would definitely say if rent was affordable, young people they would consider renting long term like they do in Continental Europe.

    That happens when you haven't been building for 10+ years


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    #1062
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    taxation is a major problem, the fact over the last few decades, it has been moved from more wealthier plutocratic elements towards the average worker, expect them to eventually get pissed off!

    The "wealthy" pay a huge amount of tax in this country, we have one of the narrowest tax nets in Europe I believe.

    Everyone should have skin in the game, no matter how little.


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    #1063
    LeineGlas
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭LeineGlas


    limnam wrote: »
    Maybe it's time to lose our obsession with houses?

    The "obsession" is driven by the way people are treated by landlords.

    It's galling to be lining the pockets of the wealthy when in theory your salary could be going towards funding your own property purchase.

    Why should 40% of my salary go to someone who happens possess excess property when 25% of my salary could fund the purchase of my own property?


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    #1064
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    LeineGlas wrote: »
    The "obsession" is driven by the way people are treated by landlords.

    It's galling to be lining the pockets of the wealthy when in theory your salary could be going towards funding your own property purchase.

    Why should 40% of my salary go to someone who happens possess excess property when 25% of my salary could fund the purchase of my own property?

    If this is going to turn into a rent is dead money thread.

    I'm out


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    #1065
    joeharte123
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭joeharte123


    limnam wrote: »
    That happens when you haven't been building for 10+ years

    True. In the UK, in comparison established urban houses, 'new build' houses are among the cheapest on the market. A developer builds uniform 3 bed semi detached houses on a plot of land, young couples buy them up, raise their children with the aim to move out later in life.

    In Ireland, 'new build' houses seem to be the among most expensive in an area, leaving young people with heavy debt of mortgage repayments each month. An obvious solution to this would be to build more houses, relaxing the demand on these new built homes and therefore reducing the prices to a more sustainable and manageable level.


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    #1066
    joeharte123
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭joeharte123


    limnam wrote: »
    If this is going to turn into a rent is dead money thread.

    I'm out

    The 'rent is dead money' is only a valid argument if renting cost significantly more than monthly mortgage repayments for the same type of house.

    Of course, there are many people that would be happy to rent long term, provided they're benefiting in other areas of thier life (more discretionary income for holidays, days out etc..). The way it is now, yes, rent is dead money - in the long run the person has nothing to show for the money they're paying each month!


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    #1067
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Lux23 wrote: »
    They never got rent allowance or whatever it was back then, as they worked full-time but got a council house in a private estate after ten years on the list in 1990 - they were extremely lucky to get it and it was a lovely home to grow up in and it was great that the option was available - it still should be! They tried and failed to get a mortgage as well, but my Dad's precarious health always went against him and he was considered too old by the time they had the deposit together. An awful lot of bad luck especially when I compare them to their brothers and sisters who all have their own homes with the same level of education and in some cases they didn't even work.

    It still doesn't take away from the fact that they worked hard throughout their life, nobody who owes their home is necessarily working any harder.

    ok so the state has subsidised their housing need. im not sure what point you are making, of course someone can work hard in an unskilled role and not have enough money for a house but the solution to that is state support.

    are they not priviledged to get state support?


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    #1068
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Ush1 wrote: »
    The "wealthy" pay a huge amount of tax in this country, we have one of the narrowest tax nets in Europe I believe.

    Everyone should have skin in the game, no matter how little.

    its also important to add, the wealthy are at times more a what than a who, the truth is, we re actually a tax haven for large corporations, and have been for a long time, its our, 'dont mention the war' situation. we desperately need access to more of the wealth thats created from these corporations, i think accepting partial payment of revenue from them should be in stocks and shares, and utilize sovereign wealth funds from there. taxation is currently skewed heavily towards the average worker and away from these more plutocratic elements in society, its a common policy under free market/neoliberial ideology, and its failing.

    we badly need taxes such as land value taxes as well

    i do think everyone should have skin in the game, but a far more fairer approach


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    #1069
    fret_wimp2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭fret_wimp2


    LeineGlas wrote: »
    The "obsession" is driven by the way people are treated by landlords.

    It's galling to be lining the pockets of the wealthy when in theory your salary could be going towards funding your own property purchase.

    Why should 40% of my salary go to someone who happens possess excess property when 25% of my salary could fund the purchase of my own property?

    Because the person who has a 2nd property could have worked hard to get it and this is their financial planning in operation, and you need a place to live.

    Or because life deals some a better (or worse depending on perspective) hand in some areas, maybe they came into a house through death of a relative.

    The why is irrelevant. We do the best with what we get.
    I do a hell of a lot better than my parents from a financial point of view, through lots of hard work, study, saving and being very prudent with money. I cut my cloth accordingly and bought what I could afford, sacrificed some things in order to have lower debt. Others I know didnt. They have a nicer home or are in a stereotypically better location but with multiples of my debt, that's their choice, and I'm happy with mine.

    I hope my kids have it much better than I do now through hard work and building on whatever I can do to help them.

    I know people with similar paths to me up to a point, but then went traveling or just had a ball every weekend for 20 years and saved nothing.
    Should they begrudge me what I have because they rent and can't get a mortgage, based on our life choices ?

    Similarly I know others who ended up with much better properties and financial situation through both good planning and luck. I don't begrudge them any of it.

    If you're renting, it's your issue, not the landlords. The landlord didn't come to your door and strong-arm you into renting their place.

    Take some responsibility and shrug off some of the bitterness.


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    #1070
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    joeharte123 wrote: »
    True. In the UK, in comparison established urban houses, 'new build' houses are among the cheapest on the market. A developer builds uniform 3 bed semi detached houses on a plot of land, young couples buy them up, raise their children with the aim to move out later in life.

    In Ireland, 'new build' houses seem to be the among most expensive in an area, leaving young people with heavy debt of mortgage repayments each month. An obvious solution to this would be to build more houses, relaxing the demand on these new built homes and therefore reducing the prices to a more sustainable and manageable level.

    Whats the current price of a new build in London?


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    #1071
    joeharte123
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭joeharte123


    limnam wrote: »
    Whats the current price of a new build in London?

    By London I'm guessing you're talking about its surrounding areas as London is already built up? The same applies here, Dublin's house prices are always more expensive. London is defined as a Global City so although it would makes sense to directly compare Dublin with London, it would be an inaccurate comparison.

    Have a look elsewhere in UK, you'll find some sweet deals!


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    #1072
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    joeharte123 wrote: »

    Have a look elsewhere in UK, you'll find some sweet deals!


    Same in Ireland

    I saw a house on daft there for 27k recently

    needed a bit of work.

    :)


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    #1073
    Figel Narage
    Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭Figel Narage


    joeharte123 wrote: »
    By London I'm guessing you're talking about its surrounding areas as London is already built up? The same applies here, Dublin's house prices are always more expensive. London is defined as a Global City so although it would makes sense to directly compare Dublin with London, it would be an inaccurate comparison.

    Have a look elsewhere in UK, you'll find some sweet deals!

    Slightly outside London I have seen some surprising low prices. I feel as if the tolerance of someone in the London outer commuter areas is alot higher then in Dublin, willing to travel longer hours but we'll probably get there if public transport gets better


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    #1074
    antimatterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭antimatterx


    The national broadband plan is going to help majorly. When you have top broadband even at rural locations, people will leave the expensive cities.


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    #1075
    joeharte123
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭joeharte123


    limnam wrote: »
    Same in Ireland

    I saw a house on daft there for 27k recently

    needed a bit of work.

    :)

    Banks are reluctant to lend money for renovations as they're only LTV. i.e. we will give you the money AFTER you've completed the work on the house :confused:


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    #1076
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    joeharte123 wrote: »
    Banks are reluctant to lend money for renovations as they're only LTV. i.e. we will give you the money AFTER you've completed the work on the house :confused:


    I was half joking.

    The point was if you're happy to go outside Dublin there's fairly reasonably priced houses/apartments

    The problem is the vast majority want to be in Dublin or don't want to commute


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    #1077
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,631 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Lux23 wrote: »
    They never got rent allowance or whatever it was back then, as they worked full-time but got a council house in a private estate after ten years on the list in 1990 - they were extremely lucky to get it and it was a lovely home to grow up in and it was great that the option was available - it still should be! They tried and failed to get a mortgage as well, but my Dad's precarious health always went against him and he was considered too old by the time they had the deposit together. An awful lot of bad luck especially when I compare them to their brothers and sisters who all have their own homes with the same level of education and in some cases they didn't even work.

    It still doesn't take away from the fact that they worked hard throughout their life, nobody who owes their home is necessarily working any harder.

    Sorry to hear about your da,

    I'm not being smart but I think you said yourself there was an awful lot of bad luck for you folks , This can happen to some people ,
    But you can't call people who worked hard and did not have bad look privileged ,

    Privilege is getting special treatment , there is middle ground between bad luck where you cant get a mortgage and people who are privileged and get a house handed to them ,


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    #1078
    joeharte123
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭joeharte123


    limnam wrote: »
    I was half joking.

    The point was if you're happy to go outside Dublin there's fairly reasonably priced houses/apartments

    The problem is the vast majority want to be in Dublin or don't want to commute

    I suppose they want to live in Dublin or commuter towns around Dublin as the majority of jobs are there. Even at that, others just want to live in Dublin as it’s where they feel happiest. I agree with you if you go beyond Dublin houses are cheaper; most people don’t want to live in Cavan, Longford etc. apart from those people that grew up there! And that’s nothing against the area, it’s to do with so many factors such as transport, amenities..


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    #1079
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    joeharte123 wrote: »
    I suppose they want to live in Dublin or commuter towns around Dublin as the majority of jobs are there. Even at that, others just want to live in Dublin as it’s where they feel happiest. I agree with you if you go beyond Dublin houses are cheaper; most people don’t want to live in Cavan, Longford etc. apart from those people that grew up there! And that’s nothing against the area, it’s to do with so many factors such as transport, amenities..

    The same goes for London and people end up paying crazy money commuting into central london for work etc.

    It sounds like our lack of flexibility here might be causing us some of our own problems.


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    #1080
    beanyb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭beanyb


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Sorry to hear about your da,

    I'm not being smart but I think you said yourself there was an awful lot of bad luck for you folks , This can happen to some people ,
    But you can't call people who worked hard and did not have bad look privileged ,

    Privilege is getting special treatment , there is middle ground between bad luck where you cant get a mortgage and people who are privileged and get a house handed to them ,

    Privilege isn't only about getting special treatment. It is also a structural issue where you have easier access to good schools, jobs, and therefore to money than other people. It doesn't mean you didn't work hard but it means there were some obstacles that you didn't have to overcome to get your house that some others could never even dream of.

    Inherited wealth that gives some children an advantage over others whose parents couldn't afford to own their own is one of these structures.


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    #1081
    fret_wimp2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭fret_wimp2


    beanyb wrote: »
    Privilege isn't only about getting special treatment. It is also a structural issue where you have easier access to good schools, jobs, and therefore to money than other people. It doesn't mean you didn't work hard but it means there were some obstacles that you didn't have to overcome to get your house that some others could never even dream of.

    Inherited wealth that gives some children an advantage over others whose parents couldn't afford to own their own is one of these structures.

    There's no possible way everyone can get the exact same start and legs up in life.

    I know people who through luck and circumstance have better jobs, more money, 2nd properties and other benefits I don't have, some they worked hard for, some given to them. I don't begrudge any of it.

    I'm better off than my parents thanks to their hard work to give me a good life and education and a shed load of hard work, saving, cutting cloth to measure and not taking on more debt than necessary on my part. I hope my kids are much better off than I and I'll help any way I can.

    To be bitter at the world for chance oppertunities they have gotten is akin to shouting at rainclouds.

    In Ireland for most people, the gap between the well off and ordinary folk is not nearly as wide as in most of the world.

    Work with what you have and stop looking around at what others have and you haven't


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