How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

LeineGlas · 03-07-2020 9:08am

Cyrus wrote: »

How privileged you are to have bought and paid for your own house ? It’s not privilege it’s hard work

If you're in a position to own a house you are in a priveleged position.

You are deluded if you think "hard work" is the only thing that distinguishes you from people who can't afford to purchase a house.

bidiots · 03-07-2020 9:36am

LeineGlas wrote: »

If you're in a position to own a house you are in a priveleged position.

You are deluded if you think "hard work" is the only thing that distinguishes you from people who can't afford to purchase a house.

Highly insulting to insinuate to all those who have worked their socks off to put a roof over their head as - 'privileged'.

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2020 9:41am

LeineGlas wrote: »

If you're in a position to own a house you are in a priveleged position.

You are deluded if you think "hard work" is the only thing that distinguishes you from people who can't afford to purchase a house.

Well in Ireland you have a right to an Education its not a privilege and if you have an education you have the tools if you use the m wisely to enable yourself to own a house,

Yes there a cases where people have something happen that hold them back but I certainly would not say its a privilege in this country to be able to own a house ,

A privilege is a special right or advantage, I can't see how you equate with someone working hard there whole life a special right ?

Pkiernan · 03-07-2020 9:49am

I think there's a bit of a snowflake mentality out there.

In the late 90s I lived in San Francisco which had a 99.7% occupancy rate.
We worked hard and paid $1800 a month for a 2 bedroom apt in the Richmond district.

Much more expensive than current day Dublin, and wages were not astronomical then.

There's no right to home ownership and people their 20s who want to buy a house need to sacrifice.

Wanderer78 · 03-07-2020 9:54am

There's clearly something fundamentally failing in our housing markets globally, deregulation of the financial sector which flooded the world with credit, which in turn ramped up land and property prices has failed, particularly for younger generations, couple that with low wage inflation and increasing worker insecurities, and heuston we have a problem!

Older generations certainly had to work hard for their homes, but a bit luck was also on their side, asset prices weren't as inflated as today, making it easier for a single income family to be able to get access to the housing market, but this was still a stressful ordeal, but spare a thought for the younger generations, life is a bit different now, our economies are far different. Sadly those older generations that advocate for ever increasing house prices, are advocating for their own kids and grandkids increasing housing insecurities, but their logic can be understood. Oh there's also a matter of older generations having easier access to publically owned houses combared to nowadays, but that's another matter.

Wanderer78 · 03-07-2020 9:58am

yourdeadwright wrote:

Well in Ireland you have a right to an Education its not a privilege and if you have an education you have the tools if you use the m wisely to enable yourself to own a house,

This isn't necessarily true, we now have a growing number of well educated people unable to gain access to the market due to previously mentioned issues, mainly ever rising asset prices, and government policies designed to do do, low wage inflation and increasing worker insecurities

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2020 10:00am

Pkiernan wrote: »

I think there's a bit of a snowflake mentality out there.

In the late 90s I lived in San Francisco which had a 99.7% occupancy rate.
We worked hard and paid $1800 a month for a 2 bedroom apt in the Richmond district.

Much more expensive than current day Dublin, and wages were not astronomical then.

There's no right to home ownership and people their 20s who want to buy a house need to sacrifice.

Its great to see young people do well and you really want to see them achieve goals like buying there own houses, but what bugs me is the lack of sacrifice or what they think is sacrifice,

Obviously people can do what they like with there own money but marketing has never been better selling young people things they don't need for prices you would not believe,
I blame social media and the youth trying to keep up with influencers but that's a whole different argument,

pwurple · 03-07-2020 10:03am

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Why?

I was unfortunate enough to graduate into the 2008 crisis. It took me absolutely ages to get on my feet. I couldn't afford to travel anywhere in my early twenties. I didn't graduate until I was 22, then I scrabbled around in minimum wage jobs trying to upskill and did a Master's and changed industry twice before saying 'feck it' and heading abroad aged 30, to work and travel.

Yup. I was unfortunate enough to graduate into the dot com bubble with a technology degree. This happens, and I have no doubt had I graduated 3 years earlier it would have been better. I cut grass and trimmed trees as a landscaper for 2 years. Fun times. Bought my first house in 2007, in the boom. But sure, all water under the bridge as they say. We're all in the same boat.

OEP · 03-07-2020 10:45am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its great to see young people do well and you really want to see them achieve goals like buying there own houses, but what bugs me is the lack of sacrifice or what they think is sacrifice,

Obviously people can do what they like with there own money but marketing has never been better selling young people things they don't need for prices you would not believe,
I blame social media and the youth trying to keep up with influencers but that's a whole different argument,

It is completely different now for younger people than it was, in so many different ways. Younger people now have had more comfortably upbringings for the most part, more luxuries, holidays and all of that. But at the same time, you can't say that it isn't much harder for a young person to get a house now than it was 20/30 years ago. So younger people now have had it much easier in some aspects but when it comes to housing, it's much more difficult.

For example, I'm apparently in the top 5% of earners in the country. Yet could only get a mortgage for a three bed house in the outskirts, or less desirable areas, of Dublin. That was not the case for my parents.

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2020 10:57am

OEP wrote: »

It is completely different now for younger people than it was, in so many different ways. Younger people now have had more comfortably upbringings for the most part, more luxuries, holidays and all of that. But at the same time, you can't say that it isn't much harder for a young person to get a house now than it was 20/30 years ago. So younger people now have had it much easier in some aspects but when it comes to housing, it's much more difficult.

For example, I'm apparently in the top 5% of earners in the country. Yet could only get a mortgage for a three bed house in the outskirts, or less desirable areas, of Dublin. That was not the case for my parents.

So you earn over 100 grand a year and could only afford a house in the less desirable part of Dublin ?

You must count anything off Ailesbury Road as less desirable ,(obviously a joke)

OEP · 03-07-2020 11:53am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So you earn over 100 grand a year and could only afford a house in the less desirable part of Dublin ?

You must count anything off Ailesbury Road as less desirable ,(obviously a joke)

No, just under 90 grand - which still puts me in the top 5% (but the real earners don't make their money from a salary, so this top 5% is nonsense really). So I could get a mortgage for 315k + deposit so let's say 350k, which isn't a lot really. A three bed semi in say Rathfarnham, Ballyboden etc is probably 400 - 450k?

limnam · 03-07-2020 12:08pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So you earn over 100 grand a year and could only afford a house in the less desirable part of Dublin ?

You must count anything off Ailesbury Road as less desirable ,(obviously a joke)

on 100k a year the bank will give you what? 350k?

Now you're in dolphins barn.

You've made it :pac:

03-07-2020 12:13pm

limnam wrote: »

on 100k a year the bank will give you what? 350k?

Now you're in dolphins barn.

You've made it :pac:

Next door to a family on HAP with a bigger house and a better lifestyle

Wanderer78 · 03-07-2020 12:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Next door to a family on HAP with a bigger house and a better lifestyle

so is the issue with social welfare, or the price of housing and working conditions?

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2020 12:18pm

limnam wrote: »

on 100k a year the bank will give you what? 350k?

Now you're in dolphins barn.

You've made it :pac:

Over 5 % of Irish workers make 100 grand a year

So there for if he was in the top 5 % he would make over 100 grand and you'd assume have a decent wedge of saving,

limnam · 03-07-2020 12:19pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so is the issue with social welfare, or the price of housing and working conditions?

The "market" sets the price of housing.

I'm not sure what working conditions have got to do with anything.

If you need to earn more you need to find a job that pays more.

The median house price should be aprox 3.5 times the median wage of a full time worker.

I'd say we're miles off that. That's a problem.

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2020 12:20pm

OEP wrote: »

No, just under 90 grand - which still puts me in the top 5% (but the real earners don't make their money from a salary, so this top 5% is nonsense really). So I could get a mortgage for 315k + deposit so let's say 350k, which isn't a lot really. A three bed semi in say Rathfarnham, Ballyboden etc is probably 400 - 450k?

In a report last year they said over 5 %of Irish workers where on 100 grand so I assumed when you said you where in the top 5 % you where making more than 100 grand,

But what you say above is of course correct,

limnam · 03-07-2020 12:20pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Over 5 % of Irish workers make 100 grand a year

So there for if he was in the top 5 % he would make over 100 grand and you'd assume have a decent wedge of saving,

Based on his salary he gets a house in dolphins barn/tallaght etc

It's not exactly alysbury rd.

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2020 12:23pm

limnam wrote: »

Based on his salary he gets a house in dolphins barn/tallaght etc

It's not exactly alysbury rd.

He said he was in the top 5 % which would be over 100grand a year ,

Aylesbury road was joke ,

Lux23 · 03-07-2020 12:24pm

Cyrus wrote: »

How privileged you are to have bought and paid for your own house ? It’s not privilege it’s hard work

Like I said lots of people work hard and don't own their home and can end up paying a hell of a lot more in rent over their lifetime.

I would include my parents in that and they both worked full-time from their teens until in my Dad's case he died, and my Mum is still working in her 60s while caring full-time for her 32 year profoundly autistic son. That's hard work, mate - the rest is a lot of good luck.

Cyrus · 03-07-2020 12:37pm

Lux23 wrote: »

Like I said lots of people work hard and don't own their home and can end up paying a hell of a lot more in rent over their lifetime.

I would include my parents in that and they both worked full-time from their teens until in my Dad's case he died, and my Mum is still working in her 60s while caring full-time for her 32 year profoundly autistic son. That's hard work, mate - the rest is a lot of good luck.

if you parents were both working full time and couldnt afford to buy a house i would assume, unless you are going to correct me that they were in social housing and paying a subsidised rent.

unless you would have us believe that they rented at the open market their whole lives?

Wanderer78 · 03-07-2020 12:48pm

limnam wrote: »

The "market" sets the price of housing.

I'm not sure what working conditions have got to do with anything.

If you need to earn more you need to find a job that pays more.

The median house price should be aprox 3.5 times the median wage of a full time worker.

I'd say we're miles off that. That's a problem.

im finding it disturbing to still hear people talk about 'the market and its abilities', including professionals, some of which advise our governments, again, the abilities of the market to provide us with all of our needs is a figment of our imaginations. we ve been playing this 'the market' game for a number of decades now, its clearly failing, maybe its to do with the fact our economies are not perfectly linear always moving towards equilibrium, but in fact are a perfect example of 'complex dynamic systems', and humans are not 'rationally expecting' because we re simply not rational beings!

working conditions are a critical element in all of this, with the deunionisation of the workforce and overall reduction in collective bargaining, this has lead to a reduction in wage inflation, again couple that with rapid asset price inflation, we truly do have a very serious problem!

you can job hop all you like, but if the above conditions remain, you could simply be pissing against the wind in trying to gain access to the housing market. of course there will be exceptions to the rule and some will eventually gain access to the housing market via this method, but again, we re now in a situation whereby many well educated people simply cannot get access to the market, i.e. these people are doing everything in their power to do so, continually educating and training themselves, and trying to save as much as possible, but also trying to live, paying rent etc, and cannot. the longer this goes on for them, and the older they get, the less likely they ll be able to gain access to the market.

Ush1 · 03-07-2020 12:56pm

limnam wrote: »

Based on his salary he gets a house in dolphins barn/tallaght etc

It's not exactly alysbury rd.

I earn over 100k and live in Tallaght, we can be neighbours.:D

limnam · 03-07-2020 1:00pm

Ush1 wrote: »

I earn over 100k and live in Tallaght, we can be neighbours.:D

Biggest middle class housing estate in Europe apparently.

No problem with it

limnam · 03-07-2020 1:02pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im finding it disturbing to still hear people talk about 'the market and its abilities', including professionals, some of which advise our governments, again, the abilities of the market to provide us with all of our needs is a figment of our imaginations. we ve been playing this 'the market' game for a number of decades now, its clearly failing, maybe its to do with the fact our economies are not perfectly linear always moving towards equilibrium, but in fact are a perfect example of 'complex dynamic systems', and humans are not 'rationally expecting' because we re simply not rational beings!

working conditions are a critical element in all of this, with the deunionisation of the workforce and overall reduction in collective bargaining, this has lead to a reduction in wage inflation, again couple that with rapid asset price inflation, we truly do have a very serious problem!

you can job hop all you like, but if the above conditions remain, you could simply be pissing against the wind in trying to gain access to the housing market. of course there will be exceptions to the rule and some will eventually gain access to the housing market via this method, but again, we re now in a situation whereby many well educated people simply cannot get access to the market, i.e. these people are doing everything in their power to do so, continually educating and training themselves, and trying to save as much as possible, but also trying to live, paying rent etc, and cannot. the longer this goes on for them, and the older they get, the less likely they ll be able to gain access to the market.

When you can find people to give you land for little or nothing.

Builders who will work for little or nothing

Insurance companies who will charge them little or nothing

A government who will take less of their taxes etc

You'll have solved everything

Figel Narage · 03-07-2020 1:05pm

Pretty depressing how getting the gold plated salary of 100K a year means you can't really buy a house in area's our parents would have bought on the same salary back in their day.

Wanderer78 · 03-07-2020 1:10pm

limnam wrote: »

When you can find people to give you land for little or nothing.

Builders who will work for little or nothing

Insurance companies who will charge them little or nothing

A government who will take less of their taxes etc

You'll have solved everything

so how about a land value tax?

how about encouragement of unionisation of the workforce, including in construction

a large proportion of the activities of the insurance industry has an overall negative effect on society, simply extracting wealth and offering very little in return, also noting, some major insurers were in fact bailed out

taxation is a major problem, the fact over the last few decades, it has been moved from more wealthier plutocratic elements towards the average worker, expect them to eventually get pissed off!

Lux23 · 03-07-2020 1:11pm

Cyrus wrote: »

if you parents were both working full time and couldnt afford to buy a house i would assume, unless you are going to correct me that they were in social housing and paying a subsidised rent.

unless you would have us believe that they rented at the open market their whole lives?

They never got rent allowance or whatever it was back then, as they worked full-time but got a council house in a private estate after ten years on the list in 1990 - they were extremely lucky to get it and it was a lovely home to grow up in and it was great that the option was available - it still should be! They tried and failed to get a mortgage as well, but my Dad's precarious health always went against him and he was considered too old by the time they had the deposit together. An awful lot of bad luck especially when I compare them to their brothers and sisters who all have their own homes with the same level of education and in some cases they didn't even work.

It still doesn't take away from the fact that they worked hard throughout their life, nobody who owes their home is necessarily working any harder.

limnam · 03-07-2020 1:16pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

how about encouragement of unionisation of the workforce, including in construction

I'd like to decrease the cost of building. Not increase :pac:

The last thing this country needs is more unionised work forces. It's bad enough as it is

Wanderer78 · 03-07-2020 1:19pm

limnam wrote: »

I'd like to decrease the cost of building. Not increase :pac:

The last thing this country needs is more unionised work forces. It's bad enough as it is

and possibly decreasing the wages within the construction industry, and since markets dont occur in a vacuum, are you will to possibly take a wage cut?

unionization is rapidly declining, it has since we moved to more neoliberial/neo classical economics

How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

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