How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

awec

awec wrote: »

nox, remember that when you build your mcmansion up your boreen that you'll be able to do so is thanks to the taxpayers in Dublin, Cork and other large-tax-take counties paying their high taxes and seeing so much of their money sent west and south to subsidise the lifestyles of people like yourself..............

If he's earning a fair wedge he's paying as much high tax as anyone in Dublin surely?

Never looked at this thread. How much would a standard deposit be for a first time buyer? Like percentage wise I suppose or what you guys had?

gourcuff

awec wrote: »

nox, remember that when you build your mcmansion up your boreen that you'll be able to do so is thanks to the taxpayers in Dublin, Cork and other large-tax-take counties paying their high taxes and seeing so much of their money sent west and south to subsidise the lifestyles of people like yourself.

Do you think it's unfair that low earning counties continue to enjoy spending more than they earn while the high earning counties are still expected to carry them while being fleeced with tax?

We have a progressive tax system, it means those who can afford to pay more do so. When we spend the money, we are also nice enough to ensure that rural counties are not expected to be self-sufficient.

Similar to how the big EU countries must have felt for decades subsidising backward little Ireland until we became a tax haven?

Most people i know in Dublin are well educated migrants who moved from other parts of Ireland to Dublin - mcwilliams refers to it often - the primary force of the cultural takeover of south Dublin has been the emergence of a rural professional class that has come to dominate Dublin’s professions


these people are more than happy in the main to see transfers to the areas they are from. In my experience its only the native howiyas who it really bothers.

awec

Augeo wrote: »

If he's earning a fair wedge he's paying as much high tax as anyone in Dublin surely?

Proportionally he enjoys a nicer share of government money. Like most rural counties, they enjoy things like roads, internet etc thanks to the money sent by the few counties that make up the bulk of Ireland's tax take.

Dublin generates over 50% of Ireland's tax, but definitely doesn't see 50% of the benefit. Maybe we should look at lowering the tax rate for those who live in Dublin, and raising it in counties that Dublin (and other counties with large tax-takes) currently have to carry?

Things like property tax hits areas of large population disproportionately as the high demand results in higher values. Maybe property tax should be changed so that rural dwellers pay a larger share?

Since we're on the subject of people "carrying" others and all.

Springy Turf

Springy Turf wrote: »

He is benefitting from a very high (proportionally) government spend.

But he's paying the same rate of tax as anyone in Dublin ....... also I think he's in Galway, not the likes of Donegal or Leitrim.

gourcuff wrote: »

......... In my experience its only the native howiyas who it really bothers.

Most definitely, those who often pay low tax themselves as they are on low wages and have the hand out for the free forever home.

awec wrote: »

.........

Since we're on the subject of people "carrying" others and all.

You're a Dub I take it, me ole flower..........

awec

awec wrote: »

Proportionally he enjoys a nicer share of government money. Like most rural counties, they enjoy things like roads, internet etc thanks to the money sent by the few counties that make up the bulk of Ireland's tax take.

Dublin generates over 50% of Ireland's tax, but definitely doesn't see 50% of the benefit. Maybe we should look at lowering the tax rate for those who live in Dublin, and raising it in counties that Dublin (and other counties with large tax-takes) currently have to carry?

Things like property tax hits areas of large population disproportionately as the high demand results in higher values. Maybe property tax should be changed so that rural dwellers pay a larger share?

Since we're on the subject of people "carrying" others and all.

To be fair that's a bit of a rabbit hole.
Nox pointed out quite correctly that folk on low wages pay low tax.

awec

Augeo wrote: »

But he's paying the same rate of tax as anyone in Dublin ....... also I think he's in Galway, not the likes of Donegal or Leitrim.



Most definitely, those who often pay low tax themselves as they are on low wages and have the hand out for the free forever home.



You're a Dub I take it, me ole flower..........

Nope!

Wanderer78

As the normal folk argue amongst themselves, blaming each other, the plutocrates walk off with the spoils!

guyfawkes5

Augeo wrote: »

If he's earning a fair wedge he's paying as much high tax as anyone in Dublin surely?

It's possible but statistically unlikely that he's paying less tax as a whole (which the thrust of the conversation has been about) than a like-for-like counterpart in Dublin. He's also undoubtedly seeing a better per-capita return on his taxes if he's living in a rural county.

As an example, this article mentions how 'equalisation' is used in property tax to subsidise rural areas (and how angry DCC are about it).

The point about this is that some might get very hot and bothered about others being on the receiving end of supposed privilege at their expense, but often we are all recipients of leg ups at some point in our lives.

awec

Augeo wrote: »

To be fair that's a bit of a rabbit hole.
Nox pointed out quite correctly that folk on low wages pay low tax.

As they would under any system. There will always be people who monetarily contribute little to the state.

I think our tax system could be tweaked, it's a bit inch-wide-mile-deep. But I think there's a big discussion around how we spend our taxes, and whether or not we're getting value for money. And I am not particularly talking about welfare!

limnam

awec wrote: »

nox, remember that when you build your mcmansion up your boreen that you'll be able to do so is thanks to the taxpayers in Dublin, Cork and other large-tax-take counties paying their high taxes and seeing so much of their money sent west and south to subsidise the lifestyles of people like yourself.

Do you think it's unfair that low earning counties continue to enjoy spending more than they earn while the high earning counties are still expected to carry them while being fleeced with tax?

We have a progressive tax system, it means those who can afford to pay more do so. When we spend the money, we are also nice enough to ensure that rural counties are not expected to be self-sufficient.

I'll remember that when I tot my mechanics bill for pot hole damage

Ush1

gourcuff wrote: »

Similar to how the big EU countries must have felt for decades subsidising backward little Ireland until we became a tax haven?

Most people i know in Dublin are well educated migrants who moved from other parts of Ireland to Dublin - mcwilliams refers to it often - the primary force of the cultural takeover of south Dublin has been the emergence of a rural professional class that has come to dominate Dublin’s professions


these people are more than happy in the main to see transfers to the areas they are from. In my experience its only the native howiyas who it really bothers.

Maybe for one generation, but their children are born and raised in Dublin.

Interesting to mention McWilliams also and Dublin subsidising the rest of the country:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/david-mcwilliams-dublin-generates-56-of-irish-tax-but-can-t-keep-a-cent-of-it-1.3682876?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fdavid-mcwilliams-dublin-generates-56-of-irish-tax-but-can-t-keep-a-cent-of-it-1.3682876

Graham

awec wrote: »

Dublin generates over 50% of Ireland's tax, but definitely doesn't see 50% of the benefit. Maybe we should look at lowering the tax rate for those who live in Dublin, and raising it in counties that Dublin (and other counties with large tax-takes) currently have to carry?

Or increase the tax rate for those living in Dublin. Incentivise better distribution of population/commerce around the state.

Geuze

Cyrus wrote: »

Low earners aren’t taxed very much here

Presume it’s 25k each ?

More like 40k + 10k, mix of pensions, wages, and self-employment.

Geuze

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

Exactly my point, lower earners pay little tax while higher earners are expected to carrying the majority on lower wages by being fleeced with tax

Yes, it is true that our income tax system is very progressive, if not the most progressive.

Geuze

Deleted User wrote: »

Never looked at this thread. How much would a standard deposit be for a first time buyer? Like percentage wise I suppose or what you guys had?

The CBI publish the data, it was posted earlier.

Hold on until I get it for you.

https://centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/household-credit-market-report/household-credit-market-report-2019.pdf?sfvrsn=6

Geuze

Deleted User wrote: »

Never looked at this thread. How much would a standard deposit be for a first time buyer? Like percentage wise I suppose or what you guys had?

Here are Original LTV from the CBI data:

FTB = 80% approx, so 20% deposit

Typical Dublin deposit = 80k, outside Dublin = 50k


SSB = 68%, so 32% deposit.

Typical Dublin deposit = 190k-200k, outside Dublin = 115k

awec

awec wrote: »

nox, remember that when you build your mcmansion up your boreen that you'll be able to do so is thanks to the taxpayers in Dublin, Cork and other large-tax-take counties paying their high taxes and seeing so much of their money sent west and south to subsidise the lifestyles of people like yourself.

Do you think it's unfair that low earning counties continue to enjoy spending more than they earn while the high earning counties are still expected to carry them while being fleeced with tax?

We have a progressive tax system, it means those who can afford to pay more do so. When we spend the money, we are also nice enough to ensure that rural counties are not expected to be self-sufficient.

This is of course rubbish, people in cities get all the benefit of taxation in Ireland. You won’t see a pot hole in Dublin. Public transport everywhere, sewage and water paid for, lower electricity costs, lower BB costs etc etc. Property tax is naturally higher due to higher value properties.

In the country I will pay for my esb connection, pay higher esb rates, pay water charges, pay for my own sewage, pay for all my own transport (all of which is heavily taxed), the “boreen” as you say we live on is maintained by us out of our own pocket, the road was widened and corners taken out by ourselves and we had to contribute to the resurfacing costs when the council surfaced it, we don’t have wired BB etc etc.

Also my county does not benefit a cent from Dublin taxation and as I work in the city your so called tax contribution of people in the city is actually from a country person in my and in the case of galway in general 50% of the workforce commute in from the county or surrounding counties.

Dublin has a massive workforce also commuting in from outside the city but of course these nonsense claims which try to make it look like rural Ireland is being supported when in fact it is massively underfunded never take this sort of thing into account.

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, it is true that our income tax system is very progressive, if not the most progressive.

You say that like it’s a good thing, it is very far from it. It’s a disgrace how much tax even medium earners pay never mind high earners.

Progressive taxation is anything but “progressive” it’s legalised theft.

Geuze

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

You say that like it’s a good thing, it is very far from it. It’s a disgrace how much tax even medium earners pay never mind high earners.

Progressive taxation is anything but “progressive” it’s legalised theft.

I did not mean to imply any support, or opposition, for the progressivity of the Irish income tax system.

I was merely confirming that we have among the most progressive income tax systems in the world.

My opinion is that the 35k entry point to the top MTR is crazy.

It should be 90k-100k.

L1011

General taxation discussion should be taken to a more appropriate forum

Wanderer78

L1011 wrote:

General taxation discussion should be taken to a more appropriate forum

Even though I appreciate what you mean and what you're doing, taxation is another element of this problem, this issue is extremely complex, with multiple layers to its creation and current unresolved state. Thank you

Ush1

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

This is of course rubbish, people in cities get all the benefit of taxation in Ireland. You won’t see a pot hole in Dublin. Public transport everywhere, sewage and water paid for, lower electricity costs, lower BB costs etc etc. Property tax is naturally higher due to higher value properties.

In the country I will pay for my esb connection, pay higher esb rates, pay water charges, pay for my own sewage, pay for all my own transport (all of which is heavily taxed), the “boreen” as you say we live on is maintained by us out of our own pocket, the road was widened and corners taken out by ourselves and we had to contribute to the resurfacing costs when the council surfaced it, we don’t have wired BB etc etc.

Also my county does not benefit a cent from Dublin taxation and as I work in the city your so called tax contribution of people in the city is actually from a country person in my and in the case of galway in general 50% of the workforce commute in from the county or surrounding counties.

Dublin has a massive workforce also commuting in from outside the city but of course these nonsense claims which try to make it look like rural Ireland is being supported when in fact it is massively underfunded never take this sort of thing into account.



You say that like it’s a good thing, it is very far from it. It’s a disgrace how much tax even medium earners pay never mind high earners.

Progressive taxation is anything but “progressive” it’s legalised theft.

:pac::pac:

Claw Hammer

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

pay higher esb rates, t.

The ESB charge everybody the same for a unit of electricity!

Cyrus

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The ESB charge everybody the same for a unit of electricity!

arent there rural and urban rates?

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The ESB charge everybody the same for a unit of electricity!

Cyrus wrote: »

arent there rural and urban rates?

Rates are the same but we pay a higher standing charge rurally.

Cuddlesworth

Savanna Refined Symbolism wrote: »

This is of course rubbish, people in cities get all the benefit of taxation in Ireland. You won’t see a pot hole in Dublin. Public transport everywhere, sewage and water paid for, lower electricity costs, lower BB costs etc etc. Property tax is naturally higher due to higher value properties.

How in gods name does this keep coming up over and over again. Rural community are are subsidised by urban community, that's not in doubt, council funding and taxable income within those regions is readily available online.

Its costs money to provide and maintain any service, either rural or urban and when you space out dwellings, those costs drastically increase.

There are 250 Houses in my estate and probably around 1000 people. The Roads in the estate maintained by the council, would average roughly 1 person per meter. The transformer in the estate maintained by ESB services all 100 people with minimal resistance or voltage drop. Cable TV/Phone services, 1 unit within the estate with a potential of 250 customers attached, all within reasonable distances to that unit to provide services. Water/Sewage, all cheaper to install properly maintaining pressure or the correct degree of fall, all significantly cheaper to maintain in terms of per meter cost per user. The buses that travel through a few kilometres of road, service tens of thousands of potential users.

Since I'm near the edge of Dublin, you don't have to go far to start getting into one off rural housing. And the services available drop off a cliff, 5 kilometers away there are no buses, no water/sewage, no real broadband, the roads go downhill. Because the propertys are spaced out, long roads serving handfulls of houses.

AndrewJRenko

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Inheritance tax is a load of **** ,

I work my bollox off to get what I have and i'm taxed on it.

When I die if I want to leave my hard work to my children why in gods name should it be taxed again,

Because preserving inequality across generations isn't generally a good thing.

There is a fairly generous threshold, so those who pay tax have already done fairly well out of any inheritance.

CBear1993 wrote: »

What countries in the world do you not have to pay all this BS back to the government? We’re a relatively safe, grand country to live in. But always believe it is one of the most corrupt in the world in politics and the economy.

We're really not one of the most corrupt in the world.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

How in gods name does this keep coming up over and over again. Rural community are are subsidised by urban community, that's not in doubt, council funding and taxable income within those regions is readily available online.

It's also worth remembering that rural Ireland avoids paying for social housing by building one-off housing, which has no Part V contribution, compared to housing in a town or city. Another subsidy of rural Ireland by the rest of us.